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Ok, at the request of Rage of Olympus, Nova Prime vs Thor... Battle takes place in outer space. Nova Prime is at full power. Thor doesn't have Mjolnir. No bfr. Who takes it?

I gotta see this.

You sly bastard, you.

no hammie, no way. nova will buttrape goldilocks

What? Rider stomps. Thor can no longer block energy blasts, and Mjolnir helps his movement capabilities too.

Originally posted by dmills
Ok, at the request of Rage of Olympus, Nova Prime vs Thor... Battle takes place in outer space. Nova Prime is at full power. Thor doesn't have Mjolnir. No bfr. Who takes it?

I gotta see this.

Oh no u didn't...

Thor also needs to breathe eventually.

He could hold his breath for a very long time back in the day but I don't believe air is a concern currently for him anymore.

Originally posted by Q99
What? Rider stomps. Thor can no longer block energy blasts, and Mjolnir helps his movement capabilities too.

Thor doesn't need Mjolnir to withstand energy blasts from Nova Prime.

----------

Is Thor willing to use his energy based powers and more versatile capabilities? If so, he wins in a direct fight unless Nova Prime uses a Stargate or some such. No Mjolnir = No teleportation = Susceptibility to battle field removal.

Limited to being simply a brick who can't fly (It's not consistent across the board) Nova Prime has the energy output to wear him down eventually I guess, if he's intelligent enough to keep it at long range.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He could hold his breath for a very long time back in the day but I don't believe air is a concern currently for him anymore.



It's a shame if 'Whom the gods would destroy' has been retconned...

Fond memories.

What part of that graphic novel supported the idea that Thor would eventually run out of air? If you're referring to the scene where Thor transforms into Blake, it is true, his mortal form will eventually run out of air but that doesn't reflect on the Thunder God.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What part of that graphic novel supported the idea that Thor would eventually run out of air? If you're referring to the scene where Thor transforms into Blake, it is true, his mortal form will eventually run out of air but that doesn't reflect on the Thunder God.

Ha the cover ;-)

Nah, it kept being mentioned in those days he had to breathe.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He could hold his breath for a very long time back in the day but I don't believe air is a concern currently for him anymore.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He could hold his breath for a very long time back in the day but I don't believe air is a concern currently for him anymore.


What makes you think air is no longer a concern?

Originally posted by Daemon Seed
What makes you think air is no longer a concern?

It's one of those things that just happened I think. Somewhere down the line writers seemed to just assume he doesn't need air I guess. I'd wager it was somewhere around the late 80's. There's also this:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/Noair.jpg

To be fair, it was written by Loeb.

On another note, I just noticed something I never have before in that fight. It's the blue cosmic like energy emanating from Rulk:
http://comicboards.com/app/image.php?msg=thor-2008073023544867&att=Untitled-4.jpg&fullsize=yes
http://comicboards.com/app/image.php?msg=thor-2008073023544867&att=Untitled-5.jpg&fullsize=yes

A hint for the future energy absorption reveal? At least a hint of something else being up.

I'd forgotten how much of a one sided beat down that was. It was almost...spiteful.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He could hold his breath for a very long time back in the day but I don't believe air is a concern currently for him anymore.



Thor doesn't need Mjolnir to withstand energy blasts from Nova Prime.

----------

Is Thor willing to use his energy based powers and more versatile capabilities? If so, he wins in a direct fight unless Nova Prime uses a Stargate or some such. No Mjolnir = No teleportation = Susceptibility to battle field removal.

Limited to being simply a brick who can't fly (It's not consistent across the board) Nova Prime has the energy output to wear him down eventually I guess, if he's intelligent enough to keep it at long range. Theres always a if isn't there?

Nova wins.

Nova 10/10

Nova wins despite rage's hopes and dreams.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Nova 10/10

I really dont see nova beating him.

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
I really dont see nova beating him.


Nova wins.

Nova 10/10

Originally posted by dmills
Ok, at the request of Rage of Olympus, Nova Prime vs Thor... Battle takes place in outer space. Nova Prime is at full power. Thor doesn't have Mjolnir. No bfr. Who takes it?

I gotta see this. you tarnished any possible victory with this OP brah

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
On another note, I just noticed something I never have before in that fight. It's the blue cosmic like energy emanating from Rulk check the page when red hulk ditches thor's battered body, it's space

the instance when he's jumping could be him going through the atmosphere

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Nova 10/10

Originally posted by psycho gundam
you tarnished any possible victory with this OP brah

Heh. It's a bush league thread I know. Believe me I didn't want to. However...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=549972&pagenumber=1

The genesis of this. Originally it was all tongue in cheek. Unfortunately somebody wanted to take it here, so I obliged them just for the lulz.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It's one of those things that just happened I think. Somewhere down the line writers seemed to just assume he doesn't need air I guess. I'd wager it was somewhere around the late 80's. There's also this:
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa469/R-O-O/Thor/Noair.jpg

To be fair, it was written by Loeb.

Don't forget the Secret Avengers Serpent Crown Arc when they were on Mars and Valkyrie, an Asgardian, didn't need a space suit or oxygen to survive there.

Nova in a stomp.

Nova

Originally posted by Gecko4lif
I really dont see nova beating him. wut?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
On another note, I just noticed something I never have before in that fight. It's the blue cosmic like energy emanating from Rulk:
http://comicboards.com/app/image.php?msg=thor-2008073023544867&att=Untitled-4.jpg&fullsize=yes
http://comicboards.com/app/image.php?msg=thor-2008073023544867&att=Untitled-5.jpg&fullsize=yes

A hint for the future energy absorption reveal? At least a hint of something else being up.
1. Scan Background to contrast Rulks hair from the background, Probably light from the lightning that struck beneath the two while they were going up.

2. Scan pretty much also background because in the 2nd panel there is no blue energy on Rulk but suddenly behind Thor after he hit him.

Thor, sans Mjolnir, destroys Nova with the God Blast...

Thor 10/10...

Originally posted by psycho gundam
check the page when red hulk ditches thor's battered body, it's space the instance when he's jumping could be him going through the atmosphere

Oh I see it. I guess it must just be ambient cosmic radiation...or something.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
1. Scan Background to contrast Rulks hair from the background, Probably light from the lightning that struck beneath the two while they were going up.

2. Scan pretty much also background because in the 2nd panel there is no blue energy on Rulk but suddenly behind Thor after he hit him.

Nvm.

Loeb and Breevort hinted at other shit going on in this fight besides strength at the time and one of them mentioned that if you look closely enough, you'd see it. Guess I'm just missing it or it's the over the head wielding Mjolnir scene.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Thor, sans Mjolnir, destroys Nova with the God Blast...

Thor 10/10...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He could hold his breath for a very long time back in the day but I don't believe air is a concern currently for him anymore.



Thor doesn't need Mjolnir to withstand energy blasts from Nova Prime.

----------

Is Thor willing to use his energy based powers and more versatile capabilities? If so, he wins in a direct fight unless Nova Prime uses a Stargate or some such. No Mjolnir = No teleportation = Susceptibility to battle field removal.

Limited to being simply a brick who can't fly (It's not consistent across the board) Nova Prime has the energy output to wear him down eventually I guess, if he's intelligent enough to keep it at long range. Out of curiosity how many do you think he could take before the blasts start to have an effect? Also, what do you believe would happen if Prime engages him at close range?

Originally posted by dmills
Out of curiosity how many do you think he could take before the blasts start to have an effect? Also, what do you believe would happen if Prime engages him at close range?

Depends on the intensity but Thor's energy damage soak is incredible.

He would get ripped apart.

Originally posted by Black bolt z


I feel the same way about the LoM... :-/

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Depends on the intensity but Thor's energy damage soak is incredible.

He would get ripped apart.

Fair enough I guess.

I see. So in your opinion Thor is so much more powerful, that even sans Mjolnir he'd "rip apart" a fully amped Nova Prime?

Nova

Originally posted by dmills
Fair enough I guess.

I see. So in your opinion Thor is so much more powerful, that even sans Mjolnir he'd "rip apart" a fully amped Nova Prime?

I think Thor's more powerful. That doesn't mean the gap's very large.

In close combat, yes, I think Thor would tear apart Richard if he tries a head on approach.

Let me put it this way: It'd be in his best interest to stay out of Thor's reach.

Assuming he's grounded and not using energy attacks.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Thor's more powerful. That doesn't mean the gap's very large.

In close combat, yes, I think Thor would tear apart Richard if he tries a head on approach.

Let me put it this way: It'd be in his best interest to stay out of Thor's reach.

Assuming he's grounded and not using energy attacks.

Agreed

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Loeb and Breevort hinted at other shit going on in this fight besides strength at the time and one of them mentioned that if you look closely enough, you'd see it. Guess I'm just missing it or it's the over the head wielding Mjolnir scene. only to soothe the anal fissures thor fans received, none of that stuff happened in the comic. red hulk beat the piss out of him fair and square cause if there was any sort of draining, red hulk would have repeated it with more emphasis the next issue for found two

Originally posted by psycho gundam
only to soothe the anal fissures thor fans received, none of that stuff happened in the comic. red hulk beat the piss out of him fair and square cause if there was any sort of draining, red hulk would have repeated it with more emphasis the next issue for found two

Whatever you say bud.

It was fun watching Loeb back track faster than any other writer. He pretty much admitted in an interview that Thor >>> Rulk I believe and soon after, Thor beat the shit out of Rulk in the rematch. Of course, this shit is prepared months in advance despite it not seeming like it.

I'd be very interested in reading, or hearing what Loeb had to say on the subject.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I think Thor's more powerful. That doesn't mean the gap's very large.

In close combat, yes, I think Thor would tear apart Richard if he tries a head on approach.

Let me put it this way: It'd be in his best interest to stay out of Thor's reach.

Assuming he's grounded and not using energy attacks.

Ah, but you'd have to write off Richard's own current durability and damage soak. Not to mention his huge speed advantage and his own class 100+ strength. Up close Thor would still be getting speed blitzed with gravity amped class 100 punches, optic blasts and compressed gravimetric pulses to his dome. Energy siphoning is also a viable option.

Originally posted by dmills
Ah, but you'd have to write off Richard's own current durability and damage soak. Not to mention his huge speed advantage and his own class 100+ strength. Up close Thor would still be getting speed blitzed with gravity amped class 100 punches, optic blasts and compressed gravimetric pulses to his dome. Energy siphoning is also a viable option.

Why would I have to write off Prime's durability and damage soak? I've read almost his entire run since Annihilation. If Thor punches, he will be better off not getting hit.

Rider's not blitzing Thor unless it's a ramming bull rush type tactic. Rider's strong, Thor's tougher.

Is this Richard Rider vs. Thor, or you as Nova Prime vs. Thor? I can start coming out with scenarios as well.

Evidence to support him siphoning Thor?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why would I have to write off Prime's durability and damage soak? I've read almost his entire run since Annihilation. If Thor punches, he will be better off not getting hit.

Rider's not blitzing Thor unless it's a ramming bull rush type tactic. Rider's strong, Thor's tougher.

Is this Richard Rider vs. Thor, or you as Nova Prime vs. Thor? I can start coming out with scenarios as well.

Evidence to support him siphoning Thor? You could say that about every character. What I get from you -correct me if I'm wrong- is that Rider can't stand a physical exchange with Thor for *any* length of time. That's demonstrably false if only for the fact that he's done it before. And as a much weaker incarnation at that. Even took a hit from the Hammer and was just fine. So for someone to suggest that he can't engage Thor at close range -as if h2h were the only option- is lowballing Rider imo. However if your contention is that Rider can't stand a *prolonged* purely physical encounter then I agree.

For the record I'm not disputing that Thor is far stronger then Rider. I'm only arguing that his strength edge won't be enough to help him in this particular scenario.

I'm not debating anything because the "debate" was over before it started. Thor gets his ass kicked in this particular scenario. I'm only taking exception to a particular statement made by you, but it has no real effect on the outcome of the stips of this particular thread one way or another.

He's done it before to someone magic based. Also he shares a powerset with Garthan Saal and Powerhouse, both of whom have numerous direct energy leeching feats/showings.

Bookmarked. I'll reply later. Gotta go take a shit and then eat.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Bookmarked. I'll reply later. Gotta go take a shit and then eat. Effing classic!

Originally posted by dmills
Ah, but you'd have to write off Richard's own current durability and damage soak. Not to mention his huge speed advantage and his own class 100+ strength. Up close Thor would still be getting speed blitzed with gravity amped class 100 punches, optic blasts and compressed gravimetric pulses to his dome. Energy siphoning is also a viable option.

and yet your writing off Thor's ability to react to speedblitz (Glaidator), and that though few and far inbetween, Thor does has some speed feats. Thor's crazy ass durability and energy soak (fighting in the sun and surviving the blasts from celestials), His ability to generate an omi-directional Godblast, his class 100+ strengths that IMO dwarfs Nova Prime's strength. His thousands of years of battle experience..

So yeah, I agree with Rage, if Nova takes this up close he gets killed. He can and will win if he takes it long range thbough.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
and yet your writing off Thor's ability to react to speedblitz (Glaidator), and that though few and far inbetween, Thor does has some speed feats. Thor's crazy ass durability and energy soak (fighting in the sun and surviving the blasts from celestials), His ability to generate an omi-directional Godblast, his class 100+ strengths that IMO dwarfs Nova Prime's strength. His thousands of years of battle experience..

So yeah, I agree with Rage, if Nova takes this up close he gets killed. He can and will win if he takes it long range thbough.

Dear God.

It's unfair to take Mjolnir from Thor in a forum match. It's as much a part of Thor as is his fists. This thread is a special case since someone actually asked for it. Thor gets tooled here...

Nova can't even handle Norin Radd
What makes you think he can handle Thor with or without Mjolnir?

Originally posted by SasuOna
Nova can't even handle Norin Radd
What makes you think he can handle Thor with or without Mjolnir? Phuck, now I REALLY regret making this thread. Rage you get the 10 bucks just for me being stupid enough to bother creating it. You got a paypal account?

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
and yet your writing off Thor's ability to react to speedblitz (Glaidator), and that though few and far inbetween, Thor does has some speed feats. Thor's crazy ass durability and energy soak (fighting in the sun and surviving the blasts from celestials), His ability to generate an omi-directional Godblast, his class 100+ strengths that IMO dwarfs Nova Prime's strength. His thousands of years of battle experience..

So yeah, I agree with Rage, if Nova takes this up close he gets killed. He can and will win if he takes it long range thbough.

All of this isn't the normal portrayal of Thor. Less have dropped him.

Originally posted by carver9
All of this isn't the normal portrayal of Thor. Less have dropped him. Ding ding ding ding... we have a winner here folks.

Originally posted by SasuOna
Nova can't even handle Norin Radd
What makes you think he can handle Thor with or without Mjolnir?

Norrin Radd is stronger than Hammerless Thor by a quite significant amount.

Norrin is not physically stronger than Thor, with or without Mjolnir. Norrin should have the edge in power, but no, it's not by a significant amount and I can certainly debate the point if I were so inclined to.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Norrin is not physically stronger than Thor, with or without Mjolnir. Norrin should have the edge in power, but no, it's not by a significant amount and I can certainly debate the point if I were so inclined to.

I am talking more total power rather than arm wrestling, and sans Mjolnir I would definitely give Surfer a very, very considerable advantage in a fight between the two.

Even if we assume Nova is an idiot or cant stand up to Thor in close combat he does still have Worldmind right?.Who I will assume with will instruct him to blast the shit out of Thor at range.

Like I said, if Thor's fighting like a brick and Nova stays out of range, his chances of winning improve. I don't think it's that far fetched to assume Nova can put Thor down, eventually.

Originally posted by Q99
I am talking more total power rather than arm wrestling, and sans Mjolnir I would definitely give Surfer a very, very considerable advantage in a fight between the two.

If you want to count something like his Godly Essence, Thor would have the edge imo, but besides that, Norrin should have more on tap. Throw in Thor's weather control and no, Norrin doesn't have a significant advantage in power. Not at all. Thor's lightning alone is incredibly powerful.

Sans Mjolnir, Surfer should get about 6-7/10 against Thor on average. Contrary to popular believe, Norrin usually flies around and blasts shit in the face. I'm going to ignore Thor taking Surfer's attacks in stride, and handing him his ass during Blood and Thunder. Not the norm unless specified.

We'll see how they match up in the following months. Norrin's coming to Asgard next week. That will give us some idea as to how the battle will go. Hopefully Fraction can just give us a good fight. I have a feeling Thor will lose however. Being noticeably weakened and all.

Using his Godly essence without the hammer clearly drained him.

Using it would leave him in a vulnerable position, if it failed to take his opponent out...

And, as Nova Prime was within range of Big G's large area attack in Annihilation and survived it........

Originally posted by SasuOna
Nova can't even handle Norin Radd
What makes you think he can handle Thor with or without Mjolnir?

Do ure homework...

Why do you so strongly disagree with that comment? It's a pretty accurate assessment based on how the two have done against High Heralds. Nova's not going to do noticeably better against the big boys than Iron Man has in the past. Can he beat them? Possibly, but they'll be blood and tears. I'll freely acknowledge that Nova Prime is more powerful and has noticeably higher space cheese feats if that's what you care about. You can just agree to disagree with that part, and continue on with the rest of the debate if it bothers you so much.

Okay, I'll take a look.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why do you so strongly disagree with that comment? It's a pretty accurate assessment based on how the two have done against High Heralds. Nova's not going to do noticeably better against the big boys than Iron Man has in the past. Can he beat them? Possibly, but they'll be blood and tears. I'll freely acknowledge that Nova Prime is more powerful and has noticeably higher space cheese feats if that's what you care about. You can just agree to disagree with that part, and continue on with the rest of the debate if it bothers you so much.

Okay, I'll take a look. Oh, ok I see what you were saying. But when pitted against the other HH, Rider only has fought what, 2 of them? Thor like the 4th day he had his powers and Norrin under dubious circumstances. I guess you could say Glads as well, but again that's pre annihilation.

So basically you have the Norrin fight. That's legit, but it should be noted that IMO, Rider had the "physical" advantage in that tussle, although Norrin was clearly portrayed as superior with the writer wank and all. I've raised that point in the past, but it always seems to come down to arguing over grunts, groans and facial expressions. What's indisputable though is the fact that Rider wasn't firing on all cylinders. The WM had been secretly siphoning off Nova force from Rich to empower other centurions. That's confirmed on panel here;

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305919886760.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305919852684.jpg

But fine, even allowing for a legit Surfer defeat, Norrin is a trinity character so a loss there is no biggie in my book. That's one. His one other legit loss came from Lord Mar-vell, a trans level character. I guess you could include the bug, but it/he was clearly amped during Annihilation. Rider ultimately prevailed. So with that considered, if we had to go solely on head to heads with the biggest of the big dogs, would it be fair to say Nova gets an incomplete?

Here you go bro. I had to dig a bit through the respect forum. Not a whole lot going happening on the Nova front these days lol!

killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=400279&pagenumber=5#post13312417

Originally posted by dmills
But when pitted against the other HH, Rider only has fought what, 2 of them? Thor like the 4th day he had his powers and Norrin under dubious circumstances. I guess you could say Glads as well, but again that's pre annihilation. So basically you have the Norrin fight. That's legit, but it should be noted that Imo, Rider had the "physical" advantage in that tussle, although Norrin was clearly portrayed as superior with the writer wank and all. I've raised that point in the past, but it always seems to come down to arguing over grunts, groans and facial expressions. What's indisputable though is the fact that Rider wasn't firing on all cylinders. The WM had been secretly siphoning off Nova force from Rich to empower other centurions. That's confirmed on panel here;

I'd say 4 -Surfer, Thor, Gladiator, Annihilus- of them. 5 if he was one of the New Warrior's present against Terrax. I can't remember.

Have you noticed that Rider performance against High Heralds is more or less the same? That's what I use to judge a character. It doesn't matter how many upgrades a character receives, unless it actually bumps him up in comparison to how he has performed in the past against similarly powerful opponents. Just thought I'd share my reasoning.

Why? Because one of his arms were more outstretched? Be serious bro, you don't really think that was the intention do you? You'd be insulting your own intelligence imho.

Originally posted by dmills
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305919886760.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305919852684.jpg

Oh, good find. Never noticed the pre Galactus tidbit and I assumed it was post. I personally doubt the power of five Centurions would make any difference in a battle against Surfer or Thor, but it helps him save face.

Originally posted by dmills
But fine, even allowing for a legit Surfer defeat, Norrin is a trinity character so a loss there is no biggie in my book. That's one. His one other legit loss came from Lord Mar-vell, a trans level character. I guess you could include the bug, but it/he was clearly amped during Annihilation. Rider ultimately prevailed. So with that considered, if we had to go solely on head to heads, would it be fair to say Nova gets an incomplete?

Lol, I don't understand, do you think me placing him in the same tier as Iron Man was meant as an insult? There's no need to list Richard's resume to me. I'm not underestimating the character. Iron Man has held his own against Sentry, fought Surfer to a double knock out, defeated the Hulk, stalemated Hercules, gained the advantage over Namor etc. It's an accurate assessment that Richards would not fare noticeably better against such opponents.

It should be noted, the amp that the Quantum Bands gave Annihilus was lost when Richards killed him. And his own personal reserves were drained from being at ground zero of the "Herald My Rage!" blast I believe.

Originally posted by dmills
Here you go bro. I had to dig a bit through the respect forum. Not a whole lot going happening on the Nova front these days lol!

killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=400279&pagenumber=5#post13312417

Based on a quick survey, I'm guessing Nova can absorb/redirect some energy based attacks from Thor -if he decides to use them- unless it's a quantity outside of his capabilities.

I wouldn't have entertained direct energy drainage against Thor without some magic in the past, but post Rulk, I guess it's possible. Of course, that Red idiot must have done in a way for Thor too not notice and magically, Thor performed better in the second round. The consistency of Loeb.

Thor loses the bulk of his powerset without Mjolnir, most importantly flight.

It's definitely inconsistent, but Thor has illustrated flight without using Mjolnir in the past.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd say 4 -Surfer, Thor, Gladiator, Annihilus- of them. 5 if he was one of the New Warrior's present against Terrax. I can't remember.

Have you noticed that Rider performance against High Heralds is more or less the same? That's what I use to judge a character. It doesn't matter how many upgrades a character receives, unless it actually bumps him up in comparison to how he has performed in the past against similarly powerful opponents. Just thought I'd share my reasoning.

Why? Because one of his arms were more outstretched? Be serious bro, you don't really think that was the intention do you? You'd be insulting your own intelligence imho.



Oh, good find. Never noticed the pre Galactus tidbit and I assumed it was post. I personally doubt the power of five Centurions would make any difference in a battle against Surfer or Thor, but it helps him save face.



Lol, I don't understand, do you think me placing him in the same tier as Iron Man was meant as an insult? There's no need to list Richard's resume to me. I'm not underestimating the character. Iron Man has held his own against Sentry, fought Surfer to a double knock out, defeated the Hulk, stalemated Hercules, gained the advantage over Namor etc. It's an accurate assessment that Richards would not fare noticeably better against such opponents.

It should be noted, the amp that the Quantum Bands gave Annihilus was lost when Richards killed him. And his own personal reserves were drained from being at ground zero of the "Herald My Rage!" blast I believe. Who are the others?

Lulz. You're a smart cat. Of course its phucking stupid, but that's the same type of logic being applied to say it was a stomp of epic proportions in favor of Norrin.

Ah, the eternal struggle between comic book feats/showings, character portrayal and powerset. In a vacuum you'd be right. But for example, if I were to make a thread "Nova Prime vs Iron Man", most people would take one look at it and go "wtf? Rider stomps". That's because portrayal and power-set wise, he should! But in the comics, you're essentially right. I'd even go so far as to actually say that Stark has far better showings vs the big dogs. But that's why we can't exclusively with one or the other. Shyte's a case by case thing big dog.

Originally posted by dmills
Who are the others?

The other New Warrior's? I remember Namorita, Speedball, Firestar, Marvel Boy, and Night Thrasher. Not sure if anyone else was present. They faced him on two different occasions, the second including the intervention of the Fantastic Four. Personally, I don't recall Nova doing anything noteworthy, so he probably got slapped around.

Originally posted by dmills
Lulz. You're a smart cat. Of course its phucking stupid, but that's the same type of logic being applied to say it was a stomp of epic proportions in favor of Norrin.

It wasn't a stomp. Not my definition of it. That would be Iron Man vs. Thor when the Odinson gave him a proverbial two piece and a biscuit.

But the writers would have had to include charts, diagrams and shit to make it any clearer than they already did that Norrin is noticeably more powerful than Nova Prime.

Originally posted by dmills
Ah, the eternal struggle between comic book feats/showings, character portrayal and powerset. In a vacuum you'd be right. But for example, if I were to make a thread "Nova Prime vs Iron Man", most people would take one look at it and go "wtf? Rider stomps". That's because portrayal and power-set wise, he should! But in the comics, you're essentially right. I'd even go so far as to actually say that Stark has far better showings vs the big dogs. But that's why we can't exclusively with one or the other. Shyte's a case by case thing big dog.

I consider how characters are consistently portrayed in the comic books to be very important and should be one of the main things to take into account before deciding who wins a battle.

Well, I personally wouldn't say Nova Prime would stomp Iron Man -I'd be fine with giving him the edge- and I highly doubt DnA would write it that way as well. For what it's worth, I didn't get that vibe from the Civil War tie-in they wrote.

Iron Man is considered to be a power house and originally illustrated the traits that made Nova formidable -in my book- despite lacking the power edge. Quick thinking, on the spot adaption etc.

Stark does have more appearances, so it balances it out.

Sorry for the late reply. Forgot about this thread.

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Thor loses the bulk of his powerset without Mjolnir, most importantly flight.
God blast is really the only power he doesnt have without mjolnir

Which ever way you meant it, you're incorrect.

lulz and smh big time at some the responses in this thread, there used to be a time on KMC, where being reasonable was an admirable quality........

Nova for win

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The other New Warrior's? I remember Namorita, Speedball, Firestar, Marvel Boy, and Night Thrasher. Not sure if anyone else was present. They faced him on two different occasions, the second including the intervention of the Fantastic Four. Personally, I don't recall Nova doing anything noteworthy, so he probably got slapped around.



It wasn't a stomp. Not my definition of it. That would be Iron Man vs. Thor when the Odinson gave him a proverbial two piece and a biscuit.

But the writers would have had to include charts, diagrams and shit to make it any clearer than they already did that Norrin is noticeably more powerful than Nova Prime.



I consider how characters are consistently portrayed in the comic books to be very important and should be one of the main things to take into account before deciding who wins a battle.

Well, I personally wouldn't say Nova Prime would stomp Iron Man -I'd be fine with giving him the edge- and I highly doubt DnA would write it that way as well. For what it's worth, I didn't get that vibe from the Civil War tie-in they wrote.

Iron Man is considered to be a power house and originally illustrated the traits that made Nova formidable -in my book- despite lacking the power edge. Quick thinking, on the spot adaption etc.

Stark does have more appearances, so it balances it out.

Sorry for the late reply. Forgot about this thread.

That's Odinforce Thor that "stomped" Tony.

I'm not sure why you got that vibe in the civil-war tie in, but DnA sure as hell made it clear that Nova was on a level that just a lone Tony Stark has no chance in hell going toe to toe with.

http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/?action=view&current=Novav401-page23.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/More%20Nova/Novav402-page10.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/More%20Nova/Novav402-page11.jpg

Maybe some of us are selling a Thor w/o Mjolnir a little short... But u are doing the same ten fold...
I'm almost tempted to make NP Vs IM thread... But what's the point? I'm sorry, Tony would get buttraped...

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's Odinforce Thor that "stomped" Tony.
with.

Either that was before JMS intended Thor to have the Odin Force or a Thor that did not use any of the Odin Force against Stark. Pick one of the two. Either way, it's fine by me. Why the quotations?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I'm not sure why you got that vibe in the civil-war tie in, but DnA sure as hell made it clear that Nova was on a level that just a lone Tony Stark has no chance in hell going toe to toe

http://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/?action=view&current=Novav401-page23.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/More%20Nova/Novav402-page10.jpg
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff492/twinzeeto/More%20Nova/Novav402-page11.jpg

I'll admit, Nova did get more praise than I had remembered. Maybe I sold Nova short due to memory, but you are sure as hell doing the same to Stark. You're interpretation is something I definitely disagree with.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Maybe some of us are selling a Thor w/o Mjolnir a little short... But u are doing the same ten fold...
I'm almost tempted to make NP Vs IM thread... But what's the point? I'm sorry, Tony would get buttraped...

I'm treating Nova with respect. He inhabits the tier of entities that can make a name for themselves, but won't be beating the higher end heralds most of the time. I think that's fair based on what I've seen of Nova.

Depends on the Iron Man incarnation but if you think Nova would currently stomp Iron Man, you're off base imho.

I honestly don't understand why you think Stark giving Nova a fight is somehow an insult. He's not a first tier power house like Thor or Surfer but then again, he doesn't need to be.

He's given beings as tough or tougher than Nova a run for their money.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Either that was before JMS intended Thor to have the Odin Force or a Thor that did not use any of the Odin Force against Stark. Pick one of the two. Either way, it's fine by me. Why the quotations?



I'll admit, Nova did get more praise than I had remembered. Maybe I sold Nova short due to memory, but you are sure as hell doing the same to Stark. You're interpretation is something I definitely disagree with.



I'm treating Nova with respect. He inhabits the tier of entities that can make a name for themselves, but won't be beating the higher end heralds most of the time. I think that's fair based on what I've seen of Nova.

Depends on the Iron Man incarnation but if you think Nova would currently stomp Iron Man, you're off base imho.

I honestly don't understand why you think Stark giving Nova a fight is somehow an insult. He's not a first tier power house like Thor or Surfer but then again, he doesn't need to be.

He's given beings as tough or tougher than Nova a run for their money.

You might as well continue this in the IM Vs NP thread that Carver just created... We've derailed this one a little much already...

in reference to Odinforce Thor, Tony said "you've been working out" as if Blondie got some kind of upgrade.. at least in my view that's what the writer tried to convey.

True enough.

Me and Dmills kind of last track of the main point. Usually I try to keep on track but I don't particularly care about this topic.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
True enough.

Me and Dmills kind of last track of the main point. Usually I try to keep on track but I don't particularly care about this topic.


oh puh leese... any mention of Thor we know ure lurking in the shadows!

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd say 4 -Surfer, Thor, Gladiator, Annihilus- of them. 5 if he was one of the New Warrior's present against Terrax. I can't remember.

Have you noticed that Rider performance against High Heralds is more or less the same? That's what I use to judge a character. It doesn't matter how many upgrades a character receives, unless it actually bumps him up in comparison to how he has performed in the past against similarly powerful opponents. Just thought I'd share my reasoning.

Why? Because one of his arms were more outstretched? Be serious bro, you don't really think that was the intention do you? You'd be insulting your own intelligence imho.



Oh, good find. Never noticed the pre Galactus tidbit and I assumed it was post. I personally doubt the power of five Centurions would make any difference in a battle against Surfer or Thor, but it helps him save face.



Lol, I don't understand, do you think me placing him in the same tier as Iron Man was meant as an insult? There's no need to list Richard's resume to me. I'm not underestimating the character. Iron Man has held his own against Sentry, fought Surfer to a double knock out, defeated the Hulk, stalemated Hercules, gained the advantage over Namor etc. It's an accurate assessment that Richards would not fare noticeably better against such opponents.

It should be noted, the amp that the Quantum Bands gave Annihilus was lost when Richards killed him. And his own personal reserves were drained from being at ground zero of the "Herald My Rage!" blast I believe.



Based on a quick survey, I'm guessing Nova can absorb/redirect some energy based attacks from Thor -if he decides to use them- unless it's a quantity outside of his capabilities.

I wouldn't have entertained direct energy drainage against Thor without some magic in the past, but post Rulk, I guess it's possible. Of course, that Red idiot must have done in a way for Thor too not notice and magically, Thor performed better in the second round. The consistency of Loeb.

I had missed a couple of points from this post from earlier.

Picking up from his performance vs HH. Again, currently it's just Norrin. And its under a writing tandem that is known for depicting powerful characters conservatively. Current Nova in the hands of other writers is seemingly portrayed as more powerful, i.e. holding back his blows vs current Hulk, basically ignoring a punch from Korg before deciding to "end it". In Secret Avengers he's portrayed as pretty uber, as was Cap when he came into possession of Nova's powers. So a writers particular style plays a large role in how a given character is portrayed.

In terms of overall power, Consider this;

this is the same power source that the skrulls, Kree and Shi-ar all wanted to possess or control for one reason or another.

The Luphinoids wanted it to use as a weapon against Galactus.

Empowered The Sphinx

Supernova

Hell, Rider himself regularly blasts open holes in time/space to get from a to b. It sounds like hyperbole yes, but in reality his stargates are just that, massive concentrations of gravity that tear open holes in space/time. The backlash of which are apparently powerful enough to wreck planets.

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305947956593.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305947973899.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305947989043.jpg

Create gravity buffers between planets to prevent mass destruction from the close proximity;

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305948575257.jpg http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/th_1305948478631.jpg

(A proxy feat. Technically the WM made the buffer, but it draws its power from the Nova Force that is inside of Rider. This is merely an example of how much power he wields at his disposal)

I'll stop here for now, but you get the point. Portrayal alone doesn't always give a full depiction. Neither does power set or feats in and of themselves. All of it must be considered.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
True enough.

Me and Dmills kind of last track of the main point. Usually I try to keep on track but I don't particularly care about this topic. Yeah I'm done with it. It was done tongue in cheek at first, but I just realized it hit 70+ replies!

Originally posted by carver9
All of this isn't the normal portrayal of Thor. Less have dropped him.

ahh yes, lets take his sucky showings while disregarding everything else. classic Carver.

1. He has always...ALWAYS beaten Gladiator so yeah, thats normal for Thor..or does that hurt too much? Thor VS future gladiator" Thor 2 - Gladiator 0, Eric masterson thor 1 - Gladiator 0.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHLOLOLOLLLOOLOLOLOLOL


2. Sun, celestials, etc. rule is more than 3 times which he has, so normal

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
ahh yes, lets take his sucky showings while disregarding everything else. classic Carver.

1. He has always...ALWAYS beaten Gladiator who likes to blitz to no avail.. so yeah, thats normal for Thor..or does that hurt too much? Thor VS future gladiator" Thor 2 - Gladiator 0, Eric masterson thor 1 - Gladiator 0.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHLOLOLOLLLOOLOLOLOLOL


2. Sun, celestials, etc. rule is more than 3 times which he has, so normal

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo


http://members.multimania.nl/dutchdoom/Scans/Thor_2001_%23035_06.jpg

http://members.multimania.nl/dutchdoom/Scans/Thor_2001_%23035_07.jpg

Looks like a loss to me.