The (Dr.) Manhattan Project

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marwash22
Intro: For the purposes of this thread, Dr. Manhattan is a megalomaniacal Alien from another galaxy who is bent on world domination.

Notes:

The Marvel and DC universes are one in the same.
Dr. Manhattan has all of the abilities he is known to have.

Scenario: Manhattan has arrived on Earth and declared that, in a weeks time, he will destroy all of Earths citizens. He has already obliterated nearly everyone with superhuman abilities; be they human, mutant or alien.

Somehow, lets just call it PIS, the following people have survived...

Reed Richards
Tony Stark
Hank Pym
Martian Manhunter
Bruce Banner (has full control over his alter ego)
Dr. Doom
Michael Holt
Bruce Wayne
Ray Palmer
John Henry Irons

At their disposal:

Their brains and of course, their respective abilities.
Basic knowledge of what Manhattan is capable of.
Any technology that is NOT of alien origin.

With their collective resources, money is obviously not an issue.

No outside forces are available. This means...
-no Asgardians.
-no Lantern Corp.
-no Silver Surfer
-no Thanos
-no Tribunal
-etc.

Extra note: CIS is off, so they will work together and there is no double crossing or infighting. Ego's remain, but for the most part, they work as a team.

So, within the time of seven days. will they be able to devise a plan to stop or kill Dr. Manhattan? How does it happen? Do any of them survive the encounter?

McNasty996
I'm going to say they can do it within that time period and they
may even be able to recreate the accident that gave him his powers
seeing as there are a couple of people here who are very knowledgeable
in physics but what could completely destroy them is if manhattan chooses to
look into the future and counteract whatever they could plan it all depends if
manhattan actually chooses to do something about it or not as we have seen
that there are somethings that he just accepts and feels he can't do anything about

753
He doesnt really look into the future, past present and future all the same to him, all happening simultaneously.

I think they migh come up with a way to banish or contain him, but it's speculation.

Black bolt z
Well the thing is he knows the future but he doesn't change it.He knew JFK was going to be shot but didn't stop it.If however he is completely hellbent on world domination and would use all of his powers to their fullest extent I don't think they could stop him.

753
Originally posted by Black bolt z
Well the thing is he knows the future but he doesn't change it.He knew JFK was going to be shot but didn't stop it.If however he is completely hellbent on world domination and would use all of his powers to their fullest extent I don't think they could stop him.

He doesn't change it because it's already happened. The future is what it is because he didn't alter it, otherwise it'd be something else and he'd know about it just the same..

rader
Banner, Doom, and Reed are MUCH more intelligent than Ozymandias, and they've all dealt with beings with a similar nature, such as Silver Surfer, Molecule Man, The Beyonder, and Sentry. I'm certain the last 3 would take the majority over Manhattan. Even the Surfer has shown time travel on occasion. Doom would eventually take his powers, and even if he didn't, locking him in the Negative Zone would slow him down enough to give them more time. I think that Reed and Victor could solo this if they needed to.

JakeTheBank
Doom solos.

D_Dude1210
Reed solos.

rader
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Doom solos.
That's what I wanted to say, but I don't want people catching on to the fact that I'm a Doom fanboy. Also, Mahattan's feats aren't too spectacular. He was blowing up Vietcong one at a time. He was also slowed down by something that Reed and Doom could prolly easily get a hold of.

Mshinu
Spite, the blue guy gets stomped.

Lord_Talron
as much as i back dr manhattan on these forums, this is way to many top minds put together.

King Kandy
Start spraying tachyons all over the place and his advantage is negated, then they just figure out a plan and implement it.

cdtm
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Doom solos.

With CIS off?

Unlike Watchman Manhattan, he'll actually do something about his future knowledge.

But what if they try and block his omni-time vision like Ozy did, one may ask? Technically, Dr. Manhattan should've been aware of events just before, and just after his time vision got obstructed. But he just didn't act on it, because it's what he does...

Lord_Talron
that doesnt mean hed kno who did it. he can only see his own timeline.

marwash22
lol, this aint spite!

I made the thread with the thought that it would be a challenge for the group to defeat him. I do think they can do it, but i hardly think any of them can go solo.

Perhaps, Reed, Doom or even Ray could trap him solo, but killing him would probably need to be a group effort.

Lord_Talron
doom would steal his power and then kill him with a thought.

marwash22
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
doom would steal his power and then kill him with a thought. you make it sound so easy. I don't think it would be so easy to steal the powers of someone who is conscious of all things.

Lord_Talron
HE ISNT. HE CAN SEE HIS TIMELINE ONLY. and if doom can disrupt that with tachyons, he wont see it coming. not that he can do anything about it, because : "He doesn't change because it's already happened."

marwash22
I'm not talking about his perception of time or his ability to alter it; I'm referring to his overwhelming grasp of his own mind. That conscious swapping crap aint gonna fly.

Lord_Talron
wut. you said doom has access to any tech that isnt alien. all he needs is his own tech to steal manhattan's powers and then make his head pop once hes powerless

marwash22
Understood. Point is, who's to say that would work on Manhattan; what evidence exists that suggests his powers can be taken away? I'm not certain about this, i just have my doubts...

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by cdtm
With CIS off?

Unlike Watchman Manhattan, he'll actually do something about his future knowledge.

But what if they try and block his omni-time vision like Ozy did, one may ask? Technically, Dr. Manhattan should've been aware of events just before, and just after his time vision got obstructed. But he just didn't act on it, because it's what he does...
I don't think it was like a jedi precog thing that he had. It was more like a fate thing where he was kind of experiencing everything for the first time with no knowledge of the future, but he was also doing it all at the same time so he did know what was going to happen.

Mshinu
It is a simple matter for these guys to shield themselves from Osterman`s senses. Taking him out will be even simpler. This is not the Watchmen world, the tech these guys can whip up in minutes are insanely ahead of what Ozymandias had to play with.

rader
If Doom could take The Beyonder's powers, than Manhattan's would be a walk in the cake.

Lord_Talron
thumb up

amnesia
Originally posted by rader
If Doom could take The Beyonder's powers, than Manhattan's would be a walk in the cake.


I see what you did there.

Bouboumaster
Reed soloes, Doom soloes, Pym MIGHT also soloes.

I don't see Manhattan stronger that Surfer. Maybe he's even weaker: Surfer can time travel, which is not something Manhattan can do. Hell, he can see in the future but can't modify the outcome.

On the other side, Doom already pwn Surfer, Galactus and Beyonder. He can time travel, and have the abilities over magic.

As for Reed, he's the specialist when it comes to cosmic. He already have pwn Doom several times and the mother****er have, in his closet, guns that can kill Celestials. In his closet.

These two would MURDER Manhattan, the match wouldn't even be fun to watch.

Black bolt z
You guys are selling Dr. M short.I mean he has been deatomized and reformed himself as a giant.Thats pretty good and it definitly hasn't shown his limits.

I believe he is high above surfer and possibly near galactus level.If galactus was hellbent on taking over these guys or just plain killing them do you really think there is anything they could to do stop it.
Also doom only stole galactus/beyonders power with a plot device.

Mshinu
Originally posted by Black bolt z
You guys are selling Dr. M short.I mean he has been deatomized and reformed himself as a giant.Thats pretty good and it definitly hasn't shown his limits.

I believe he is high above surfer and possibly near galactus level.If galactus was hellbent on taking over these guys or just plain killing them do you really think there is anything they could to do stop it.
Also doom only stole galactus/beyonders power with a plot device.

Osterman is near Big G? Why? The projections for his damage output was that he could destroy large areas in the Soviet Union if going all out in a nuclear war. He is no planet killer and tho he is powerful, he ain`t no Surfer.

753
Right, he couldnt even nullify the soviet strike, the usa would be destroyed just the same in nuclear war.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Mshinu
Osterman is near Big G? Why? The projections for his damage output was that he could destroy large areas in the Soviet Union if going all out in a nuclear war. He is no planet killer and tho he is powerful, he ain`t no Surfer. I defintly believe his is above surfer and possibly near galactus level.

Also where did it say his power projection output?Scans please or watchmen page and comic number.

Lord_Talron
Originally posted by Mshinu
Osterman is near Big G? Why? The projections for his damage output was that he could destroy large areas in the Soviet Union if going all out in a nuclear war. He is no planet killer and tho he is powerful, he ain`t no Surfer. hmmm i completely forgot about this. i will have to re-evaluate my stance in future manhattan threads.

Mshinu
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I defintly believe his is above surfer and possibly near galactus level.

Also where did it say his power projection output?Scans please or watchmen page and comic number.

Again, why do you rank him that high?

No scan since it is from one of those text only pages, the piece that deals with Manhattan`s power and his influence on the cold war and so on. Don`t have the book at hand right now but it should be at the end of chapter four.

753
Originally posted by Black bolt z
I defintly believe his is above surfer and possibly near galactus level.

Also where did it say his power projection output?Scans please or watchmen page and comic number.

They plainly state he could only take a percentage, 40% or somehting, of the soviet nuclear strike and the usa would still be destoryed.

Lord_Talron
gonna play devils advocate here. doesnt this only showcase his power as far as a series of precision, multidirectional blasts, not so much the destructive force of any one of those blasts?

753
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
gonna play devils advocate here. doesnt this only showcase his power as far as a series of precision, multidirectional blasts, not so much the destructive force of any one of those blasts?

I think it had something to do with how many copys of himself he could make, so yes, it had more to do with aplication of power than raw blasting power. But SS could disarm the whole planet with a thought.

Lord_Talron
then its basically apples to oranges when discussing his powerlevel vs someone like galactus who wont fight him by coming from tons of different angles and force him to use duplication to fight him

marwash22
If i told you that i had complete understanding of matter at it's fundemental level...

what does everyone think this means? and what could you infer i would be capable of?

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
gonna play devils advocate here. doesnt this only showcase his power as far as a series of precision, multidirectional blasts, not so much the destructive force of any one of those blasts?
I don't recall him really blasting much. It was usually disassembling. Cable did something similar when he had his big man pants on which leads me to believe he's around herald level with crazy fat brain bonuses.

Lord_Talron
Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I don't recall him really blasting much. It was usually disassembling. Cable did something similar when he had his big man pants on which leads me to believe he's around herald level with crazy fat brain bonuses. yea, i could see him being around god-cable level.

753
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
then its basically apples to oranges when discussing his powerlevel vs someone like galactus who wont fight him by coming from tons of different angles and force him to use duplication to fight him

If G wants to, that's what he'll do. He is "beyond dimensions".

I posted that as an example of how he can't even match the SS. Manhatan's demonstrated upper limits in power scope are far below the SS's and what other upper limits he might have in raw power output are impossible to tell, as they were never shown . The feast he does have in this category (and every other) are far below SS's just the same.

So going by all on panel evidence, he is below the SS and claiming otherwise is speculation.

rader
Originally posted by marwash22
If i told you that i had complete understanding of matter at it's fundemental level...

what does everyone think this means? and what could you infer i would be capable of?
Heralds of Galactus are capable it the same feat

Lord_Talron
so does doom smurph

Doctor-Alvis
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
yea, i could see him being around god-cable level.
And that kind of power in a world where there are virtually no super powered people, except the passing mention of psychics existing, would make you pretty overpowered.

rader
Yes, but in the MU it would make you a mid, possibly high, herald.

Lord_Talron
and possibly able to defeat surfer. link-rape

Black bolt z
Originally posted by 753
They plainly state he could only take a percentage, 40% or somehting, of the soviet nuclear strike and the usa would still be destoryed. I don't remeber a quote from the book but the book and movie are so alike I will quote something from the movie.Hopefully it is right.

I believe the russians has 51,000 nukes and ozymandias said "even is doctor manhatten can sop 99% of all those nukes it would still be enough to wipe out all life on the planet.

I did the math.Thats about 70-80 nukes a continent.

Mshinu
The book says he theoretically should be able to stop at least 60%, if all soviet missiles in USSR and Europe were launched at the USA.

The percentage that get trough, together with the US counterstrike would efficiently kill all organic life in the northern hemisphere.

Black bolt z
Originally posted by Mshinu
The book says he theoretically should be able to stop at least 60%, if all soviet missiles in USSR and Europe were launched at the USA.

The percentage that get trough, together with the US counterstrike would efficiently kill all organic life in the northern hemisphere. OK so the book says less then the movie.Just didn't feel like getting my book lol.

marwash22
what does the nuke scenario have to do with this? the team is trying to save the world, not kill Manhattan at the cost of also killing everyone on Earth... it would be counterproductive to just nuke him.

Also, nuking him wouldn't even work because in this scenario, he isn't trying to save anyone so he could just avoid them. Setting off nukes would actually be benefitial to his cause.

rader
We're not discussing nuking him, we're merely claiming he isn't capable of stopping all those nukes, while someone like the surfer could; thus Dr. Mahattan isn't as powerful as the surfer. People like Doom or Reed could run a train on surfer with 10 days prep solo.

Martian_mind
Jonn solos.

marwash22
Originally posted by rader
We're not discussing nuking him, we're merely claiming he isn't capable of stopping all those nukes, while someone like the surfer could; thus Dr. Mahattan isn't as powerful as the surfer. People like Doom or Reed could run a train on surfer with 10 days prep solo. understood.

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