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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/141110-102893-crom_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/38780/938367-odin_large.jpg

I'm gonna go ahead and say Crom.

He's been around longer and in an issue of Thor, he traveled back in time to the Age of Conan. It seemed like Crom was having his way with both Thor and Mjolnir's enchantments.

Let me try and find the issue number.

Crom laughs at your Odin. Laughs from his mountain. Odin is stronger. He is the everlasting sky. Crom lives underneath him

They almost could be the same guy. They both have Valhalla for example.

Meh, I just googled it, my Thor/Crom reference was from a What If

Oh well. I still say Crom. He did bind Shuma-Gorath up and we all know what a beast he is.

By Crom ftw.

^ punk

And doesn't Crom have a Mephisto-esque quality to his powers? ie. he is all powerful within his own realm, but outside of it not so much..?

Originally posted by zopzop
Oh well. I still say Crom. He did bind Shuma-Gorath up and we all know what a beast he is. off panel. id also like to add that from a power and look standpoint, the conan-verse version of shuma seemed WAY different than his mainstream incarnation. i mean even after he was released in the conan-verse all it took was reading from 3 iron-clad books to beat him there.

like i said, he's never been portrayed as that meager of a threat in mainstream marvel. he gave frigging sis-neg a good battle. srsly

^ Agreed on all accounts.

Here's the mentioning of Crom 'beating' Shuma:
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1300/shuma1.jpg

The above 'beating' apparently took place eons ago when Crom sent three iron-clad books to a shaman. The shaman used these books to imprison Shuma within a mountain:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7747/shuma2.jpg
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1894/shuma3.jpg
http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/8571/shuma4.jpg
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/416/shuma5.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7861/shuma6.jpg

After finding these books, Conan was able to banish Shuma (who had obviously been released) via throwing them at him:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9374/shuma7.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4332/shuma8.jpg
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6886/shuma9.jpg
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4884/shuma10.jpg


And like you mentioned before, Shuma's appearance in Conan The Barbarian was vastly different than any of his other appearances. He seemed far less powerful.

Why is it so hard to believe a "God" beat Shuma's ass on Earth when Strange schooled him in his own freaking realm?

Still going with Crom on this one.

Originally posted by zopzop
Why is it so hard to believe a "God" beat Shuma's ass on Earth No one is denying that Crom 'beat' that poor interpretation of Shuma. I was just pointing out that the 'by proxy' manner in which he did so seemed a bit... Odd.

Originally posted by zopzop
when Strange schooled him in his own freaking realm? Context. Before fighting Shuma, Strange absorbed the power of a demon who could "become as strong as he could imagine" -- a demon whose power was "not even finite." Shuma even noted Strange's boost in power during their battle.

It's not like Strange just *poofed* into Shuma's realm and schooled him.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
he gave frigging sis-neg a good battle. srsly
No, he didn't. The only reason Sise-Neg didn't kill him was that it would take more energy than he could be bothered with to do so.

^ True but its still pretty impressive that one of the most powerful fellas in Marvels history would have had to exhaust much of his power to beat Shuma.

I say Crom. I dont know about Odin needing prayers to keep his power at flow but Crom dont need it, I know Zues does. He is the kind of god that doesnt want ppl to know about him. His name is used more of a curse word lol thats y Conan uses it alot.

Originally posted by Galan007
No one is denying that Crom 'beat' that poor interpretation of Shuma. I was just pointing out that the 'by proxy' manner in which he did so seemed a bit... Odd.

But he beat him though. That's all that counts



Oh trust me, he schooled them both (Arioch and Shuma) in their own realms which makes it more embarrassing. One of them, Arioch, was supposedly as strong as he wanted to be, yet Strange absorbed him completely. It wasn't much of a fight either. Arioch was even fooled by simple illusions!

Next came Shuma, a little back and forth, then Strange hurls a voodoo doll flaming simulacrum of Earth at Shuma, fights over. In his realm. Where he's supposedly omnipotent.

Color me unimpressed.

This fight would depend on the age (era) of the deities in question. Crom drew his power from his worshippers, so in modern times Odin would waste him, as Aquilonia no longer exists.

Sorry to say but Crom did not drew his powers from worshippers. Cause he doesnt like ppl. He doesnt even want ppl to know of him. That is zues that drew his powers from worshippers.

Originally posted by Sethos
Sorry to say but Crom did not drew his powers from worshippers. Cause he doesnt like ppl. He doesnt even want ppl to know of him. That is zues that drew his powers from worshippers.


Sorry to say but he had worshippers. Have you ever once read a Conan book? How many times in one book has Conan or Red Sonja called on Crom for strength? I'll let you know that it was a lot.

Yes they call apon him but not alot. Crom's name they use more as a curse word like F..k or s... yes I have alot of conan books. If he does have worshippers then its not like zues where he needs them to gain power from them. If u have ever read the books or played the game it will tell u that he wasnt worshiped like the others but he was more powerful then the others.

Originally posted by Sethos
Yes they call apon him but not alot. Crom's name they use more as a curse word like F..k or s... yes I have alot of conan books. If he does have worshippers then its not like zues where he needs them to gain power from them. If u have ever read the books or played the game it will tell u that he wasnt worshiped like the others but he was more powerful then the others.

I have several Conan comics, and you're wrong. They call on him for strength. In a what If comic, Thor went back in time to Conan's era, and it was stated, that in that era Thor was little more than a man.

Perhaps you could find it, and it would change you opinion on the subject. Deities have always drawn strength from their worshipers. Crom was no different. Like I said read the book, and check out what he tells Thor, about that being his era, and how he held all of the cards at that point in time.

Crom is not a selfish, jealous, or petty God. He makes no claims about being the 'only' God, the 'one true God', or any other such self - gratifying remarks, for Crom's self does not need serving. He is beyond that, and he is greater than those Gods who clamour and beg for mortal recognition. What need hath the Great Crom of such? He is Great because he seeks not to further his Greatness. Only a lesser god need do that. Bah! The lesser gods know nothing of Crom's might, and are as mortals next to Father Crom. I must not b going of the comics where he meets thor but this is how they put Crom in the conan books. Ill check where he meets thor. It will take me some time to find the comic on the net tho.

Originally posted by Sethos
Crom is not a selfish, jealous, or petty God. He makes no claims about being the 'only' God, the 'one true God', or any other such self - gratifying remarks, for Crom's self does not need serving. He is beyond that, and he is greater than those Gods who clamour and beg for mortal recognition. What need hath the Great Crom of such? He is Great because he seeks not to further his Greatness. Only a lesser god need do that. Bah! The lesser gods know nothing of Crom's might, and are as mortals next to Father Crom. I must not b going of the comics where he meets thor but this is how they put Crom in the conan books. Ill check where he meets thor. It will take me some time to find the comic on the net tho.

I agree. Cimmerians didn't pray to Crom, because they knew he simply didn't care. He only gifts the strength of his sword arm and the fire in his heart to man. After that, you're on your own.

Originally posted by BerserkersRage
I agree. Cimmerians didn't pray to Crom, because they knew he simply didn't care. He only gifts the strength of his sword arm and the fire in his heart to man. After that, you're on your own.


So I guess what happened in the comics wasn't written then? The Cimmerians called on Crom, or Mitra or whatever pagan god that they worshiped, and it in turn powered the deities in that era. Which is why Crom told Thor that this was not his time.

This means that there would be a time that Crom would lose power, because he would no longer be remembered. New deities replaced him, and became the new order of things while he faded into obscurity.

Think what you will, but it was written that way.

Crom's champion is the governor of California.
Crom wins

Originally posted by King Kandy
No, he didn't. The only reason Sise-Neg didn't kill him was that it would take more energy than he could be bothered with to do so.

He said he didn't even want to attempt to destroy Shuma-Gorath because it absorbed energy. Saying he could have destroyed Shuma at that point is entirely speculation. Shuma would have continued to get stronger while Sise-Neg would have continued to get weaker. How does that lead to Sise-Neg winning?

Originally posted by zopzop
But he beat him though. That's all that counts


Oh trust me, he schooled them both (Arioch and Shuma) in their own realms which makes it more embarrassing. One of them, Arioch, was supposedly as strong as he wanted to be, yet Strange absorbed him completely. It wasn't much of a fight either. Arioch was even fooled by simple illusions!

Next came Shuma, a little back and forth, then Strange hurls a voodoo doll flaming simulacrum of Earth at Shuma, fights over. In his realm. Where he's supposedly omnipotent.

Color me unimpressed.


Crom Shuma =/= Steve Englehart Shuma. So Crom never beat the Shuma that Strange tangled with.

It was Shuma-Gorath's own energy that destroyed it so it makes sense.Strange needed massive amounts of preparation in order to face Shuma, having magical backing from Cyttorak and the Vishanti and merging with another Lord of Chaos was just some of this prep. Shuma-Gorath has proved a force to be reckoned with. It feeds off all types of energy, magically generated or otherwise, its intelligence is incalcuable, is one of the few Gods shown to generate its own magical energy (most Gods and magicians use magic or spells by calling upon another source), made a replica of earth and surrounded it in a ring of fire as well as puta spell on it to make everyone writhe in agony when Strange/Arioch tried to remove it, generated an image of Dormammu admitting inferiority to its power, used its image to almost murder Doctor Strange within the Ancient One's mind, is revealed to be incapable of dying as anything that manages to pull enough power to defeat it will be consumed by its energy and turn into Shuma-Gorath itself, rules over hundreds of dimensions (universes), stalemated The Vishanti (Agamotto, Oshtur, Hoggoth) when outside of its realm, stated to have power in one of its lesser realms that made Mephisto and Satannish look like "mice in a great temple" at a time when those two Gods were written to be exceptionally powerful compared to nowadays, was made of sufficient power to destroy galaxies just by being present, and even forced a Sise-Neg who was near the end of his magical absorption to put it to sleep rather than try and combat it directly.

And btw, Strange's absorption of Arioch is called PIS. Ever heard of it?

I was reading the Thor vs Conan n didnt find anything that says he needs prayers. Its funny that Thor trys to hit Crom lol.

Originally posted by CortSether
Crom Shuma =/= Steve Englehart Shuma. So Crom never beat the Shuma that Strange tangled with.

Shuma was trapped by Crom and it was acknowledged in his handbook. So I'm guessing its canon.





PIS eh? Well I guess lightening must of struck twice because after absorbing Arioch, he goes on and schools an "omnipotent" Gorath in his own realm.

Both loses were humiliating because a) it happened in their own realms and b) the ease in which it happened to supposedly "omnipotent" beings. Freaking Dormammu, Mephisto, and Satannish supposedly "mice" compared to Shuma never went down so easy.

Originally posted by zopzop
Shuma was trapped by Crom and it was acknowledged in his handbook. So I'm guessing its canon.





PIS eh? Well I guess lightening must of struck twice because after absorbing Arioch, he goes on and schools an "omnipotent" Gorath in his own realm.

Both loses were humiliating because a) it happened in their own realms and b) the ease in which it happened to supposedly "omnipotent" beings. Freaking Dormammu, Mephisto, and Satannish supposedly "mice" compared to Shuma never went down so easy.

It's only mentioned because Marvel published some Conan for a while, but the writers of the Conan series weren't Marvel writers. Nothing in Conan effects the Marvel continuity at all so it =/= canon.

Yea, it's PIS. When has Strange ever before that battle or any time after that battle been able to force a god to merge with him? It was simply plot device for Strange do even have a hope of getting through the situation. Lol at you saying the battle went down easy. I doubt you've looked at more than a few scans of the arc.

Originally posted by CortSether
It's only mentioned because Marvel published some Conan for a while, but the writers of the Conan series weren't Marvel writers. Nothing in Conan effects the Marvel continuity at all so it =/= canon.

Yea, it's PIS. When has Strange ever before that battle or any time after that battle been able to force a god to merge with him? It was simply plot device for Strange do even have a hope of getting through the situation. Lol at you saying the battle went down easy. I doubt you've looked at more than a few scans of the arc.

Originally posted by CortSether
It's only mentioned because Marvel published some Conan for a while, but the writers of the Conan series weren't Marvel writers. Nothing in Conan effects the Marvel continuity at all so it =/= canon.

Then how do you explain the Set entries? They are canon like Crom's beat down of Gorath.



Then the entire story arc must have been PIS. Because Strange handed Shuma his ass by hurling a flaming simulacrum of Earth at him. Game Over.

Absorbs his lieutenant? Check!
Kills Gorath by hurling a glorified dodge ball in his grill? Check!

Gorath beatdown, in his own realm, accomplished!

Let Strange try that sxxt with Mephisto and Satannish in their realms. He should be able to easily right? Since they were "as rats in a great temple" before Gorath.

your arguments are bulletproof zop. none


Anyway the story said that Crom had imprisoned Shuma within the mountain for "eons". that right there is enough to say that mainstream Shuma =/= Conan Shuma, as mainstream Shuma was ACTIVE when Conan Shuma was INACTIVE.

kthxbye.

Originally posted by john allerdyce
your arguments are bulletproof zop. none


Anyway the story said that Crom had imprisoned Shuma within the mountain for "eons". that right there is enough to say that mainstream Shuma =/= Conan Shuma, as mainstream Shuma was ACTIVE when Conan Shuma was INACTIVE.

kthxbye.

Ok care to tell me what comics this occurred in?

Crom imprisoned Gorath to about 18-12000 BCE Earth time. Tell what issue shows him as active and free during this time and I'll secede my point.

Originally posted by zopzop
Ok care to tell me what comics this occurred in?

Crom imprisoned Gorath to about 18-12000 BCE Earth time. Tell what issue shows him as active and free during this time and I'll secede my point. Shuma making appearances in mainstream marvel before that should be enough evidence... Unless you think mainstream marvels timeline coincides with the conan timeline. And if you think that then I may as well stop now. srsly

Originally posted by john allerdyce
Shuma making appearances in mainstream marvel before that should be enough evidence... Unless you think mainstream marvels timeline coincides with the conan timeline. And if you think that then I may as well stop now. srsly

What are you talking about? Did Gorath appear in a Marvel story that took place between 18-12000 BCE? If so what issue was it? If no then cut the BS.

is crom an elder god?

Originally posted by zopzop
What are you talking about? Did Gorath appear in a Marvel story that took place between 18-12000 BCE? If so what issue was it? If no then cut the BS. there's no reason for me to prove that. even when conan was written by marvel, its events obviously occurred in an alternate universe. and there is no proof that past events in the conan universe occurred at the same time in mainstream marvels timeline. get me?

Originally posted by john allerdyce
there's no reason for me to prove that. even when conan was written by marvel, its events obviously occurred in an alternate universe. and there is no proof that past events in the conan universe occurred at the *relative* same time in mainstream marvels timeline. get me?

Now I know you're full of BS.

Set, the Elder God, jumped from the pages of Conan to mainstream Marvel.

His whole back story was tightly integrated into mainstream Marvel continuity.

I believe the imprisonment of Gorath by Crom is even in his Official Marvel bio. So you need to tell me what issues Gorath was supposedly active in during the time he was imprisoned by Crom circa 18-12000 BCE.

@ Colossus

No, Crom is not an Elder God. He's much younger. coming on the scene around 20-18000 BCE. Much, much later than Set and crew.

Originally posted by zopzop
Now I know you're full of BS.

Set, the Elder God, jumped from the pages of Conan to mainstream Marvel.

His whole back story was tightly integrated into mainstream Marvel continuity.

I believe the imprisonment of Gorath by Crom is even in his Official Marvel bio. So you need to tell me what issues Gorath was supposedly active in during the time he was imprisoned by Crom circa 18-12000 BCE.

@ Colossus

No, Crom is not an Elder God. He's much younger. coming on the scene around 20-18000 BCE. Much, much later than Set and crew. what are his origions

@Colossus

I don't think it was ever really explained. Just that he was a young/new God that handed Gorath his ass.

Other Gods from this era include Mitra, Asura, Bori, and a few more I'm not recalling.

Crom, Set (the Elder God who continued to have worshipers), Mitra, and one other I think Asura, were the major Gods of this era 18-12000 BCE.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Colossus

I don't think it was ever really explained. Just that he was a young/new God that handed Gorath his ass.

Other Gods from this era include Mitra, Asura, Bori, and a few more I'm not recalling.

Crom, Set (the Elder God who continued to have worshipers), Mitra, and one other I think Asura, were the major Gods of this era 18-12000 BCE. bori is odins grand father

also wasnt it stated in the conan that the elder gods banished shuma gorath and the great old ones?

All I know is that Crom trapped Gorath, using three Iron Bound Books, in a mountain.

^ Well, Crom led a shaman to 3 iron clad books, with which the shaman used to imprison Shuma. But I don't recall it ever being stated that Crom actually created those books.

Regardless, Shuma's imprisonment in Conan is canon. It was even mentioned in his most recent OHOTMU bio:

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/3096/shuma.th.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Well, Crom led a shaman to 3 iron clad books, with which the shaman used to imprison Shuma. But I don't recall it ever being stated that Crom actually created those books.

So, according to the Official Handbook entry, it didn't even take a God to own him, just a "shaman and 3 iron clad books"? That's even more sad.

Kind of puts Strange's asskicking of Gorath into perspective. It wasn't PIS it was business as usual for Gorath.



Huh? It's canon in mainstream Marvel, that's all that counts.

Originally posted by zopzop
So, according to the Official Handbook entry, it didn't even take a God to own him, just a "shaman and 3 iron clad books"? That's even more sad. What the?

The iron clad books Crom led the shaman to were meant to both imprison and awaken Shuma -- that was/is their main purpose (they are ever referred to as 'the iron bound books of Shuma Gorath')... Hell, by your logic it's a low showing for Spectre any time he's gotten owned by the Spear of Destiny.
srsly

Originally posted by zopzop
Huh? It's canon in mainstream Marvel, that's all that counts. Yeah, no shit. That's what I just pointed out by posting Shuma's OHOTMU entry. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
What the?

The iron clad books Crom led the shaman to were meant to both imprison and awaken Shuma -- that was/is their main purpose (they are ever referred to as 'the iron bound books of Shuma Gorath')... Hell, by your logic it's a low showing for Spectre any time he's gotten owned by the Spear of Destiny.
srsly

The point was, it just took a sorcerer with the right spell and his ass was owned. So Strange owning him, even in his own dimension, isn't uber PIS.



You need to chillax, it's not that serious.

Originally posted by zopzop
The point was, it just took a sorcerer with the right spell and his ass was owned. No, it took a shaman reading from books made to imprison Shuma, to imprison Shuma.

Your unsubstantiated badgering is laughable at this point.

Originally posted by Galan007
No, it took a shaman reading from books made to imprison Shuma, to imprison Shuma.

Who made those books? And my point still stands, magicians pwning Gorath in this universe or his own, isn't PIS. There's precedent.



Like I said, chillax.

Originally posted by zopzop
Who made those books? To my knowledge it hasn't been specifically stated who created them. They're just another plot device that randomly shows up to defeat a powerful foe.

Odin will stomp his a$$. Odin has feats that would make crom stay in hiding.

Originally posted by zopzop
Who made those books? And my point still stands, magicians pwning Gorath in this universe or his own, isn't PIS. There's precedent.



Like I said, chillax.


It's funny how you cling to the idea that Shuma-Gorath being trapped due to the Iron Bound Books automatically make Shuma weak. How about you explain the mystical vase of uber power that Zom couldn't get out of？

Originally posted by CortSether
It's funny how you cling to the idea that Shuma-Gorath being trapped due to the Iron Bound Books automatically make Shuma weak. How about you explain the mystical vase of uber power that Zom couldn't get out of？

Chains of Living Bondage + Dormammu + Eternity + Amphora VS Nameless Neanderthal Shaman + Iron Bound Books.

See a difference?

Originally posted by zopzop
Chains of Living Bondage + Dormammu + Eternity + Amphora VS Nameless Neanderthal Shaman + Iron Bound Books.

See a difference?

More like Dormammu put Zom in chains before Eternity was even involved. Doesn't matter who put Zom in a vase...he was still stuck in a vase. And he was stalemating a regular Doc Strange

The Iron Bound Books have magic from Crom. That's why the mountain that enveloped Shuma was called 'Mt. Crom'.

Originally posted by CortSether
More like Dormammu put Zom in chains before Eternity was even involved. Doesn't matter who put Zom in a vase...he was still stuck in a vase. And he was stalemating a regular Doc Strange

CHAINED he was "stalemating" (aka almost killed, see the scan) Strange + Ancient One. Even chained he was too much for Dormammu (we saw how he handled his sister). Even chained Eternity couldn't kill him and had to imprison him in the amphora in a dimension beyond all time and space.

Gorath got killed by Strange in his own realm where he's omnipotent.



You have proof Crom created those books or empowered them? Because if no, Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman. If yes, Gorath got owned by an Earth God. Either way it's sad. Even more embarrassing Gorath was trapped in a freakin' mountain , Zom was so dangerous he was exiled in a dimension beyond known reality by the personification of our universe.

Crom

Saying "Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman", without mentioning how the shaman was able to do so, is utterly ridiculous. Again, the iron-bound books of Shuma Gorath were designed to both bind and free him. That's why Conan merely had to throw said books at Shuma for him to vanish.

Getting beaten by a weakness that is specific to your character =/= a "low showing". For instance: Superman getting beaten by kryptonite isn't a low showing for him. Spectre getting beaten by the Spear of Destiny isn't a low showing for him.... Shuma getting beaten by the iron bound books isn't a low showing for him.

Originally posted by zopzop
CHAINED he was "stalemating" (aka almost killed, see the scan) Strange + Ancient One. Even chained he was too much for Dormammu (we saw how he handled his sister). Even chained Eternity couldn't kill him and had to imprison him in the amphora in a dimension beyond all time and space.

Gorath got killed by Strange in his own realm where he's omnipotent.



You have proof Crom created those books or empowered them? Because if no, Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman. If yes, Gorath got owned by an Earth God. Either way it's sad. Even more embarrassing Gorath was trapped in a freakin' mountain , Zom was so dangerous he was exiled in a dimension beyond known reality by the personification of our universe.

Zom not being able to use both his hands entirely freely prevented him from killing a single sorcerer...yea, he's not that great. Who's to say Eternity couldn't kill him? Nothing is even alluded to them even battling. Dormammu could have just put Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage and Eternity just decided to imprison him. If Zom can't even kill a normal Doctor Strange then I find it incredibly far fetched to believe he'd be a match for Eternity, regardless if he could use both his hands entirely or not.

By the way, Strange didn't kill Shuma-Gorath in its realm. The battle between Strange/Arioch and Shuma-Gorath was a good part metaphorical. Strange/Arioch was turning into Shuma-Gorath itself and was therefore able to wield the awesome power Shuma-Gorath generated. The metaphorical battle comes into play with Strange's self-sacrifice from the beginning of his journey all the way to the end when he decided to dedicate every aspect of himself into Shiva, the destroyer. This showed how committed he was to saving the earth from Shuma's cruelty and how he went from doubting himself for becoming a murderer (killing the Ancient One) to entirely embracing his evil nature that he was corrupted with. Strange/Arioch had started to become Shuma-Gorath and wielded Shuma's awesome power. He became a monster to defeat a monster. Arioch's energy gave Strange that boost but it wasn't what let him destroy Shuma. In fact, he hadn't even harmed Shuma until Shuma struck him and started forcing Strange/Arioch to change into a Shuma-Gorath.It was his becoming Shuma-Gorath in all aspects that enabled him to defeat the Lord of Chaos within its realm. Shuma-Gorath even foreshadows it by quoting Friedrich Nietzsche "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself". He became a separate Shuma-Gorath within the realm, and after the battle was over the apparently destroyed Shuma-Gorath would have taken over Strange's ego had he not killed himself. In terms of power it was as if Shuma-Gorath defeated itself.

I believe Galan already addressed your whole Crom issue.

Originally posted by Galan007
Saying "Gorath got owned by a nameless shaman", without mentioning how the shaman was able to do so, is utterly ridiculous. Again, the iron-bound books of Shuma Gorath were designed to both bind and free him. That's why Conan merely had to throw said books at Shuma for him to vanish.

Who created those books? If it was Crom, he got owned by an Earth bound deity.



Again till we know who created the books, we can't say whether it was a low showing or not. So far we know he got beat by an unnamed shaman using "Iron Bound Books". Which is pathetic.

Originally posted by CortSether
Zom not being able to use both his hands entirely freely prevented him from killing a single sorcerer...yea, he's not that great. Who's to say Eternity couldn't kill him? Nothing is even alluded to them even battling. Dormammu could have just put Zom in the Chains of Living Bondage and Eternity just decided to imprison him. If Zom can't even kill a normal Doctor Strange then I find it incredibly far fetched to believe he'd be a match for Eternity, regardless if he could use both his hands entirely or not.

Why imprison if you had the power to kill it? Imprisoning it in the first place, instead of allowing it to roam free, is a sign that it was considered dangerous enough not to be allowed to do it's own thing.

It was Strange + Ancient One, the two most powerful earth bound sorcerers. And I even provided you the scan showing Strange down and stunned, recovering "slowly", wondering why Zom didn't finish the attack.

Meanwhile Arioch and Gorath got their asses kicked by Strange in their own realms, not bound or handicapped in any way.



Galan addressed nothing. No one knows who made those books, it could have been Crom or some human sorcerer. Either way, it's humiliating.

And keep beating around the bush, you know "omnipotent" Gorath got his teeth kicked in by Strange, immediately after Strange *****-slapped his "all powerful" lieutenant.

Strange, Strange/Ancient One NEVER defeated Zom. You understand this right?

Originally posted by zopzop
Who created those books? If it was Crom, he got owned by an Earth bound deity.



Again till we know who created the books, we can't say whether it was a low showing or not. So far we know he got beat by an unnamed shaman using "Iron Bound Books". Which is pathetic. I give up. There is honestly no getting through to you.

Originally posted by Galan007
I give up. There is honestly no getting through to you.

Dude stop being a drama queen. Who made the things? Crom or a human sorcerer? That's all I'm asking.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude stop being a drama queen. Who made the things? Crom or a human sorcerer? That's all I'm asking. No drama here, just a slight irritation.

Like I said before, it has never been stated who was responsible for creating the iron-bound books Crom led the shaman to. But the fact that they were capable of insta-beating Shuma (something not even Sise-Neg was capable of), I'd say whomever made them was quite powerful.

Not really. As we've seen Gorath has been owned on Earth (recently) and in his own realm by Strange.

Keep in mind Strange, to my knowledge, has never owned Chthon, Mephisto, or Dormammu like that in their home realms.

You can keep bringing up Shuma's situational low showings (or at least what you perceive as low showings) all you want -- but you cannot dismiss the fact that Sise-Neg (one of the most powerful characters ever) would have had to battle Shuma for a good deal of time in order to defeat him. That in itself is exceedingly impressive on Shuma's part.

So he has ONE good "almost" showing and a history of getting his ass handed to him.

Whatever you say, buddy.

In all seriousness Galan, I'm not trying to troll you.

He's lost repeatedly to people he had no business losing too. He has one good "half showing" and we're supposed to believe he's the shiznit? I'm not buying it.

Originally posted by zopzop
In all seriousness Galan, I'm not trying to troll you. I don't believe you are trolling at all.

Anyhow, I've stated my fact-based opinions a few times now... I need say nothing more.

Originally posted by zopzop
Now I know you're full of BS.

Set, the Elder God, jumped from the pages of Conan to mainstream Marvel.

His whole back story was tightly integrated into mainstream Marvel continuity.

I believe the imprisonment of Gorath by Crom is even in his Official Marvel bio. So you need to tell me what issues Gorath was supposedly active in during the time he was imprisoned by Crom circa 18-12000 BCE.

@ Colossus

No, Crom is not an Elder God. He's much younger. coming on the scene around 20-18000 BCE. Much, much later than Set and crew.

He still Thor half brother