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Palpatine vs Mace

Mace legitimately won the saber duel.

Did he actually hold back Palpatine's lightning, or did Sidious throw the force fight?

Neither. Mace couldn't handle the power Sidious was putting out. Then Anakin got there. We'll never know what the outcome would have been, otherwise.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Neither. Mace couldn't handle the power Sidious was putting out. Then Anakin got there. We'll never know what the outcome would have been, otherwise.

I'm pretty sure Mace had Sidious beat and was about to deliver the killing blow. Even Sidious was surprised so I'm not sure he could have pulled something out of his ass at that moment.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Neither. Mace couldn't handle the power Sidious was putting out. Then Anakin got there. We'll never know what the outcome would have been, otherwise.
Very good answer.

Mace was the superior duelist although it took him some time to defeat him. Force wise however, Sidious overpowers him. Sidious allowed himself to be deep fried to turn Anakin.

ive never really agreed with that. it doesnt make much sense that a narcissistic and shallow man such as sideous would allow irreparable damage to be dealt on himself.

Wasn't there some nonsense about a superconducting loop in the saber causing the lightning and dark side energy to be reversed upon Sidious, revealing his true form??

Don't know about the true form, but the superconducting loop is true. It's part of Vaapad.

Originally posted by KingD19
Wasn't there some nonsense about a superconducting loop in the saber causing the lightning and dark side energy to be reversed upon Sidious, revealing his true form??

What about the theory that he needed Mace to win so that Anakin could make his final ascent to the Dark Side?

Originally posted by akpwnz
What about the theory that he needed Mace to win so that Anakin could make his final ascent to the Dark Side?

Originally posted by akpwnz
What about the theory that he needed Mace to win so that Anakin could make his final ascent to the Dark Side? Arguable. Palpatine did lose the lightsaber duel due to Mace's shatterpoint, but he was fudging weakness during the Force contest. He wasn't "too weak".

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Arguable. Palpatine did lose the lightsaber duel due to Mace's shatterpoint, but he was fudging weakness during the Force contest. He wasn't "too weak". Was it actually stated that the reason Mace won the duel is because of shatterpoint? I'd always figured that was the reason, but didn't know it had been confirmed.

yes, ROTS novelization. Mace realized that Sidious's shatterpoint was the slippery windsill or someting like that.

^ Nice.

Originally posted by truejedi
yes, ROTS novelization. Mace realized that Sidious's shatterpoint was the slippery windsill or someting like that.
Are you sure... I swear Palpatine's shatterpoint was Anakin.

you are right. And that ended up not being mentioned as a factor in the actual saber win.

So it was vapaad that gave him the win.

Originally posted by ares834
Are you sure... I swear Palpatine's shatterpoint was Anakin.

"He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the now... And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.

The chosen one was here.

Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish...

That was when Mace finally understood. He had it. The key to final victory. Palpatine's shatterpoint. The absolute shatter-point of the Sith.

The shatterpoint of the dark side itself.

Mace thought, blankly astonished, Palpatine trusts Anakin Skywalker .
..."

From the ROTS Novel, Anakin was the Shatterpoint.

Vapaad made them equals. A fight according to the novel which could have just kept on going.

However I think the key line was in the novel when Mace says "You fight like a Jedi but your NO JEDI". Thats when he kicks the saber from his hand.

I think that means since they were equals on Technique and Power, but Mace had the advantage on experience. Being a Jedi he was on the front lines continuously fighting, whilst how many fights (let alone saber fights) did Sidious ever get into.

As for the Force fight, Lucas says Sidious was faking being weak. The novel says his FL it was "beyond Vapaad" and Mace culdnt handle it.
So even though Sidious wasnt in the best position to start using his FL(on his rear) I think he still could have taken it.

I mean id find it very odd if Sidious culdnt defeat Mace with the Force. Because that wuld technically make Mace the most powerful jedi of the time, since Yoda culdnt defeat Palps and Yoda did try his best to defeat him.

I think that Sidious let him self become force fried for PR. He wanted sympathy from the people of the republic, and wanted to tar the jedi name. What better way than to pretend that they had attacked a little old man without cause. Not only that, but also it was a way to persuade Anakin to join the cause.