^ Ionic Wonderman hasn't done anything meriting a stomp of Apollo. <--- I post this understanding that you have no proof but ample motivation to suggest otherwise.
No problems with WM winning, I think, but the lowballing of Apollo never ceases to amaze me. I've been put into defense on him numerous times despite not really caring about him as a character, by people saying that characters like Namor or Thing would beat him easily.
Laying out Thor for a moment with a suckershot doesn't warrant that. And classic Rogue doesn't one shot planet-killing asteroids. It's clear you aren't even putting any effort into your trolling so there's no point in deconstructing it... oh, wait... already did. My bads. This.
He dropped Thor with a gut check for several pages. Simon would punch Apollo's head clean off his shoulders.
Apollo doesn't one shot planet killing asteroids either... so I guess him and Rogue have that in common. She however doesn't get over powered by two horses. Apollo lacks the strength or speed feats to compete with top tiers from Marvel or DC and his stamina is terrible. He burns himself out at the drop of a hat.
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...there's some selection bias in holding that opinion. The times he's been drained quickly have usually been with mitigating circumstances/settings, or an admission earlier in the issue that his "charge" is already somewhat low. It also ignore the times he's performed high-end feats that have left him none the worse for wear.
He possesses numerous feats that would likely KO classic rogue. And I don't even think it's questionable.
Lack the feats to contend with top tiers, yes. Agreed. No one's pitting him against the Supermans and Thors of the world. But until recently, Simon was seen as straddling the power line between high meta and low herald (with most placing him in the latter). This isn't incredibly lopsided (and remember I'm cool with Simon winning).
I don't see it that way at all. What is Apollo's best strength feat? Lifting a sky scrapper? Well... Wonder Man as lifted an entire island. That's the level of power discrepancy between Apollo and a Wonder Man level character, facing him off against planet busters like Superman or Thor is an even greater mismatch. Strength. Speed. Durability. Good combat showings against established characters. Wonder Man's feats are above Apollo's... and not by a little bit.
Aside from you wanting him to be a contender, what has Apollo done that suggest Thor or Namor wouldn't easily beat him, which you previously stated you have a problem with?
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Thor being downed momentarily by a cheapshot doesn't vault Simon's status to Apollo curbstomping levels. Read Authority. Your lowballing isn't even updated to New 52. Which is two levels of trolling: one conscious, the other just unintentionally absentminded.
"Cheap shot" or other wise it shows what happens if Simon can connect cleanly with a blow. He can one shot characters with far superior durability than Apollo with a gut shot. If he lands a clean haymaker like that to Apollo's head, he'll kill him.
DCnU Apollo is a completely different character than the Wildstorm version and his feats aren't transferable. If you'd like to use the DCnU version that is fine by me, but that makes this fight and even bigger mismatch.
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When people aren't expecting it. I agree that if Wonderman cheapshotted Apollo, he'd at least down him for moments. That doesn't mean hed take his head cleanly off. I don't know what is in the e-water today, but being dense isn't helping your argument. Thread default rules are current characters. Do yourself a favor and stop acting obtuse. And, no, there would be absolutely no point to quibbling over such a minor (but clear) gaffe on your part.
Because expecting a punch increase your durability?
Don't be daft. The rules may specify that we use the most current iteration of the characters in these threads unless specified, but in practice it is a different thing entirely. It's been more than a year since the DC relaunch, and virtually every thread where the OP didn't explicit specify DCnU in the title or OP, the thread creator intended for the fight to be against the most common / well known iteration of the character. You post enough to know that. Almost every time we get a thread like this, the op intends for it to be pre DCnU Batman, or Wildstorm Apollo, or what have you. I would be shocked if the Apollo the op had in mind for this thread was the DCnU version... and if it is he gets his ass kicked because he has done virtually nothing and only has thirteen some odd appearances under his belt.
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Because expecting a punch and properly bracing for it increases your ability to tank and withstand it. I'm not holding your hand over this. You tell me whether or not it's more or less likely to knock someone out by cheapshotting them.
I post enough to know that people are consistently referring to current incarnations in new threads and making references to (or asking about if it's about) classic incarnations because they can't help but discuss them. I post enough to know that it's in old threads created before the new 52 where most of the pre-52 incarnations are discussed. I also post enough to know that this is the KMC rule to use current characters.
I also know that when I mentioned Apollo busting a planet killer, you didn't dismiss it as being new 52 and irrelevant. You acted like it simply never happened. So drop the pretense. We both know what happened.
My experience as social drinker, is that being limp is more effective in mitigating the force of a blow, then bunching your muscles together and bracing for it.
A cheap shot is usually effective because you catch some off guard and they they catch the full impact of the blow with out "rolling with it" or moving away enough reduce the force. "Bracing" for a blow is a terrible idea, that's how people break bones.
Apollo arbitrarily determined the alleged "planetary killer" statues of the meteorite, and since he isn't a Astrologist that is just something he pulled out if his ass. If you are going to take that at face value then you should know that I ate the biggest pizza in the world today! Also a 2 mile Asteroid is a world ender... which isn't that big. Every top tier form Marvel / DC that can fly could deal with that easily... and they wouldn't need to sun dip to do it.
We use what ever characters the OP has in mind when he creates the thread. The rules don't really matter in that regard. We are supposed to being using the DCnU version since he didn't clarify... but I almost guarantee that he means the Wildstorm version, just like every other thread creator. I suppose we could sit here and wait for the OP to clarify... but why bother?
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__________________ posted by Badabing
I don't know why some of you are going on about being right and winning. Rob and Impediment were in on this gag because I PMed them. Silent and Rao PMed me and figured I changed the post. I highly doubt anybody thought Quan made the post, but simply played along just for the lulz.
I am not going over cheapshots and bracing and rolling with blows in comics. Wonderman once downed Thor with a single cheapshot. Wonderman once got his a$$ beat by Thor despite hitting him multipe times in an actual fight. Draw whatever conclusions you want. Denigrating the feat hasn't magically imbued Rogue with a similar one. So your original estimation hasn't even been remedied. Apollo didn't need a sundip either.
I'm not retracing your gaffe repeatedly. Nobody cares, and shockingly enough, neither do I.
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Sep 21st, 2012 10:05 AM
