Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

All combatants are bloodlusted and are going for the kill...

Thanos has full access to his tech, Darkseid can call upon all of the resources on Apokalypse, and Tyrant call draw strength from his entire storehouse of Orbs of Power to amp up if need be...

Battle to the Death or KO with no BFR on the surface of Apokalypse...which side wins?

Seems like a stomp in favor of Tyrant. Even excluding his power orbs, he drew power from the biosphere of every planet in the universe. Let's say you exclude that too, he's a powerful technopath. He'd take over Thanos and Darkseid's tech, then Team would be so screwed it wouldn't be funny.

I don't see how Tyrant can lose this.

i see how he can lose sentry being bloodlusted and not holding back sentry breaks tyrant into little pieces well there really wouldnt be any pieces left

team

Bob solos

Tyrant wins and the Void is the first to fall. What an overrated character.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Tyrant wins and the Void is the first to fall. What an overrated character.

thank you for showing your lack of knowledge

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
thank you for showing your lack of knowledge

This coming from the guy who thought Odin is above Galactus? The Void is a threat to Earth heros but no match for a cosmic powerhouse like Tyrant who pretty much has a nearly unlimited capacity to absorb energy. Not to mention, a planet sized fortress full of drones that have one-shot ko'd the likes of Beta Ray Bill and Gladiator.

When the Void defeats a fully-powered Galactus then get back to me.

Tyrant still.. adding Thanos' tech and DS tech just makes it worse.. they would be better off not having tech sans maybe Teleportation tech or the like.

i would put a bloodlusted full powered sentry well above galactus no one that i know of has the power of a million exploding suns and i still think odin is a very powerful foe just dont know enough about galactus i do know a lot about sentry though hes more then capable of taking on the high end skyfathers i think its a joke u dc fan boys think he's over rated considering hes got the power to destroy the cosmos several times over

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
i would put a bloodlusted full powered sentry well above galactus no one that i know of has the power of a million exploding suns and i still think odin is a very powerful foe just dont know enough about galactus i do know a lot about sentry though hes more then capable of taking on the high end skyfathers i think its a joke u dc fan boys think he's over rated considering hes got the power to destroy the cosmos several times over Galactus unleashed a blast that wiped a galaxy. Even a 'dwarf Galaxy' the smallest ones, have 10 million or more suns in it.

im not disagreeing galactus is very strong but he gets the piss beaten outta him by a bloodlusted full powered sentry with ease

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
im not disagreeing galactus is very strong but he gets the piss beaten outta him by a bloodlusted full powered sentry with ease

You just admitted that you know nothing about Galactus, or anything at all really, and you still think the Void wins? Trolling are we?

i dont know a ton about galactus i know enough to know a full powered bloodlusted sentry destroys him no troling just facts

^^^^ can we make this a banable offense? Or at the very least ban this person for stupidity and not knowing comics on a comic book forum? Mods please answer!!! lol

If Darkseid can use all his resources from Apokolips, Tyrant gets curbed.

If DS is one shot... what exactly are these resources going to do except run for the hills. Besides, Tyrant would just take over the tech of Apok and use it to beat DS.. Kinda like slapping him with his own hand.

Not sure if serious?

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
If DS is one shot... what exactly are these resources going to do except run for the hills. Besides, Tyrant would just take over the tech of Apok and use it to beat DS.. Kinda like slapping him with his own hand.
Exactly. He did it to Galactus' tech with Galactus standing right there unable to wrest control of his machines back from DP Tyrant. If he did it to Galactus he can do it to Thanos and Darkseid.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
i dont know a ton about galactus i know enough to know a full powered bloodlusted sentry destroys him no troling just facts
Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
thank you for showing your lack of knowledge
Are you spiderman?
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28723590.jpg

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
^^^^ can we make this a banable offense? Or at the very least ban this person for stupidity and not knowing comics on a comic book forum? Mods please answer!!! lol

why? cuz you love your galactus so much and r mad he'd get owned? not really banning material

lol

what

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
^^^^ can we make this a banable offense? Or at the very least ban this person for stupidity and not knowing comics on a comic book forum? Mods please answer!!! lol

If it was a bannable offence, half of the forum would get banned. Hell, you might even be on the list.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
why? cuz you love your galactus so much and r mad he'd get owned? not really banning material

You'd have to prove Sentry can take Galactus. Otherwise it's a pointless argument.

i can proove it very easily in fact quite easily ill take teh scans of what doctor strange shows and sees about sentry when he reads his future and mind and how horrifying he was easily done i just need to actually get the scan onto this forum

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
i can proove it very easily in fact quite easily ill take teh scans of what doctor strange shows and sees about sentry when he reads his future and mind and how horrifying he was easily done i just need to actually get the scan onto this forum

You'd have to show an actual feat. What people say isn't proof.

they show it doctor strange reads him like his future and what not and it shows quite a bit and he states he's seen god he's seen the end times and none of it has scared him but what he sees in sentry terrifys him and shows him destroying basically everything when he loses it

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
they show it doctor strange reads him like his future and what not and it shows quite a bit and he states he's seen god he's seen the end times and none of it has scared him but what he sees in sentry terrifys him and shows him destroying basically everything when he loses it

seeing a possible future isn't the same as watching something happen in the present.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Not sure if serious?

Why so serious??

Are you serious though? Do you not think Tyrant could take over DS and Apok tech?

Basic stuff such as machines and weapon platforms and the like, sure.

The more advanced New God tech? Don't really see it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Basic stuff such as machines and weapon platforms and the like, sure.

The more advanced New God tech? Don't really see it.
So New God Tech > Galactus tech?

Originally posted by zopzop
So New God Tech > Galactus tech?

An argument can definitely be made, yes. Especially considering that in many incarnations, New God tech isn't so much "tech" as they are conceptual ideas given form.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
An argument can definitely be made, yes. Especially considering that in many incarnations, New God tech isn't so much "tech" as they are conceptual ideas given form.
Ah, I see now.

im not disagreeing but i thin kthe point i try and get accross that doesnt seem to count which sucks but HE CANT USE HIS FULL POWER he will kill everyone and everything if he does its another case of cis

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
im not disagreeing but i thin kthe point i try and get accross that doesnt seem to count which sucks but HE CANT USE HIS FULL POWER he will kill everyone and everything if he does its another case of cis


That's a myth made up by you though. He cut lose against WWH and Hulk withstood all of his million exploding sun power. This doesn't include people like Odin who withstood far more than just planetary attacks, Galactus who withstood attacks from a Thanos with the gems (that was destroying Galaxies). You have to look at these characters LOWEST of showings for you to think they couldnt withstand an attack from an all out Sentry.

A myth answered with a myth.

Mythical.

Sentry went all out and emptied all his reserves fighting against Green Scar. Not saying it was a bad feat for Sentry, as we know Hulk can literally obliterate planets with just the shockwave blast from a punch), but nothing to trouble Tyrant.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh020.jpg

Sentry admits he is going all out against Hulk. One of the only time he's done this and it still didn't stop Hulk. Don't get why he will be able to stop Tyrant. We have no telling how much power Sentry was pouring into the Hulk though. While holding back against Genis, he was destroying worlds...he used all of that power plus some against Hulk, so that could just be a thumbs up to Hulks durability. Who knows.

Originally posted by carver9
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh020.jpg

Sentry admits he is going all out against Hulk. One of the only time he's done this and it still didn't stop Hulk. Don't get why he will be able to stop Tyrant. We have no telling how much power Sentry was pouring into the Hulk though. While holding back against Genis, he was destroying worlds...he used all of that power plus some against Hulk, so that could just be a thumbs up to Hulks durability. Who knows.

So you think he could have possibly used world destroying power against Hulk ala his fight with Genis...even though Earth was still intact?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So you think he could have possibly used world destroying power against Hulk ala his fight with Genis...even though Earth was still intact?
Ofcourse, it's been done quite frequently in comics. It's quite silly of you to even question it.

There are characters who cannot focus and concentrate their attacks, thus causing huge collateral damage when they unleash and there are other characters (usually energy wielders) who can focus and concentrate their attacks.

For example MM vs Beyonder or anytime Thor unleashes a GodBlast whilst on planet Earth. Well, maybe the GB isn't that powerful.


Also, Earth is meant to be the most powerful planet in the omni-verse, I think. Recently Marvel made began to explain why Earth was exceptional, having the most powerful heroes and villains, makes sense for the planet to be adequately robust.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So you think he could have possibly used world destroying power against Hulk ala his fight with Genis...even though Earth was still intact?


Earth isn't a fodder planet, that's when we have to use common sense. If Sentry tells us he is going all out but we know when he holds back, he is capable of destroying planets...

1+1=2

Originally posted by carver9
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh020.jpg

Sentry admits he is going all out against Hulk. One of the only time he's done this and it still didn't stop Hulk. Don't get why he will be able to stop Tyrant. We have no telling how much power Sentry was pouring into the Hulk though. While holding back against Genis, he was destroying worlds...he used all of that power plus some against Hulk, so that could just be a thumbs up to Hulks durability. Who knows.

Heroes say stuff like that all the time. Hell I have seen Thor say shit like that soooo many times. Doesnt make it true though.

So basically never pay attention to what is stated in a comic, during a fight and further re-enforced by having the character suffer the consequences (In Sentry's case, being completely tapped out).

Nope, I think the comic said it best, Sentry unleashed all his power - scaring Reed Richards in the process - and Hulk just shrugged it off.

Your line of reasoning would make sense if that really was Sentry's best or "going all out" when compared to his other feats.

And it's not. Statements are nice, but they have to correlate with what actually happens on panel to hold merit.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Your line of reasoning would make sense if that really was Sentry's best or "going all out" when compared to his other feats.

And it's not. Statements are nice, but they have to correlate with what actually happens on panel to hold merit.

yup

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Your line of reasoning would make sense if that really was Sentry's best or "going all out" when compared to his other feats.

And it's not. Statements are nice, but they have to correlate with what actually happens on panel to hold merit.
Again, you ignore the comic for your own desired "reading".

The comic has Sentry state, Reed, Ben and Tony affirm and then Robert re-enforce the explicit fact of Sentry completely unleashing against Hulk.

You read what you like, I'll read the comic .

Originally posted by janus77
Again, you ignore the comic for your own desired "reading".

The comic has Sentry state, Reed, Ben and Tony affirm and then Robert re-enforce the explicit fact of Sentry completely unleashing against Hulk.

You read what you like, I'll read the comic .

I'm not ignoring anything. I'm also recalling what other comics have stated and shown.

If you think Sentry during WWH was Sentry operating at his absolute most powerful and best, that's your prerogative.

It's wrong and painfully obvious why you would think that, but still your prerogative none the less.

Statements, even statements made by that overrated idiot Richards, don't hold all that much weight when they're contradicted by other multiple on panel showings.

Originally posted by janus77
Again, you ignore the comic for your own desired "reading".

The comic has Sentry state, Reed, Ben and Tony affirm and then Robert re-enforce the explicit fact of Sentry completely unleashing against Hulk.

You read what you like, I'll read the comic . That's before he learned far more dangerous powers and when his mental state was weakened. Sentry's mental state greatly affects his power so according to that writer at that time under these circumstances he went all out. When you look at his greatest feats and greatest demonstrations of power this pales in comparison. Void's broken the Hulk easily on panel. Sentry at his most dangerous is the Void. Hulk is scared of the Void. According to Pak the fanboy of Hulk the Sentry still stalemated the Hulk. Eat it.

God knows I don't even like the Sentry/Void as characters, but anyone with any sense can tell you that WWH Sentry wasn't the most powerful form/showing of the character.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's before he learned far more dangerous powers and when his mental state was weakened. Sentry's mental state greatly affects his power so according to that writer at that time under these circumstances he went all out. When you look at his greatest feats and greatest demonstrations of power this pales in comparison. Void's broken the Hulk easily on panel. Sentry at his most dangerous is the Void. Hulk is scared of the Void. According to Pak the fanboy of Hulk the Sentry still stalemated the Hulk. Eat it.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
God knows I don't even like the Sentry/Void as characters, but anyone with any sense can tell you that WWH Sentry wasn't the most powerful form/showing of the character.

Hulk fanboys obviously cant see that

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
i would put a bloodlusted full powered sentry well above galactus no one that i know of has the power of a million exploding suns
Most true statement I've ever read

Jake's right. That is all.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Jake's right. That is all.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9yboqIGqx1qj9xato1_500.gif

Quan the Thano-sexual and Thor fans on the same side ... hmm...

Another conspiracy cookin'?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Another conspiracy cookin'?
Dunno, you're the cooks... I'm picturing something out of The Three Stooges, with you guys around the pot.

Sentry admitted he was unleashing all of his power and said it "more than once". That's all I need to know. I'm not ignoring the character intention, especially when it was repeated numerous of times.

Originally posted by carver9
Sentry admitted he was unleashing all of his power and said it "more than once". That's all I need to know. I'm not ignoring the character intention, especially when it was repeated numerous of times.

Did you also look at his superior feats both before and after WWH that contradict that statement?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Did you also look at his superior feats both before and after WWH that contradict that statement?

That still doesn't take precedence over his statement. Everyone doesn't have to blow up worlds for them "not" to be holding back. It's simple...he said that he doesn't have to HOLD BACK against Hulk because he knows Hulk can take it. He didn't say "I'm not going to hold back because Jake thinks I suppose to do more stuff". He went all out and Hulk withstood it...plain and simple. Don't know WHY you are trying to discredit what the guy said on panel "more than once, more than twice".

Originally posted by carver9
That still doesn't take precedence over his statement. Everyone doesn't have to blow up worlds for them "not" to be holding back. It's simple...he said that he doesn't have to HOLD BACK against Hulk because he knows Hulk can take it. He didn't say "I'm not going to hold back because Jake thinks I suppose to do more stuff". He went all out and Hulk withstood it...plain and simple. Don't know WHY you are trying to discredit what the guy said on panel "more than once, more than twice".

Of course not.

But if you knew about Sentry's feats, you'd know that WWH wasn't Sentry's greatest display of power. Which is what I'm getting at.

His statement isn't completely baseless, but stop acting like WWH was Sentry at the peak of his power (presumably just because he fought Hulk).

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course not.

But if you knew about Sentry's feats, you'd know that WWH wasn't Sentry's greatest display of power. Which is what I'm getting at.

His statement isn't completely baseless, but stop acting like WWH was Sentry at the peak of his power (presumably just because he fought Hulk).

Are there any other fights where Sentry said he wasn't holding back? Scans?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Of course not.

But if you knew about Sentry's feats, you'd know that WWH wasn't Sentry's greatest display of power. Which is what I'm getting at.

His statement isn't completely baseless, but stop acting like WWH was Sentry at the peak of his power (presumably just because he fought Hulk).
Not for anything but Carver has a point. Why can't we just accept what the writer intended, that Sentry going all out burned himself out against WWH?

Didn't Pak (?) say in an interview later that nothing short of cosmic intervention could have stopped WWH if he didn't want to be stopped?

That's how Pak (?) wrote the WWH storyline. Most people may not like it or agree with it, but that's just how it is.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not for anything but Carver has a point. Why can't we just accept what the writer intended, that Sentry going all out burned himself out against WWH?

Didn't Pak (?) say in an interview later that nothing short of cosmic intervention could have stopped WWH if he didn't want to be stopped?

That's how Pak (?) wrote the WWH storyline. Most people may not like it or agree with it, but that's just how it is.


Pretty much.

If Sentry and X-Man beat Galactus, I think this team can take on his lackey.

That's good for Pak's take on Hulk, sure.

But that doesn't mean that Pak's take on Sentry was the most powerful we've ever seen, either. Not when we have Jenkins' take and Bendis' as well, both of whom have feats superior to fighting WWH.

So, yeah, if you use solely WWH as the basis for Sentry and arbitrarily declare it to be the most powerful we've ever seen Sentry, fine. But if you look at the whole picture, it's obvious it wasn't. And he was goading Hulk into unloading on him in the first place.

Not to get into it, but Pak wrote a stupid phucking story with Sentry fighting WWH. I took it as Bob released all of his energy, thus going all out. He also controlled it via the funnel clouds so destruction would be limited. He definitely did not go all out physically. The Hulk was punching him in the face while Bob didnt even defend himself and he was laughing. The common fanboys see it as Hulk beating the very best Sentry ever and thats just not true. Not even close.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's good for Pak's take on Hulk, sure.

But that doesn't mean that Pak's take on Sentry was the most powerful we've ever seen, either. Not when we have Jenkins' take and Bendis' as well, both of whom have feats superior to fighting WWH.

So, yeah, if you use solely WWH as the basis for Sentry and arbitrarily declare it to be the most powerful we've ever seen Sentry, fine. But if you look at the whole picture, it's obvious it wasn't. And he was goading Hulk into unloading on him in the first place.

A lot of people wrote Surfer better than his latest fight against Thor but I'm not going to sit here and call out powers Surfer should have used to turn the table against Thor either and I sure as hell don't think Surfer was holding back even though again, we've seen a better written Surfer than the one that fought Thor. This type of debating is, well, lame.

Originally posted by carver9
A lot of people wrote Surfer better than his latest fight against Thor but I'm not going to sit here and call out powers Surfer should have used to turn the table against Thor either and I sure as hell don't think Surfer was holding back even though again, we've seen a better written Surfer than the one that fought Thor. This type of debating is, well, lame.

Surfer didn't go there to fight, but he wasn't trying to ask Thor to beat the shit out of him. He was only pushed until Thor kept attacking him, prompting him to get angry. That fight was fair and good for both of them.

There's a difference between going forum mode and having a specific portrayal where a character is clearly depicted as being above themselves in another arc due to their mindset.

Hulk and Sentry are two such characters where their psyche and mentality greatly effect their performance, more so than other top tiers. Sentry was there and wanted Hulk to rearrange his face. Hulk obliged him. Completely different examples.

Lol...two free hits from both change the outcome of what Sentry was feeding us in that fight? Lol...lost for words. Can't believe we are even discussing the fact that Sentry admitted on panel he was giving his all...MORE THAN ONCE.Stick to your opinion Jake...hold on to it.

Sentry was smiling like a jack ass and encouraging Hulk to punch him.

I'm not taking anything away from Hulk in that he was still able to cause Reynolds to burn out his energy, but seriously, stop trying to act like that was Sentry at his best actively trying to best Hulk. He didn't know he could matter manipulate and shit at that time. And yes, I'm well aware that, per Pak, WWH Hulk was still "holding back".

Sentry was smiling because he was able to finally cut lose. He even states it feels good not to hold back. Like I've stated Jake, hold on to what you want and look at the pretty pictures to determine if someone is holding back or not.

TBH, I tend to think it lies in between both your points. Sentry did go all out against Hulk. However, at the time he wasn't at his strongest as he had yet to discover his "Void" powers.

So no, it wasn't the Sentry's peak, but he was still going all out.

People state lots of things in comics, Carver. facepalm

Trying to hold onto statements as the gospel is stupid. And statements with accompanying feats are great, that is, unless they're contradicted by other examples.

So, again, if you think Sentry as he was portrayed during WWH was, hands down, the most powerful depiction of the character - presumably because he threw down with Hulk as we both know you're not subtle at all - cool. I'll continue to think that Sentry has other, more superior feats than that.

Which he does.

Lol.

Hulk has levels. Prior to HOTM/WWH, the most powerful we had seen of the Hulk was the Savage levels (Ok, barring other short term one off personas). At the time, if he had said that he was going 'all out', shall we ignore HOTM/WWH showings and only use the feats he displays in that Savage Hulk comic???

NO!

Sentry has levels.

At the time of WWH, he was going all out. At that level. Subsequent to that, he developed new powers etc. Shall we ignore all subsequent character development, and stick to that showing?

I dont know if I can take that fight seriously though. A Sentry going all out was releasing all of his energy. That much was true and props to the Hulk for being one of the very few characters to take it, but I find it hysterical that Bob wasnt even fighting back half the time and laughing trying to goad the Hulk into pounding on him some more. The fact that the Sentry was able to unleash all of his energy and said it felt great being able to go all out or cut loose causes people to think that was the best the Sentry had. Hell, if he used speed and actually physically fought back like he wanted to win, he probably would have beat the Hulk to death. See the difference?

He wouldn't have defeated Hulk...that much was made clear during the arc. Hulk couldn't be defeated...hell, even Pac states "nothing short of Galactus would have stopped Hulk".

Uuuummm, Sentry did blitz in the fight. Sentry got the first 5 licks on Hulk before Hulk had the chance to do anything. The famous words of H1...combo but not a ko. Hulk was just to durable to be dropped by Sentry and again, let's stop pretending Hulk was the only one given licks. Both allowed each other to tap that head.

Sentry had his fist, energy, flight, and blast whereas Hulk only had his hands and he was still able to take Sentry out. Just accept it and move on.

wow Carver...your hulk wanking is unbelievable. You are disregarding a character complete history and power set to fit your own argument. Pretty sad if you as me.

Lol @ all those people desperately trying to rewrite what Marvel has explicitly stated and depicted in comic.

The Gamma Knight Rises.

Originally posted by -Pr-
If it was a bannable offence, half of the forum would get banned. Hell, you might even be on the list.



nah you like me too much for that PR.. don't front

Sentry wasn't going all out... we've seen an all out sentry and that wasn't it. Now, back to the New God's Tech... what stuff are you referring to that isn't Tech but concepts that would help DS in this fight.. sans the ALE

Frankly it's only deluded people who make claims directly contradicting what the comic depicts, what the characters state and what the writer says he was depicting in the story.

It's nice to see the butthurt has been lasting and the excuses and special pleading have been richly hypocritical, which is an added bonus.

I'd say that WWH vs sentry WAS definitely sentrys all out ( since it was flat out stated in panel he was going all out), PRIOR to the bendis void molecule man stuff. Considering that he had many incredible feats even prior to the molecule man stuff ( like the genis fight) The fact that WWH burned him out is super impressive. After that though, he clearly went up a level after discovering new abilities and I certainly wouldn't make determinations about his new power level based off of the WWH fight.

Originally posted by ares834
TBH, I tend to think it lies in between both your points. Sentry did go all out against Hulk. However, at the time he wasn't at his strongest as he had yet to discover his "Void" powers.

So no, it wasn't the Sentry's peak, but he was still going all out.

excellent!


To add. Sentry's power level is based off his mental state. So he could be using all of his will to win but his mental state is not at optimal levels. We clearly seen Sentry operate at levels above what we saw in WWH. But again, Sentry was not holding back (he was just not at his strongest).

Sentry's MM feat was impressive, except for the fact that MM was insane and has been jobbing a fair bit in recent times.

The insanity is the important part because matter manipulation is basically a mental skill requiring coherence of thought, MM simply doesn't demonstrate any at all.

The fact that Sentry had new powers he did not know of (or understand) does not mean that he had more juice (energy) that he could have brought to the fight with Hulk. All it means is that he might have tried matter manipulation (and Hulk naturally has form resisting and reforming from such attacks, in his weaker incarnations).

On top of this, you have the simple fact that Hulk was holding back whilst taking all of Sentry's attacks. And that when Hulk actually began to operate at a level that tapped into more of his powers, planets and dimensions were destroyed.

The argument remains the same, Sentry emptied out all his reserves attacking Hulk. Hulk was probably operating at a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of 1% of his own reserves.

Originally posted by janus77
Sentry's MM feat was impressive, except for the fact that MM was insane and has been jobbing a fair bit in recent times.

The insanity is the important part because matter manipulation is basically a mental skill requiring coherence of thought, MM simply doesn't demonstrate any at all.

The fact that Sentry had new powers he did not know of (or understand) does not mean that he had more juice (energy) that he could have brought to the fight with Hulk. All it means is that he might have tried matter manipulation (and Hulk naturally has form resisting and reforming from such attacks, in his weaker incarnations).

On top of this, you have the simple fact that Hulk was holding back whilst taking all of Sentry's attacks. And that when Hulk actually began to operate at a level that tapped into more of his powers, planets and dimensions were destroyed.

The argument remains the same, Sentry emptied out all his reserves attacking Hulk. Hulk was probably operating at a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of 1% of his own reserves.

Comics stated clearly that Sentry's power level is based off his mental state.
That means he will appear weaker than other times (although he is giving his all).

So we can either apply the theory that Sentry draws his power from an outside source or just simply accept that Sentry's power/energy wasn't as complete as could have been the moment he fought Hulk.

IMO, WWH holding back simply means he didn't go WB.
Because if WWH stop holding back means he would go WB

nope it cant just b stated you need 100 percent proof and facts and scans showing him actually going all out nothing else is accepted on this forum

Team wins.

wasnt is stated that sentrys power can be drawn from everything and anything.(during the genis fight). This just proves that he was not all there or at even close to top levels during the WWH fight. That is if you believe he got burnt out at the end.

It was also stated that Hulk draw his power from an entire universe. See the difference?

Originally posted by carver9
It was also stated that Hulk draw his power from an entire universe. See the difference? Based on the statement, so does Sentry...

What's the difference?

Originally posted by Mindset
Based on the statement, so does Sentry...

What's the difference?

The difference is, its telling us that Sentry can draw power from any source...doesn't mean he is gathering a universe worth of power, he can just use anything to pull it from. Hulk on the other hand is gathering power from an entire universe. Ok, wait, I see what you mean. F.U mindset.

How does the team win again?

Originally posted by carver9
The difference is, its telling us that Sentry can draw power from any source...doesn't mean he is gathering a universe worth of power, he can just use anything to pull it from. Hulk on the other hand is gathering power from an entire universe. Ok, wait, I see what you mean. F.U mindset.

Sentry, like Surfer, can use just about anything to amp himself. There are a lot of characters that can do that (within the herald tier). I don't see how that makes Sentry special.

The whole thing with Hulk on the other hand, is that his mass and energy is extra-dimensional in origins. It's literally backed by a whole universe, somewhere.

It's like claiming that Surfer has equal energy stores to Galactus, just because he can amp from the universe around him.

^Darkseid's OE and Voidtry's MM powers

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How does the team win again?
Void gives Tyrant crabs, ftw.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
How does the team win again?
If the New God Tech is so far beyond Galactus' that Tyrant's technopathy will not work against it. Otherwise they don't.

Originally posted by zopzop
If the New God Tech is so far beyond Galactus' that Tyrant's technopathy will not work against it. Otherwise they don't.
That doesn't sound plausible, Galactus' tech is beyond Reed's (or Thanos') understanding, I doubt it's inferior to anything New God.

Originally posted by zopzop
If the New God Tech is so far beyond Galactus' that Tyrant's technopathy will not work against it. Otherwise they don't.

A hungry Galactus and Silver Surfer rolled over Darkseid and Apokalips in The Hunger. It's not canon but it's something to think about. I don't see how New God technology is even on par with Galactus' tech, let alone superior.

Originally posted by Dampyre
A hungry Galactus and Silver Surfer rolled over Darkseid and Apokalips in The Hunger. It's not cacon but it's something to think about. I don't see how New God technology is even on par with Galactus' tech, let alone superior. Since it's not canon then it doesn't count towards anything as it never happened.

I can see Tyrant winning, taking over Darkseid and Thanos tech will end badly for them, I see Void being a non factor. DP can amp his abilities, DS has to use his omega beams if they work, if they dont Tyrant would give DS a beating of his life.

Originally posted by h1a8
Since it's not canon then it doesn't count towards anything as it never happened.

All you do is lie and misrepresent what happens in comics. I wasn't talking to you anyway.

Originally posted by janus77
Sentry, like Surfer, can use just about anything to amp himself. There are a lot of characters that can do that (within the herald tier). I don't see how that makes Sentry special.

The whole thing with Hulk on the other hand, is that his mass and energy is extra-dimensional in origins. It's literally backed by a whole universe, somewhere.

It's like claiming that Surfer has equal energy stores to Galactus, just because he can amp from the universe around him. I have never seen it stated that SS can and does draw power from any and everything. Sentry is not, by design, a herald level character. He is only a herald through lack of understanding of his own abilities. Just like MM is limited by his state of mind, so is Sentry. Not to say that Sentry is on MM's level of power, but you should be able to understand my point.

Hulk's universe of power in which he draws from is no different than Sentry's.

Originally posted by janus77
That doesn't sound plausible, Galactus' tech is beyond Reed's (or Thanos') understanding, I doubt it's inferior to anything New God.

Only Doom understands it.

Originally posted by Mindset
I have never seen it stated that SS can and does draw power from any and everything. Sentry is not, by design, a herald level character. He is only a herald through lack of understanding of his own abilities. Just like MM is limited by his state of mind, so is Sentry. Not to say that Sentry is on MM's level of power, but you should be able to understand my point.

Hulk's universe of power in which he draws from is no different than Sentry's.
Re Surfer, it's been depicted and (I think) stated too. He drew power from a star, "replenished himself". He's taken Old Power and other energies too.

Sentry has done nothing that really places him above High Herald, imo. His MM feat is just an example of MM's insanity and low status currently (he's had a few of them, iirc).

I think Sentry is pretty much a Surfer-like character, with some limitations that Surfer doesn't posses and without the mental blocks on using his powers.

As for the Hulk comparison, I think they're qualitatively different statements. Sentry draws power from this universe much like Surfer can (and a few others too)... Hulk does that too (nukes, gammabombs etc) but also from an explicitly stated extra-dimensional source/alternative universe.

I've never seen anything state that Sentry has some alt universe into which he's plugged and from which he draws power.

Originally posted by janus77
Re Surfer, it's been depicted and (I think) stated too. He drew power from a star, "replenished himself". He's taken Old Power and other energies too.

Sentry has done nothing that really places him above High Herald, imo. His MM feat is just an example of MM's insanity and low status currently (he's had a few of them, iirc).

I think Sentry is pretty much a Surfer-like character, with some limitations that Surfer doesn't posses and without the mental blocks on using his powers.

As for the Hulk comparison, I think they're qualitatively different statements. Sentry draws power from this universe much like Surfer can (and a few others too)... Hulk does that too (nukes, gammabombs etc) but also from an explicitly stated extra-dimensional source/alternative universe.

I've never seen anything state that Sentry has some alt universe into which he's plugged and from which he draws power. We know Surfer can take energy from multiple different sources, that's not what is being discussed. Has it ever been asserted that he draws power from any and everything? To my knowledge, no, it hasn't.

The Void, which is Sentry, has taken on multiple high heralds iirc.

Sentry, from the statement, essentially has this entire universe to draw power from. Hulk, from the statement, has an entire universe to draw power from. There is no difference.

Sentry doesn't need an alternate universe, he draws from the one he is in.

Originally posted by Mindset
We know Surfer can take energy from multiple different sources, that's not what is being discussed. Has it ever been asserted that he draws power from any and everything? To my knowledge, no, it hasn't.

The Void, which is Sentry, has taken on multiple high heralds iirc.

Sentry, from the statement, essentially has this entire universe to draw power from. Hulk, from the statement, has an entire universe to draw power from. There is no difference.

Sentry doesn't need an alternate universe, he draws from the one he is in.
Sentry taking on multiple heralds is decent, Surfer's taken down Skyfathers and taken on Galactus level beings (and survived). For high heralds, I think that's their uncommon but not completely unheard of.

Sentry can't have "this entire universe" to draw from, as he's basically sharing it with beings of far higher energy drawing capacity (Galactus for one, the Celestials, Watchers etc etc).

There are lots of beings that draw energy from 616, so to me this statement isn't of the same quality as the statements (and depictions) regarding Hulk.

Think of it this way, Hulk has a trust fund with untold billions safely secured away for him to access. He also has an "unlimited" credit card on the 616 Universe. Sentry just has the latter, as does Surfer (and others).

Originally posted by carver9
He wouldn't have defeated Hulk...that much was made clear during the arc. Hulk couldn't be defeated...hell, even Pac states "nothing short of Galactus would have stopped Hulk".

Uuuummm, Sentry did blitz in the fight. Sentry got the first 5 licks on Hulk before Hulk had the chance to do anything. The famous words of H1...combo but not a ko. Hulk was just to durable to be dropped by Sentry and again, let's stop pretending Hulk was the only one given licks. Both allowed each other to tap that head.

Sentry had his fist, energy, flight, and blast whereas Hulk only had his hands and he was still able to take Sentry out. Just accept it and move on.

Yes, the Sentry's antagonizing karate chops and ***** slaps was him going all out. I'll bet Genis was glad he didnt get that treatment.

Originally posted by janus77
Sentry taking on multiple heralds is decent, Surfer's taken down Skyfathers and taken on Galactus level beings (and survived). For high heralds, I think that's their uncommon but not completely unheard of.

Sentry can't have "this entire universe" to draw from, as he's basically sharing it with beings of far higher energy drawing capacity (Galactus for one, the Celestials, Watchers etc etc).

There are lots of beings that draw energy from 616, so to me this statement isn't of the same quality as the statements (and depictions) regarding Hulk.

Think of it this way, Hulk has a trust fund with untold billions safely secured away for him to access. He also has an "unlimited" credit card on the 616 Universe. Sentry just has the latter, as does Surfer (and others). Why do you keep including SS, he can't draw energy from anything, neither can Hulk. Sentry, by statements, can. So both he and Hulk have their own infinite universe to draw power from. And if you have unlimited credit, a trust fund is pretty useless.

Originally posted by tkitna
Yes, the Sentry's antagonizing karate chops and ***** slaps was him going all out. I'll bet Genis was glad he didnt get that treatment.


Do we have to break down every fight to give ideas on what a character should have done to win because this would take yrs. Just accept what happened and move on bro. Sentry went all out and lost...just that simple. He exerted more force against WWH than what he did against Genis. Plain and clear.

Originally posted by Mindset
Why do you keep including SS, he can't draw energy from anything, neither can Hulk. Sentry, by statements, can. So both he and Hulk have their own infinite universe to draw power from. And if you have unlimited credit, a trust fund is pretty useless.
Surfer just shows how it is something not entirely uncommon to high heralds.

Sentry's statement can be taken as basically a loose description of what Surfer does (take energy from many many forms within the universe) but he shares that source with other beings who take even more energy from it (Galactus, his heralds, other cosmic entities).

The point being that he never truly has full access to all that energy and if he fought someone else hooked up to the same source (like Surfer) he'd have no advantage from it.

Also, without evidence (on-panel) it's a huge stretch to imagine that having access to energies from 616 = being able to channel infinite energies. Even with Hulk, we only have examples of outbursts that are, at best, on the skyfather scale (HOTM), but Sentry has been explicitly shown to have been tapped out fairly easily.

Taking it back to the analogy, you can have unlimited credit yet still have a daily limit on how much you can withdraw from the atm/bank. Hulk, it seems, has the facility to draw out as much as he wants.

he didnt go all out dude u just refuse to beleive it bcuz its up against hulk if it were anyone else you'd be singing a different tune that was a fraction of his power at best and stalemated hulk

Originally posted by janus77
Surfer just shows how it is something not entirely uncommon to high heralds.

Sentry's statement can be taken as basically a loose description of what Surfer does (take energy from many many forms within the universe) but he shares that source with other beings who take even more energy from it (Galactus, his heralds, other cosmic entities).

The point being that he never truly has full access to all that energy and if he fought someone else hooked up to the same source (like Surfer) he'd have no advantage from it.

Also, without evidence (on-panel) it's a huge stretch to imagine that having access to energies from 616 = being able to channel infinite energies. Even with Hulk, we only have examples of outbursts that are, at best, on the skyfather scale (HOTM), but Sentry has been explicitly shown to have been tapped out fairly easily.

Taking it back to the analogy, you can have unlimited credit yet still have a daily limit on how much you can withdraw from the atm/bank. Hulk, it seems, has the facility to draw out as much as he wants. Or it can be taken as something completely different from what Surfer does.

Who cares if Hulk can draw as much as he wants, he can't, that doesn't have anything to do with what I was discussing with carver.

In case you were wondering, I ignored most of your post as it was irrelevant.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
he didnt go all out dude u just refuse to beleive it bcuz its up against hulk if it were anyone else you'd be singing a different tune that was a fraction of his power at best and stalemated hulk
If it wasn't explicitly stated by the character, whilst he was attacking Hulk, if it wasn't commented on by Ben and Reed whilst the battle was going on AND if the writer hadn't stated that it was the case, maybe you'd have a point. Happily this is not the case and you are deluded.


It's fascinating how people can believe the opposite of what is stated and depicted and yet claim to be reading the comic.

Originally posted by Mindset
Or it can be taken as something completely different from what Surfer does.

Who cares if Hulk can draw as much as he wants, he can't, that doesn't have anything to do with what I was discussing with carver.

In case you were wondering, I ignored most of your post as it was irrelevant.
Without any on-panel depiction, it is most reasonable to see it as being a loose description of being able to do the same thing as Vulcan, Surfer ...

You feel he was supposed to be a character far beyond herald level, I disagree and I see his "infinite energies" thing as just being a technicality rather different to what Marvel have traditionally described as being the case for Hulk.

Anyway, you want to take Sentry's claim as definitive...

Originally posted by janus77
Without any on-panel depiction, it is most reasonable to see it as being a loose description of being able to do the same thing as Vulcan, Surfer ...

You feel he was supposed to be a character far beyond herald level, I disagree and I see his "infinite energies" thing as just being a technicality rather different to what Marvel have traditionally described as being the case for Hulk.

Anyway, you want to take Sentry's claim as definitive... The on panel depiction happened when he fought Genis.

Actually, no, I don't. I disagree, they are the same.

Sentry didn't claim it, the writer did.

Originally posted by carver9
Do we have to break down every fight to give ideas on what a character should have done to win because this would take yrs. Just accept what happened and move on bro. Sentry went all out and lost...just that simple. He exerted more force against WWH than what he did against Genis. Plain and clear.

stop hulk wanking. You are disregarding the characters power set and history. How many times does it have to be explained for you? Seems like pretty much every other poster understands.

i was told the past 2 days u cant go by whats stated... if thats the case he has the power of 1 million exploding suns and was obviously not going all out and ur point is moot check mate

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
i was told the past 2 days u cant go by whats stated... if thats the case he has the power of 1 million exploding suns and was obviously not going all out and ur point is moot check mate

Pak made it pretty got darn clear Sentry brought out his power of a million exploding suns.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/wwh016.jpg

I don't understand people. Some of you all have been on this site for yrs now and you are still basing things off of collateral damage. It's time you all graduated from that.

LOL that is not him do u know what ONE SINGLE exploding sun would do to this universe???? bye bye everything but pluto imagine ONE MILLION and that only says he's guessing hes unleashing the power of a million exploding suns when hes not even unleashing 1% good try though

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
LOL that is not him do u know what ONE SINGLE exploding sun would do to this universe???? bye bye everything but pluto imagine ONE MILLION and that only says he's guessing hes unleashing the power of a million exploding suns when hes not even unleashing 1% good try though I assume you mean solar system.

Because one exploding sun doesn't have much impact on the universe as a whole.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
LOL that is not him do u know what ONE SINGLE exploding sun would do to this universe???? bye bye everything but pluto imagine ONE MILLION and that only says he's guessing hes unleashing the power of a million exploding suns when hes not even unleashing 1% good try though

A universe doesn't have to explode for something to be what it is...like I've stated, graduate from Collateral damage, especially when this fight is taking place on Earth...a non jobber planet. I don't care what an exploding sun would do to a universe, if it is stated on panel what the character is doing (just like it was stated on panel that Galactus was exerting himself on Thanos shields, even though the room was still intact), then we accept that...no matter whats happening to the environment.

So you believe that Sentry exploded all over Hulk's face?

Is that your stance?

LOL ^ its a matter of knowing what a super nova would do and yes i do mean our solar system mindset when our little sun blows up its going to destroy everything except maybe pluto n some little chunks of rock way out there but its about collateral damage if he unleashed that logic says that something would be destroyed did he even knock over a building? trust me a super nova does more then that

Originally posted by janus77
If it wasn't explicitly stated by the character, whilst he was attacking Hulk, if it wasn't commented on by Ben and Reed whilst the battle was going on AND if the writer hadn't stated that it was the case, maybe you'd have a point. Happily this is not the case and you are deluded.


It's fascinating how people can believe the opposite of what is stated and depicted and yet claim to be reading the comic.

If it wasnt such a poor portrayal of what the writer was trying to do, then it would be easier to accept. If going all out was the fact that Sentry has never released that much energy before, then i'm ok with that. Trying to actually win the fight by laughing and hitting the Hulks fist with his face? I cant do that one.

Originally posted by tkitna
If it wasnt such a poor portrayal of what the writer was trying to do, then it would be easier to accept. If going all out was the fact that Sentry has never released that much energy before, then i'm ok with that. Trying to actually win the fight by laughing and hitting the Hulks fist with his face? I cant do that one.
Putting Hulk in the middle of a cocoon of energy that Sentry was using to tear him up, you mean? Sentry's open-handed attacks also had energy coming forth, iirc.

They trade hits, Sentry's going all out, borderline insane... Is it fighting smart? ofcourse not, but that doesn't mean he was holding back or had anything left in reserve at the end.

The point is that he unleashed it all and it wasn't enough to even KO Hulk.

so wait...some of you think that sentry vs wwh fight was sentrys best feat?

Originally posted by bbrem123
so wait...some of you think that sentry vs wwh fight was sentrys best feat? Only Hulk fantards do

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
LOL ^ its a matter of knowing what a super nova would do and yes i do mean our solar system mindset when our little sun blows up its going to destroy everything except maybe pluto n some little chunks of rock way out there but its about collateral damage if he unleashed that logic says that something would be destroyed did he even knock over a building? trust me a super nova does more then that
Dude, enough with the "million exploding suns"
That is not a valid argument, Voidtry isn't doing shit here.
When Galactus and Tyrant fought it destroyed galaxys (the milky way galaxy has between 200 and 400 billion stars) so when talking about anybody skyfather level or above sentry is completely outclassed.

Sentry is Low-Trans at BEST

Maybe they were tiny teeny weeny suns?

Originally posted by carver9
A universe doesn't have to explode for something to be what it is...like I've stated, graduate from Collateral damage, especially when this fight is taking place on Earth...a non jobber planet. I don't care what an exploding sun would do to a universe, if it is stated on panel what the character is doing (just like it was stated on panel that Galactus was exerting himself on Thanos shields, even though the room was still intact), then we accept that...no matter whats happening to the environment.

So...when characters say something, regardless of whether they do it, we shall take it as gospel?

Got ya.

Originally posted by janus77
Putting Hulk in the middle of a cocoon of energy that Sentry was using to tear him up, you mean? Sentry's open-handed attacks also had energy coming forth, iirc.

They trade hits, Sentry's going all out, borderline insane... Is it fighting smart? ofcourse not, but that doesn't mean he was holding back or had anything left in reserve at the end.

The point is that he unleashed it all and it wasn't enough to even KO Hulk.

I always thought it was kind of funny too, how Sentry consciously was suspending the Hulk in the air during the fight and also funneling his energy, but that should be normal for a borderline insane person during a fight. However you want to take it though bro.

Originally posted by tkitna
I always thought it was kind of funny too, how Sentry consciously was suspending the Hulk in the air during the fight and also funneling his energy, but that should be normal for a borderline insane person during a fight. However you want to take it though bro.


For the same reasons when he was flying around in the beginning and still got punched in the face. You are trying so hard to dissect this fight. Since you're dissecting this fight, I think you should do the same for every fight published. Superman stayed on the ground when he fought Doomsday. Martian Manhunter didn't use intangibility when he fought Grundy or Doomsday. Surfer didn't matter manipulate when he fought Thor.

Originally posted by carver9
For the same reasons when he was flying around in the beginning and still got punched in the face. You are trying so hard to dissect this fight. Since you're dissecting this fight, I think you should do the same for every fight published. Superman stayed on the ground when he fought Doomsday. Martian Manhunter didn't use intangibility when he fought Grundy or Doomsday. Surfer didn't matter manipulate when he fought Thor.

So you agree with me that the Sentry didnt try real hard to win that fight. Cool.

Originally posted by tkitna
So you agree with me that the Sentry didnt try real hard to win that fight. Cool.

What im saying is you need to realize how comics work and also look at everything that took place in that fight.

get over it man...that was not sentry at his best...stop trying to make it out like is was

During that time that was Sentry at his best. No need for me to get over it when that was one of the only times Sentry unleashed everything.

Originally posted by carver9
What im saying is you need to realize how comics work and also look at everything that took place in that fight.

I realize how they work and that story was very poorly done if Pak was trying to suggest that Sentry was trying to win that fight even a little bit. When a character stands there and lets another one use him as a punching bag while laughing and begging for more, the majority of us readers sometimes question the intent. One would think that the person supposedly going all out would try to defend himself at some point in the fight. As long as you and one other poster agree with the story then it must have been right.

Originally posted by carver9
During that time that was Sentry at his best. No need for me to get over it when that was one of the only times Sentry unleashed everything. ok thats fine...pretty much everbody has agreed to that. The problem is you think DA sentry and WWH sentry are the same power wise, and that since hulk could withstand sentry during the wwh arc he can do the same against DA sentry. Which is obviously not true. You also disregard his mental state which hinders his performance greatly.

Carver, just stop...

Originally posted by tkitna
I realize how they work and that story was very poorly done if Pak was trying to suggest that Sentry was trying to win that fight even a little bit. When a character stands there and lets another one use him as a punching bag while laughing and begging for more, the majority of us readers sometimes question the intent. One would think that the person supposedly going all out would try to defend himself at some point in the fight. As long as you and one other poster agree with the story then it must have been right.

I guess Hulk was poorly written as well since he was telling Sentry that he didn't want to fight while being punched through buildings. Like I've stated...relook at the fight.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Carver, just stop...

Lol...I'm not done though. At least let me finish this debate.

Originally posted by bbrem123
ok thats fine...pretty much everbody has agreed to that. The problem is you think DA sentry and WWH sentry are the same power wise, and that since hulk could withstand sentry during the wwh arc he can do the same against DA sentry. Which is obviously not true. You also disregard his mental state which hinders his performance greatly.

Lol... After that fight, Hulk growed power as well. That's not a one way street. Hulk powers is based on his mental state as well, the difference is, Hulk mental state skyrocketed after his fight with Sentry and he was still holding back. Don't understand your post buddy.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...I'm not done though. At least let me finish this debate.

There is no debate, though.

No doubt you'll soon be saying that the Sentry that Hulk fought was the same power level as the one frm Siege.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... After that fight, Hulk growed power as well. That's not a one way street. Hulk powers is based on his mental state as well, the difference is, Hulk mental state skyrocketed after his fight with Sentry and he was still holding back. Don't understand your post buddy. so you are saying sentrys power grew? because im pretty sure you just posted in the voidry vs wwh sentry thread that wwh sentry was more powerful...which is it man? Just concede before you dig a deeper hole.

It's obvious that his reasoning for WWH Sentry being the most powerful Bob's ever been is because he fought Hulk.

He knows it, I know it, we all know it. Let's just get that out of the way right now. It's so self serving and laughably obvious at this point.

Originally posted by bbrem123
so you are saying sentrys power grew? because im pretty sure you just posted in the voidry vs wwh sentry thread that wwh sentry was more powerful...which is it man? Just concede before you dig a deeper hole.

Yes, his power expanded (versatility)...doesn't mean he all of a sudden became more powerful. He just learned more about his power.

Originally posted by carver9
Yes, his power expanded (versatility)...doesn't mean he all of a sudden became more powerful. He just learned more about his power.

He learned how to no sell death and come back from molecular dispersion and overpowered Molecule Man.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's obvious that his reasoning for WWH Sentry being the most powerful Bob's ever been is because he fought Hulk.

He knows it, I know it, we all know it. Let's just get that out of the way right now. It's so self serving and laughably obvious at this point.