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Who wins?

Apollo.

WM.

lmao

WM. Stomp.

^ Ionic Wonderman hasn't done anything meriting a stomp of Apollo. <--- I post this understanding that you have no proof but ample motivation to suggest otherwise.

He's one shot Thor. More than enough to warrant a easy win over a classic Rogue level character.

Simon 8-9/10

No problems with WM winning, I think, but the lowballing of Apollo never ceases to amaze me. I've been put into defense on him numerous times despite not really caring about him as a character, by people saying that characters like Namor or Thing would beat him easily.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He's one shot Thor. More than enough to warrant a easy win over a classic Rogue level character. Laying out Thor for a moment with a suckershot doesn't warrant that. And classic Rogue doesn't one shot planet-killing asteroids. It's clear you aren't even putting any effort into your trolling so there's no point in deconstructing it... oh, wait... already did. My bads. Originally posted by Digi
No problems with WM winning, I think, but the lowballing of Apollo never ceases to amaze me. I've been put into defense on him numerous times despite not really caring about him as a character, by people saying that characters like Namor or Thing would beat him easily. This.

Originally posted by ODG
Laying out Thor for a moment with a suckershot doesn't warrant that. And classic Rogue doesn't one shot planet-killing asteroids. It's clear you aren't even putting any effort into your trolling so there's no point in deconstructing it... oh, wait... already did. My bads. This.

He dropped Thor with a gut check for several pages. Simon would punch Apollo's head clean off his shoulders.

Apollo doesn't one shot planet killing asteroids either... so I guess him and Rogue have that in common. She however doesn't get over powered by two horses. Apollo lacks the strength or speed feats to compete with top tiers from Marvel or DC and his stamina is terrible. He burns himself out at the drop of a hat.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He dropped Thor with a gut check for several pages. Simon would punch Apollo's head clean off his shoulders.

Apollo doesn't one shot planet killing asteroids either... so I guess him and Rogue have that in common. She however doesn't get over powered by two horses. Apollo lacks the strength or speed feats to compete with top tiers from Marvel or DC and his stamina is terrible. He burns himself out at the drop of a hat.

...there's some selection bias in holding that opinion. The times he's been drained quickly have usually been with mitigating circumstances/settings, or an admission earlier in the issue that his "charge" is already somewhat low. It also ignore the times he's performed high-end feats that have left him none the worse for wear.

He possesses numerous feats that would likely KO classic rogue. And I don't even think it's questionable.

Lack the feats to contend with top tiers, yes. Agreed. No one's pitting him against the Supermans and Thors of the world. But until recently, Simon was seen as straddling the power line between high meta and low herald (with most placing him in the latter). This isn't incredibly lopsided (and remember I'm cool with Simon winning).

Originally posted by Digi
...there's some selection bias in holding that opinion. The times he's been drained quickly have usually been with mitigating circumstances/settings, or an admission earlier in the issue that his "charge" is already somewhat low. It also ignore the times he's performed high-end feats that have left him none the worse for wear.

He possesses numerous feats that would likely KO classic rogue. And I don't even think it's questionable.

Lack the feats to contend with top tiers, yes. Agreed. No one's pitting him against the Supermans and Thors of the world. But until recently, Simon was seen as straddling the power line between high meta and low herald (with most placing him in the latter). This isn't incredibly lopsided (and remember I'm cool with Simon winning).

I don't see it that way at all. What is Apollo's best strength feat? Lifting a sky scrapper? Well... Wonder Man as lifted an entire island. That's the level of power discrepancy between Apollo and a Wonder Man level character, facing him off against planet busters like Superman or Thor is an even greater mismatch. Strength. Speed. Durability. Good combat showings against established characters. Wonder Man's feats are above Apollo's... and not by a little bit.

Aside from you wanting him to be a contender, what has Apollo done that suggest Thor or Namor wouldn't easily beat him, which you previously stated you have a problem with?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He dropped Thor with a gut check for several pages. Simon would punch Apollo's head clean off his shoulders. Thor being downed momentarily by a cheapshot doesn't vault Simon's status to Apollo curbstomping levels. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Apollo doesn't one shot planet killing asteroids either... so I guess him and Rogue have that in common. She however doesn't get over powered by two horses. Apollo lacks the strength or speed feats to compete with top tiers from Marvel or DC and his stamina is terrible. He burns himself out at the drop of a hat. Read Authority. Your lowballing isn't even updated to New 52. Which is two levels of trolling: one conscious, the other just unintentionally absentminded.

Originally posted by ODG
Thor being downed momentarily by a cheapshot doesn't vault Simon's status to Apollo curbstomping levels. Read Authority. Your lowballing isn't even updated to New 52. Which is two levels of trolling: one conscious, the other just unintentionally absentminded.

"Cheap shot" or other wise it shows what happens if Simon can connect cleanly with a blow. He can one shot characters with far superior durability than Apollo with a gut shot. If he lands a clean haymaker like that to Apollo's head, he'll kill him.

DCnU Apollo is a completely different character than the Wildstorm version and his feats aren't transferable. If you'd like to use the DCnU version that is fine by me, but that makes this fight and even bigger mismatch.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
"Cheap shot" or other wise it shows what happens if Simon can connect cleanly with a blow. He can one shot characters with far superior durability than Apollo with a gut shot. If he lands a clean haymaker like that to Apollo's head, he'll kill him. When people aren't expecting it. I agree that if Wonderman cheapshotted Apollo, he'd at least down him for moments. That doesn't mean hed take his head cleanly off. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
DCnU Apollo is a completely different character than the Wildstorm version and his feats aren't transferable. If you'd like to use the DCnU version that is fine by me, but that makes this fight and even bigger mismatch. I don't know what is in the e-water today, but being dense isn't helping your argument. Thread default rules are current characters. Do yourself a favor and stop acting obtuse. And, no, there would be absolutely no point to quibbling over such a minor (but clear) gaffe on your part.

Originally posted by ODG
When people aren't expecting it. I agree that if Wonderman cheapshotted Apollo, he'd at least down him for moments. That doesn't mean hed take his head cleanly off. I don't know what is in the e-water today, but being dense isn't helping your argument. Thread default rules are current characters. Do yourself a favor and stop acting obtuse.

Because expecting a punch increase your durability?

Don't be daft. The rules may specify that we use the most current iteration of the characters in these threads unless specified, but in practice it is a different thing entirely. It's been more than a year since the DC relaunch, and virtually every thread where the OP didn't explicit specify DCnU in the title or OP, the thread creator intended for the fight to be against the most common / well known iteration of the character. You post enough to know that. Almost every time we get a thread like this, the op intends for it to be pre DCnU Batman, or Wildstorm Apollo, or what have you. I would be shocked if the Apollo the op had in mind for this thread was the DCnU version... and if it is he gets his ass kicked because he has done virtually nothing and only has thirteen some odd appearances under his belt.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because expecting a punch increase your durability?

Don't be daft. The rules may specify that we use the most current iteration of the characters in these threads unless specified, but in practice it is a different thing entirely. It's been more than a year since the DC relaunch, and virtually every thread where the OP didn't explicit specify DCnU in the title or OP, the thread creator intended for the fight to be against the most common / well known iteration of the character. You post enough to know that. Almost every time we get a thread like this, the op intends for it to be pre DCnU Batman, or Wildstorm Apollo, or what have you. I would be shocked if the Apollo the op had in mind for this thread was the DCnU version... and if it is he gets his ass kicked because he has done virtually nothing and only has thirteen some odd appearances under his belt. Because expecting a punch and properly bracing for it increases your ability to tank and withstand it. I'm not holding your hand over this. You tell me whether or not it's more or less likely to knock someone out by cheapshotting them.

I post enough to know that people are consistently referring to current incarnations in new threads and making references to (or asking about if it's about) classic incarnations because they can't help but discuss them. I post enough to know that it's in old threads created before the new 52 where most of the pre-52 incarnations are discussed. I also post enough to know that this is the KMC rule to use current characters.

I also know that when I mentioned Apollo busting a planet killer, you didn't dismiss it as being new 52 and irrelevant. You acted like it simply never happened. So drop the pretense. We both know what happened.

Originally posted by ODG
Because expecting a punch and properly bracing for it increases your ability to tank and withstand it. I'm not holding your hand over this. You tell me whether or not it's more or less likely to knock someone out by cheapshotting them.

I post enough to know that people are consistently referring to current incarnations in new threads and making references to (or asking about if it's about) classic incarnations because they can't help but discuss them. I post enough to know that it's in old threads created before the new 52 where most of the pre-52 incarnations are discussed. I also post enough to know that this is the KMC rule to use current characters.

I also know that when I mentioned Apollo busting a planet killer, you didn't dismiss it as being new 52 and irrelevant. You acted like it simply never happened. So drop the pretense. We both know what happened.

My experience as social drinker, is that being limp is more effective in mitigating the force of a blow, then bunching your muscles together and bracing for it.

A cheap shot is usually effective because you catch some off guard and they they catch the full impact of the blow with out "rolling with it" or moving away enough reduce the force. "Bracing" for a blow is a terrible idea, that's how people break bones.

Apollo arbitrarily determined the alleged "planetary killer" statues of the meteorite, and since he isn't a Astrologist that is just something he pulled out if his ass. If you are going to take that at face value then you should know that I ate the biggest pizza in the world today! Also a 2 mile Asteroid is a world ender... which isn't that big. Every top tier form Marvel / DC that can fly could deal with that easily... and they wouldn't need to sun dip to do it.

We use what ever characters the OP has in mind when he creates the thread. The rules don't really matter in that regard. We are supposed to being using the DCnU version since he didn't clarify... but I almost guarantee that he means the Wildstorm version, just like every other thread creator. I suppose we could sit here and wait for the OP to clarify... but why bother?

Does current Apollo have any decent feats?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
My experience as social drinker, is that being limp is more effective in mitigating the force of a blow, then bunching your muscles together and bracing for it.

A cheap shot is usually effective because you catch some off guard and they they catch the full impact of the blow with out "rolling with it" or moving away enough reduce the force. "Bracing" for a blow is a terrible idea, that's how people break bones. I am not going over cheapshots and bracing and rolling with blows in comics. Wonderman once downed Thor with a single cheapshot. Wonderman once got his a$$ beat by Thor despite hitting him multipe times in an actual fight. Draw whatever conclusions you want. Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Apollo arbitrarily determined the alleged "planetary killer" statues of the meteorite, and since he isn't a Astrologist that is just something he pulled out if his ass. If you are going to take that at face value then you should know that I ate the biggest pizza in the world today! Also a 2 mile Asteroid is a world ender... which isn't that big. Every top tier form Marvel / DC that can fly could deal with that easily... and they wouldn't need to sun dip to do it.

We use what ever characters the OP has in mind when he creates the thread. The rules don't really matter in that regard. We are supposed to being using the DCnU version since he didn't clarify... but I almost guarantee that he means the Wildstorm version, just like every other thread creator. I suppose we could sit here and wait for the OP to clarify... but why bother? Denigrating the feat hasn't magically imbued Rogue with a similar one. So your original estimation hasn't even been remedied. Apollo didn't need a sundip either.

I'm not retracing your gaffe repeatedly. Nobody cares, and shockingly enough, neither do I.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't see it that way at all. What is Apollo's best strength feat? Lifting a sky scrapper? Well... Wonder Man as lifted an entire island. That's the level of power discrepancy between Apollo and a Wonder Man level character, facing him off against planet busters like Superman or Thor is an even greater mismatch. Strength. Speed. Durability. Good combat showings against established characters. Wonder Man's feats are above Apollo's... and not by a little bit.

Aside from you wanting him to be a contender, what has Apollo done that suggest Thor or Namor wouldn't easily beat him, which you previously stated you have a problem with?

Speedblitzing Earth to destroy an elder god and walking away like it was nothing. Destroying a space station with "a docking bay the size of a continent." So, planet-sized, easily. The skyscaper feat (in relation to Rogue - comparing to WM is strawman-ish, since I never said Apollo would win). His fight with Cpt. Atom. Zipping through a cityscape multiple times before the light trail from his earlier paths has disappeared. He can fly around the world in under a minute by best feat estimates...not Superman level but certainly >>> any meta. Hanging out inside the sun which, despite being his power source, is a ****ton of heat and explosive energy to endure. Covering the entire moon in heat vision.

Those aren't classic Rogue level. She doesn't one-shot planet-sized spaceships and zip through multiple baddies in a single panel. Apples and oranges. Apollo is legit low herald. Nothing more, but deservedly there. If you disagree, those are most of his best feats (not all, but they're fairly indicative) so at that point we just don't see eye to eye on the same showings.

srug

I admit to being somewhat impressed by Apollo's DCnU showing against Atrocitus, so depending on which incarnation of Apollo this is, I would would definitely give the DCnU version a good chance at holding his own.

As for being unaware of a punch coming, it has been proven that a prepared person will be able to take far more than one that was unaware of the punch coming. This is what killed Houdini. He took many punches to the gut from various people, and was unhurt by them, and then one day while he was not expecting a punch to the gut, an unknown average man from out of nowhere punched him, and it was this unexpected punch that sent him to the hospital where he later died.

I think Simon has the power to put some very tough guys down, but I have my doubts that he would have put Thor away with one punch, if he was expecting the punch coming.

I am going with simon 8/10

Simon easily. One of the most underrated characters in comics.

Simon, but a hard fight.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Simon easily. One of the most underrated characters in comics.

Apollo should win this.

Classic WM wins in a stomp. Dude was stalemating merged hulk in slugfests and shit like that.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
"Cheap shot" or other wise it shows what happens if Simon can connect cleanly with a blow. He can one shot characters with far superior durability than Apollo with a gut shot. If he lands a clean haymaker like that to Apollo's head, he'll kill him.

DCnU Apollo is a completely different character than the Wildstorm version and his feats aren't transferable. If you'd like to use the DCnU version that is fine by me, but that makes this fight and even bigger mismatch. Character's durabilty in comics isnt constant and while characters have low showings. Thor has taken more powerful blows than what Simon gave him. Thus we chalk that feat up as a low showing for Thor. Otherwise Mongoose has herald level destroying power based off his feat against Thor.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Classic WM wins in a stomp. Dude was stalemating merged hulk in slugfests and shit like that. Colossus has beaten Hulk too but that doesn't mean he is anywhere near Hulks level. Characters are inconsistent in comics. Writers often write characters down to match someone to make it a good fight. Thor was written down every time he faced Ulik, Moongoose, etc. IMO Superman is sometimes written down too.

Originally posted by h1a8
IMO Superman is sometimes written down too.

Sometimes? how bout almost all the time?

Originally posted by Digi
Speedblitzing Earth to destroy an elder god and walking away like it was nothing. Destroying a space station with "a docking bay the size of a continent." So, planet-sized, easily. The skyscaper feat (in relation to Rogue - comparing to WM is strawman-ish, since I never said Apollo would win). His fight with Cpt. Atom. Zipping through a cityscape multiple times before the light trail from his earlier paths has disappeared. He can fly around the world in under a minute by best feat estimates...not Superman level but certainly >>> any meta. Hanging out inside the sun which, despite being his power source, is a ****ton of heat and explosive energy to endure. Covering the entire moon in heat vision.

Those aren't classic Rogue level. She doesn't one-shot planet-sized spaceships and zip through multiple baddies in a single panel. Apples and oranges. Apollo is legit low herald. Nothing more, but deservedly there. If you disagree, those are most of his best feats (not all, but they're fairly indicative) so at that point we just don't see eye to eye on the same showings.

srug

Apollo can be a beast.

Originally posted by iceman24567
What's so funny clown-boy?

Early Wonder Man was written to be Marvel's answer to Superman. Since then, there have been many other attempts to fill Clark's role in the 616, of course. But, Simon was the first.

So, when he came on the scene, Marvel had him doing top-tier strength feats, shrugging off attacks from the biggest guns in comics and showing some of the highest durability around.

So, unless you have those books in front of you and have figured out a way to dismiss Simon's history, you might want to rethink your stance.

Or, were you just posting that laughing smilie because it amused you so much you wanted to share with all of us?

Aaaahhhhh... Horrificus rolls around in a huge pile of old comics, absorbing their lost knowledge...

Originally posted by Horrificus
What's so funny clown-boy?

Early Wonder Man was written to be Marvel's answer to Superman. Since then, there have been many other attempts to fill Clark's role in the 616, of course. But, Simon was the first.

So, when he came on the scene, Marvel had him doing top-tier strength feats, shrugging off attacks from the biggest guns in comics and showing some of the highest durability around.

So, unless you have those books in front of you and have figured out a way to dismiss Simon's history, you might want to rethink your stance.

Or, were you just posting that laughing smilie because it amused you so much you wanted to share with all of us?

Aaaahhhhh... Horrificus rolls around in a huge pile of old comics, absorbing their lost knowledge...
No fool Wonder Man has never been one of the most underrated characters in comics. Even posts in this thread shows this much hes ranked where comics show he is hence why he gets the nod in this thread due to his Ionic phase. You want to complain about him being underrated when hes not? I will continue to laugh

Originally posted by iceman24567
No fool Wonder Man has never been one of the most underrated characters in comics. Even posts in this thread shows this much hes ranked where comics show he is hence why he gets the nod in this thread due to his Ionic phase. You want to complain about him being underrated when hes not? I will continue to laugh That is no argument and you don't know what u r talking about. Pointing out other posts and giving your lame opinion doesn't help your position.

Dig deeper and come back with some info.

I think Digi summed it up pretty nicely on the feats department. WM isn't going to stomp.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I think Digi summed it up pretty nicely on the feats department. WM isn't going to stomp. OK, I agree that it wouldn't be a stomp.

Originally posted by Horrificus
That is no argument and you don't know what u r talking about. Pointing out other posts and giving your lame opinion doesn't help your position.

Dig deeper and come back with some info. Actually it very well does how can he be one of the most underrated in comics when you are the only person who thinks this? You just seem mad that his power levels have fluctuated drastically since his creation . Still laughing.

Wonder Man gets underrated and overrated by various posters. No different from most of the characters in comics.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Wonder Man gets underrated and overrated by various posters. No different from most of the characters in comics. If you say so

Originally posted by iceman24567
Actually it very well does how can he be one of the most underrated in comics when you are the only person who thinks this? You just seem mad that his power levels have fluctuated drastically since his creation . Still laughing. And, I'm not mad. He is far from a favorite of mine.

Originally posted by iceman24567
If you say so

You seem to be underrating him. sneer

Originally posted by -Pr-
You seem to be underrating him. sneer
dont treat me like carver

Originally posted by iceman24567
dont treat me like carver

The night is young.

Originally posted by iceman24567
dont treat me like carver

Originally posted by -Pr-
The night is young.

Ominous.

iceman, I see buttrape in your immediate future.

Originally posted by Mindset
iceman, I see buttrape in your immediate future. My thoughts exactly. I wonder if Pr can lose his mod position for attempted butt rape?

I don't know, but I reported him.

This isn't a post apocalyptic world, you can't just go around raping people.

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't know, but I reported him.

This isn't a post apocalyptic world, you can't just go around raping people.

Guess it depends.

Is it attempted butt rape because you fight him off, thus depriving him of the act?

Or is it attempted because you enjoy it?

Originally posted by Mindset
I don't know, but I reported him.

This isn't a post apocalyptic world, you can't just go around raping people.

Also, Pr isn't an attractive lady.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Guess it depends.

Is it attempted butt rape because you fight him off, thus depriving him of the act?

Or is it attempted because you enjoy it?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Guess it depends.

Is it attempted butt rape because you fight him off, thus depriving him of the act?

Or is it attempted because you enjoy it?
Well all that depends on if he takes for dinner and a movie first. I am more likely to give into date rape.

Originally posted by iceman24567
My thoughts exactly. I wonder if Pr can lose his mod position for attempted butt rape?

lol "attempted"