(Gabriel Belmont) Dracula Vs Kain (Legacy of Kain)

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EmptyHearted
Gabriel Belmont AKA Dracula from

Castlevania game


Vs

Kain from legacy of Kain games.




Dracula have all weapons and at his full power from Castlevania lord of shadow 2


And Kain got all weapons from Legacy of Kain Defiance.


Whom wins? The fight take place in Dracula Castle

Stealth Moose
IIRC, Dracula's durability and power scale is much higher.

Total Broadband
Kain only needs one hit to kill Dracula, Dracula cannot kill Kain in one shot. Since both can teleport and both have similar speed, it comes down to the fact Kain when he does hit will do more damage (instant death) than if Dracula landed a hit (regeneration/mist form).

Plus, I have not played LoS 2, but I have been watching walkthroughs and cannot recall seeing Dracula using telekinesis on any large scale, if at all? This means Kain can potentially both control him and disarm him.

Aw, isn't it nice to have a Kain thread, like the good old days....

EmptyHearted
I don't recall Kain control any as powerful like Dracula.

I know kain control human in blood one era and 2

Estacado
Dracula punches Kain's face of with his fists.
Kain has never faced anyone as strong or powerful as Gabriel.
Plus Gabriel is faster then Kain.

Total Broadband
This has been proven, Kains body is ridiculously durable, all that would happen if Dracula punched Kain is Drac would break his arm, depending on the force used possibly do more damage than that.

Also feats for "Gabriel is faster than Kain", Speed being less relevant in this case due to teleportation and Kains ability to render Drac immobile (and possibly dead depending on durability feats) with a gesture.



I was talking about Telekinesis, Kains TK is strong enough to manipulate tons of rock, so my question is Dracula "heavier" than tons? if not, then he is easy game, I question whether he can tank Kains gesture of TK, because if he can shatter tons of rock in a gesture I cant see him not shattering LoS 2 Dracula.


Draculas chances are based purely on his magic and his weapons, does he have ANY soul rending weapons? I recall his blue energy sword being able to drain spiritual energy but Kain can also tank his own soul reaver so its feats would have to be far beyond the soul reavers to be able to defeat Kain.

Does Dracula have ANY soul resistances of his own?

Stealth Moose
Originally posted by Total Broadband
This has been proven, Kains body is ridiculously durable, all that would happen if Dracula punched Kain is Drac would break his arm, depending on the force used possibly do more damage than that.

Also feats for "Gabriel is faster than Kain", Speed being less relevant in this case due to teleportation and Kains ability to render Drac immobile (and possibly dead depending on durability feats) with a gesture.



I was talking about Telekinesis, Kains TK is strong enough to manipulate tons of rock, so my question is Dracula "heavier" than tons? if not, then he is easy game, I question whether he can tank Kains gesture of TK, because if he can shatter tons of rock in a gesture I cant see him not shattering LoS 2 Dracula.


Draculas chances are based purely on his magic and his weapons, does he have ANY soul rending weapons? I recall his blue energy sword being able to drain spiritual energy but Kain can also tank his own soul reaver so its feats would have to be far beyond the soul reavers to be able to defeat Kain.

Does Dracula have ANY soul resistances of his own?

This is some quanning.

Total Broadband
What does quanning mean?

Stealth Moose
Debating styles similar to quanchi112, which usually consist of one-sided evaluations, complete dismissal of the opposition, refusal to provide ample evidence, and to treat the discussion as if concluded based on one's own subjective opinion.

Total Broadband
Do you mind quoting where I refused to give evidence and completely dismissed my opposition? If I look back a few posts above me, I clearly quoted my "opposition" so I did not dismiss them, if I were to dismiss them I would have hand waved them away not tried to comment on them.


Whats more, although I am almost guilty of doing a one-sided evaluation (I noted Dracula's teleportation), is that not what yourself everyone else so far in the thread has done? You made a few short comments on Dracula apparently being beyond Kain in several areas, not providing evidence yourself or really mentioning Kain. Infact, you did not make a constructive post describing why, I at least tried to give some factors for both.

So if anything, your just as guilty of "quanning" as I at this stage, so ill do one better and raise you with some evidence which as overused as it is (hence why I did not provide it first, its pretty much old hat and known here) I give you a respect thread;

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=470105&pagenumber=6#post13649152


The evidence is in the quote box third post from the bottom of that page for my claim on Dracula not being able to likely harm Kain physically. If we use the square inch figure, a huge stretch to aid Dracula here he would have to output the physical force of a small nuclear bomb (well, millions of tons of force, that sounded cooler and makes clear Kains durability edge over Dracula's) to do the same damage Raziel did to Kain (nothing), therefore he would need to exceed it by a fair margin to so much as bruise him a little.

Considering this (a little less of a one-sided evaluation no?);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp0zLudh7_E&t=7m36s

Dracula struggling to push back a ram would put him barely around Raziel in strength being generous. I don't do the calcs for these things not being able to, hence why in the Kain respect thread I used other people (notably people who have no stake in the debates I enter and will unlikely be bias in my favour) but just looking at the ram. It appears to be a wooden construct with a large metal rams head, the metal could be brass but its impossible to know how thick it really is, it only needed to be heavy enough to break open a fairly thin wooden door. Compare this to Raziel who flipped over an obelisk vastly larger than that ram and made of stone, we don't have much to say Dracula is going to harm Kain at all.

Hence why I say this argument hinges purely on the claims that Dracula is faster and maybe if he has a special weapon to harm Kain with, I have yet to paly LoS 2 as I have said, only having watched walkthroughs, and luckily since I do not dismiss my opposition I ask what feats show these qualities he requires.


Also Moose, a tip for the future. Don't label someone with labels that could easily be placed on yourself, your high horse would throw you forth, fortunately I have just caught you from striking your head on the flags and ill give you the opportunity to explain your comments above, which were;




So feats for durability vs the one I have given for kain, and a power scale as well please?

note as I said, Kain wields a sword that devours souls on a strike, he does not require to physically destroy Dracula and if I am right in thinking Dracula cannot get through Kains "tank" then Kain has an eternity to get a hit on Dracula even if Drac is faster, which again, I doubt would even be relevant due to telekinesis and teleportation.

Stealth Moose
The fact that you said you hadn't played LoS 2 and you think Gabriel would break his arm punching Kain tells me you aren't debating this objectively, hence the quanning.

Total Broadband
I just gave you two things I know that would suggest punching Kain to not go in Draculas favour, did you read my post? I have not played LoS 2 but I know those two things that would make what I said at least backed by some facts from the games. As for the "breaking his arm" thing, that was me just spiteing Estacado for his own silly evaluation. Which I note, you didn't complain about so I assume, your being just as bias as I am for Kain for Dracula since apparently those stating Dracula wins with ease cant be quanning (you keep using that word like its a well known term even though based on your own definition above it fits yourself more than it does me)


I take it you've completed the Legacy of kain series ANd LoS then for you to make that first comment in this thread on Dracula being so durable/powerful?

Estacado
haermm
This guy must be Burning Thought.

Power of a nuke required to hurt Kain?haermm

Total Broadband
Of course its me, this was covered in another thread.

That said, the math proves it requires millions of tons of force ot harm Kain, a fallacy does not an argument make Estacado.

Also being BT, you should know trolling me is meaningless, Ill still shoot down your argument time after time! (sing song!), the only trolls I cant stand are gone smile

EmptyHearted
Originally posted by Total Broadband
Of course its me, this was covered in another thread.

That said, the math proves it requires millions of tons of force ot harm Kain, a fallacy does not an argument make Estacado.

Also being BT, you should know trolling me is meaningless, Ill still shoot down your argument time after time! (sing song!), the only trolls I cant stand are gone smile


Burning Thought or whatever you are.

with all though Respect You can't expect anyone believe if Dracula punch Kain Dracula gonna break his arm.

Raziel manage rip Kain heart with no problem and his arm did not break.

EmptyHearted
Hey guys I was looking for way for two immortal vampires can possibly kill each other with their immortality intact.

But seem to be it costing problems.

So for the sake of the fight.

Dracula and Kain are not immortal. So whatever weapons they have have the power to kill each others

Total Broadband
Originally posted by EmptyHearted
Burning Thought or whatever you are.

with all though Respect You can't expect anyone believe if Dracula punch Kain Dracula gonna break his arm.

Raziel manage rip Kain heart with no problem and his arm did not break.

Well perhaps not, I was quipping against Estacado because in reality, Dracula would have to punch extremely hard ot break his own bones.

Your right but Raziel weakened Kain considerably beforehand with a weapon more or less designed to harm Kain. Also note, Kain did get up after having his heart ripped out.

Also, unless theres a better feat for Dracula I still doubt Dracula has equel strength to Raziel physically but more importantly, Raziel did use sharp claws, sharp enough to slice into solid stone and metal consistently throughout the games and like most vamps be used as weapons without having to equip a blade. Dracula does not have Raziels claws so he could not claw into Kains chest. If Dracula had Raziels strength and used those gauntlet things he has he could probably cut into Kain after a long drawn out battle.



I am glad you tackled this actually because that was something I was thinking myself, I don't know how far Draculas immortality goes back but Kain is immortal, it says so in the LoK manuel.


So Empty, what are your counters against Kains telekinesis, his ability lift up people and throw them around. Has Dracula ever resisted telekinesis on kains power level?

StealthRanger
Raziel took several wounds from human soldiers as per his own admission. Kain is more or less his physical equal. Neither have any speed feats

Didn't Gabriel tank a country sized explosion? That should put him well out of Kain's weight class

Estacado
Bt stop with the crap Gabriel casually blocked an attack that shattered a tower that alone makes him stronger then Raziel.

Total Broadband
Originally posted by Estacado
Bt stop with the crap Gabriel casually blocked an attack that shattered a tower that alone makes him stronger then Raziel.

Wheres the proof? Also I doubt it, otherwise explain how I just proved Dracula struggles with a respectfully small human pushed battering ram? Dracula was based on the number of soldiers entering the room and based on the number of "divets" for people to push on the side of the ram about as strong as 12 men, at best 20....20 men would struggle to even move the obelisk that Raziel lift, hell they could not move one half that size.

Also your supposing, since I assume you don't really know the strength of the stone, thickness etc of the tower that was "shattered", of course I would like to see your source anyway.


Originally posted by StealthRanger
Raziel took several wounds from human soldiers as per his own admission. Kain is more or less his physical equal. Neither have any speed feats

Didn't Gabriel tank a country sized explosion? That should put him well out of Kain's weight class


Raziel is not in this thread, also you say that as if its a bad thing, these were the Sarafan elite and were wielding blades. As for Kain being his "more or less physical equel" you don't know your source clearly since Kain consistently makes sport of Raziel physically throughout the game, not least of all the oh so famous chronoplast scene, oh and his feats as I posted above. Stop ignoring the feats.

StealthRanger
Originally posted by Total Broadband
Raziel is not in this thread, also you say that as if its a bad thing, these were the Sarafan elite and were wielding blades. As for Kain being his "more or less physical equel" you don't know your source clearly since Kain consistently makes sport of Raziel physically throughout the game, not least of all the oh so famous chronoplast scene, oh and his feats as I posted above. Stop ignoring the feats.

So? Still doesn't change the fact that they harmed him and that Raziel is not outside of human perception speed to perceive

Even if Kain was physically superior, you can't quantify that difference so Raziel's feats are what we scale off. That is all

Total Broadband
Why would he need to be? You say that like Dracula did not fight toe to toe with humans in Lords of Shadow 2. That still does not change Kains statistics. Your bringing up speed pointlessly when Kain can halt any speed Dracula has with a gesture and a TK strangle. He can probably kill him with that TK strangle as well since his TK has tons of force behind it. Now imagine tons of force on Draculas little neck...

Also Kain dukes Raziel all the time, so scaling off Raz like Kain fights him equally all the time is daft.

StealthRanger
If he can survive a country+ explosion, why would Kain's TK be effective?. Even then, he can't TK when he can't percieve his movements ala Wesker style (tho I don't know how fast Gabriel is, I've heard hypersonic stats, clarification would be nice)

If you can find a way to quantify that difference by all means, go ahead, until then, the difference, is unquantifiable

Estacado
Dracula can survive a fall from near space without a scratch Kain's tk isnt doing jack not to mention he could just teleport out of the grip or turn into mist.

Estacado
On the other hand Kain is a chump who gets burned by simple water guess what's Gabriel's powerset includes?
Ice.
So Dracula creates an ice tornado disintigrating Kain for the easy win.haermm

Total Broadband
Originally posted by StealthRanger
If he can survive a country+ explosion, why would Kain's TK be effective?. Even then, he can't TK when he can't percieve his movements ala Wesker style (tho I don't know how fast Gabriel is, I've heard hypersonic stats, clarification would be nice)

If you can find a way to quantify that difference by all means, go ahead, until then, the difference, is unquantifiable

I like how you don't have clarification for something you've not even a grasp of yourself and yet are championing it out of pure bias. Ill believe it when I see it, also why cant he TK when he "cant" perceive? Hes creating a telekinetic barrier, he gestures at his target and its under the effect of TK, its not like hes hitting him with something.

Also when did Dracula tank a "country+" explosion? And quantify the force of the explosion that struck Dracula. If its a magic attack of some kind rather than a bomb you cant just assume Dracula somehow tanked vast forces.

Also the Dimentional teleport shows Kains reflexes as being high.

Originally posted by Estacado
Dracula can survive a fall from near space without a scratch Kain's tk isnt doing jack not to mention he could just teleport out of the grip or turn into mist.


Prove the distance, don't just claim. If your referring to when he was fighting Satan and they slammed into the ground? Didn't look like a fall from space at all...he was in the clouds, this is not as impressive as you think because Dracula is only a man in size and therefore is not very heavy. You cant grasp the fact Kain has tons of force under his sway with a gesture and can do this effortlessly.

And yes, Dracula can mist/teleport as can Kain, this still leaves him vulnerable for the fraction of a second he may be under the TK's power, Kain can do it again as well as soon as Dracula appears. Dracula has no such advantage or ranged power on that kind of scale.


This still leaves Kain as vastly more durable, has more magic at his command and more importantly, has a sword that will kill Dracula in a strike.

Originally posted by Estacado
On the other hand Kain is a chump who gets burned by simple water guess what's Gabriel's powerset includes?
Ice.
So Dracula creates an ice tornado disintigrating Kain for the easy win.haermm


Ice is not =/= running water. Kain is immune to anything but immersion in water since Blood omen 1, rain for example does nothing to him and walking in streams in BO 2 does a little damage. Theres no way of proving how much damage ice, which is not running water and therefore may not be nearly as acidic, infact I belive Kain walks through snow in several regions in Defiance.

Unless Dracula can summon a large body of water and get Kain in it hes wasting his time casting ice tornados...

Wheras kain gets an easy win with a gesture of TK...I would say Kains gesture is an easier win than anything Dracula can hope for laughing

A list of things Kain can one shot Dracula with;

Soulreaver sword strike, potentially straight out of a dimentional teleport? Draculas defence? nothing...he wont know it until its hit him.

TK blast, until you can prove good durability, tons of force on Draculas head will burst it.

Mind control/Soul blast--> Under the same thing really because they amount to Dracula losing his soul or mind, this is easy for Kain to do unless theres a good mind rape feat for Dracula.

Or he could you know, walk up to Dracula and impale him on his claws.

Oh and another thing, Kain can drain blood with telekinesis, spells like bloodshower make this even more powerful so Dracula becomes a dry husk, giving Kain his powers in the process, then Kain turns him into one of his vampire sons!

Total Broadband
Stealth watch this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80dlL1MFoWo

Lord of Shadow 2 movie, Dracula moves at about peak human speed, so hes about as fast as Kain. Infact, movementwise their roughply similar, using mist form and teleport however....Kain is a bit faster since he can do those instant blitz strikes like the one he did on moebius. He can also swing his sword as a blur, stated in the games manuel.

Watch that and you will also learn that "explosion" was not really a explosion but more of a holy blast, which Dracula admits himself cant hurt him anyway due to special circumstances that I wont spoil for people who want to play the game.

He is Gods chosen, so Gods power wont harm him

So theres no feat there for him tanking anything.

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by StealthRanger
Raziel took several wounds from human soldiers as per his own admission. Kain is more or less his physical equal. Neither have any speed feats

Didn't Gabriel tank a country sized explosion? That should put him well out of Kain's weight class

He no-sold a country+ explosion due to his immunity to the power of God, the energy that created the explosion, and not due to his own innate durability to attacks. Unless Kain can use God's power, the feat is not usable for durability purposes.

Best quantifiable durability feat of Dracula's is prolly him tanking an attack that busted the top section of a sky-scraper, but he was weaker then.
At his Castle, where he'd be at his peak, he blocks the attack Estacado is talking about.
Then, just an hour or so later, he gets another unquantifiable durability feat, when he no-sells the Leviathan's blast that was intended to "destroy the world." Said blast was incomplete, though, and if completed, could have been anywhere from Life-Wiping to Planet Busting. The attack did bifurcate the Leviathan though, and the Leviathan's apparently durable enough to remain alive while beneath the Castle.

And of course, he's capable of free-falling from the upper atmosphere and landing on the ground unhurt.

So, in summary, Dracula's still way way above Kain's weight class. Kain would break his arms trying to attack Dracula.

Total Broadband
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix

So, in summary, Dracula's still way way above Kain's weight class. Kain would break his arms trying to attack Dracula.

There is a little tiny problem with that and that, well you have no evidence. How did you come to the conclusion here when you admitted most of what you said is unquantifiable.

The leviathan is purely a statement, of unproven power.

As for the fall from the atmosphere? laughing

Calculate Dracula at terminal velocity over the distance he fell (and the proof of those distances), I promose your not get any massive numbers for durability especially when his fall is broken on Alucards back iirc.

More importantly lets cut a long story short and check out the damage it did, because if your talking about the same thing I think you are, it made a small divert in the tarmac when he struck, no great force.

Force to break tarmac is nothing on Kains durability which is in excess of the core of a star (ours) in the same surface area as likely hit Alucards back.


You may as well compare Supermans durability to Draculas if your going to make silly comparisons like that.

Since Kain can strike with at least the force Raziel can, as I said before, Kain can gut Dracula, wheras Dracula will only injure himself hitting Kain.


Here, Kain does this;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80dlL1MFoWo&t=87m20s

Dracula for all his strength and speed your crediting him with (and durability) gets impaled before he can even bite the creature, a creature that's not much larger, therefore not much heavier than a human, gets overpowered and thrown.

Only, Kain will teleport but instead of just throwing him, will use the soul reaver. Killing Dracula forever!

Demonic Phoenix
Kain breaks his arm and neck trying to hurt Dracula. thumb up

Total Broadband
haermm How would even your version of Kain break his neck? Whats he doing beating his neck against Draculas funny little body?

What a sport you are Young Phoenix, what a sport.

Also, as a somewhat unrelated side note

its funny how a weak Camilla slowly jogs up to the cage she puts Beatrice in, struggles with the thin iron bars for a good while, finally breaks them, gives time for Beatrice to cower before the all powerful hypersonic prince of darkness catches up with her for an impalement, infact the whole Camilla fight giggles at Draculas speed and his reactions.

She continually evades him while teleporting across about 3 phases, even when she slowly makes shields around herself which takes longer than Kain forming a shield spell on himself does Dracula falter



Also, Dracula has to heat up human made/wielded shields before their soft enough for him to break roll eyes (sarcastic) and while softening them (he bashes against them with his enhanced gauntlets) the humans are happily protected, not even knocked off their feat by the force or anything....

I am wondering if Edward from Twilight would give Dracula a run for his money in a physical matchup...hur hur hur

Demonic Phoenix
Even your version of Kain breaks his arm and neck trying to hurt Dracula. thumb up

Total Broadband
Even your trolling only ends in Dracula breaking his wish bone as well as all his teeth, which the Tooth Fairy NEVER rewards him for.....

Oh and;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80dlL1MFoWo&t=116m40s

Dracula knocks himself unconscious just falling face first into the floor from about 20 meters or so...wow..

Due to my love of LoS and vamps in general I overestimated Dracula, Kain doesn't even need his sword, he just punches Dracula and knocks him out? Maybe killing him by accident?

Estacado
Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Even your version of Kain breaks his arm and neck trying to hurt Dracula. thumb up
thumb up

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by Total Broadband
Even your trolling only ends in Dracula breaking his wish bone as well as all his teeth, which the Tooth Fairy NEVER rewards him for.....

Oh and;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80dlL1MFoWo&t=116m40s

Dracula knocks himself unconscious just falling face first into the floor from about 20 meters or so...wow..

Due to my love of LoS and vamps in general I overestimated Dracula, Kain doesn't even need his sword, he just punches Dracula and knocks him out? Maybe killing him by accident?

Kain punches Dracula and Kain breaks his arm and neck and gets knocked out. thumb up

Total Broadband
But then by accident trips Dracula, who smashes his head on the flags of the stone their fighting on, killing him instantly! Oh I do love your stories Phoenix.

Total Broadband
Wow another one;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80dlL1MFoWo&t=164m13s

The more I look into LoS 2, the more I see scenes that Kain could so easily replicate and does himself, Dracula cowers and collapses before lightning? Something Kain has done to Raziel in Soul reaver 1 so easily?

Demonic Phoenix
Kain breaks his arm and neck and gets knocked out when trying to hurt Dracula. thumb up

Total Broadband
That's the same thing you said before...its more interesting when you change it at least a little sweetness...

So after finishing the Movie, I suggest adding in Satan and Death, maybe the Paladin of the order to even things out for Dracula, hey chuck in Alucard as well. This may help Kain a little due to Kains inspire hate powers but it would be more interesting to discuss more people.

Hell, chuck the LoS 2verse at Kain. Should be giggles to see how many of them kill themselves and eachother just trying to harm Kain.

EmptyHearted
Burning though. I have not play lord of shadow 2 myself but from what I seen. Dracula does indeed have more Raw power Kain.

This guy was god chosen as such he_immune to the divine and holy magic witch explain why he survive_A GIANT COUNTRY WIDE EXPLOSION/SHOCKWAVE? IS SEEN FROM OFF THE PLANET_

That alone is something I never seen Kain can do.


Not to mention he speed should give Kain hard time as well.


PS: you said Ice may not Water effect Kain? Perhaps not. But it will slow Kain down.

(Raziel Manage to use Water reaver on Kain. And he was slowing down due effect of the reaver)

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by Total Broadband
That's the same thing you said before...its more interesting when you change it at least a little sweetness...

So after finishing the Movie, I suggest adding in Satan and Death, maybe the Paladin of the order to even things out for Dracula, hey chuck in Alucard as well. This may help Kain a little due to Kains inspire hate powers but it would be more interesting to discuss more people.

Hell, chuck the LoS 2verse at Kain. Should be giggles to see how many of them kill themselves and eachother just trying to harm Kain.
Kain breaks his arm and neck when trying to hurt Dracula. thumb up

Originally posted by EmptyHearted
Burning though. I have not play lord of shadow 2 myself but from what I seen. Dracula does indeed have more Raw power Kain.

This guy was god chosen as such he_immune to the divine and holy magic witch explain why he survive_A GIANT COUNTRY WIDE EXPLOSION/SHOCKWAVE? IS SEEN FROM OFF THE PLANET_

That alone is something I never seen Kain can do.


Not to mention he speed should give Kain hard time as well.


PS: you said Ice may not Water effect Kain? Perhaps not. But it will slow Kain down.

(Raziel Manage to use Water reaver on Kain. And he was slowing down due effect of the reaver)
Please. Kain would get one-shotted. Dracula easily rips apart people who are on Kain's level.

EmptyHearted
Demonic Phoenix why you telling me that???
confused

Estacado

Total Broadband
Originally posted by EmptyHearted
Demonic Phoenix why you telling me that???
confused

Hes just trolling me, your probably newer than I am to KMC but what some KMCers do, especially those that don't or cant debate is troll. Funnily enough though, after years of trying to troll me, and not really making any difference to my arguments or behaviours some of the trolls still persist in adding their fallacies to the "pot" of them that make up their defence of their characters. This site could do with some more debaters though so maybe you can fight the case for Dracula?

Originally posted by EmptyHearted
Burning though. I have not play lord of shadow 2 myself but from what I seen. Dracula does indeed have more Raw power Kain.

This guy was god chosen as such he_immune to the divine and holy magic witch explain why he survive_A GIANT COUNTRY WIDE EXPLOSION/SHOCKWAVE? IS SEEN FROM OFF THE PLANET_

That alone is something I never seen Kain can do.


Not to mention he speed should give Kain hard time as well.


PS: you said Ice may not Water effect Kain? Perhaps not. But it will slow Kain down.

(Raziel Manage to use Water reaver on Kain. And he was slowing down due effect of the reaver)

There is no God in the Legacy of Kain universe of Christian origins, infact Nosgoth is apart from our world and the vampires there paly by completely different rules, infact their vampires only by name and the fact they drink blood, if you compare them to traditional vampires like Dracula their fairly different. Infact, their more like deamons, fallen angels in my opinion but their not connected to the same weaknesses.

Therefore, the holy power of God, crosses and the like would likely do no more to Kain than it would to the average person.




Can you show me this speed, because I just watched the whole Lords of Shadow 2 "movie" on youtube that I posted earlier and Dracula is about peak human, he consistently has bouts of running or fleeing from either enemies or collapsing structures and never one does he move much quicker than Kain. Infact, Kain uses teleportation a lot more than Dracula seems to do, and is happy using mist form like Dracula does as well, so I cannot see this edge you claim for Dracula.



Using the void sword is literally Draculas best and only chance. When he fought Zobek he impales him, freezes him and shatters him. This is the only thing that, having taken away Kains immortality (and Draculas) could possibly get rid of Kain in this fight. The problem is this is far harder when Kain has a long list of advantages from telekinesis, lightning and other things he could employ on Dracula to make this go his way, its just easier for him.



This is a bit of a list of non squitter fallacies among others as well as red herrings but among your many fallacies I there's no argument so in my boredom ill reply to these things because your wrong on so many levels.


First, Vampires dominated Nosgoth, Humans by the Soul reaver era are nothing but cattle, hiding inside one big city.


Raziel got smoked by the Hylden Lord, not Janos, I suggest you play Legacy of Kain again.

Janos was under the effects of Moebius' staff, also Janos being one of the more powerful vampires is also questionable.


Kain never tries to TK the demons in defiance....so how do you know he cannot? I can tell you he can because their not heavier than the tons of rock he can influence.

As for Dumah, we don't know hes the most durable, based on feats Kain is by a long shot but again, we don't know the information behind how or why Dumah was impaled or when, he was an evolved and improved vampire by the time Raziel fought him.


And finally, your list is pointless, it does not prove any of your points or disprove mine. Whats funny is Dracula gets impaled several times himself, I outlined one already, he gets thrown and smashed through objects all the time, hitting his head a little by falling knocks him out and he has to use special weapons to break human worn shields...said strikes don't hurt the humans until he gets through their protection so the force is low, relying on heat more than anything...

So Dracula is not a match for Kain, infact Kains sons would likely be "boss level" in Lords of shadow and would be more of a threat than most in LoS 2.

Its funny actually, but the Demon Dracula fights so hard with (without breaking the train their on, a damn train....) admits that it crashing would kill it, and likely Dracula too, who flees by the way after being impaled and thrown around by it, a being fair inferior to Kain. Infact, that demon appears to be little more than the green poison spitting demons in Legacy of Kain, basic mooks.


Hence why unless mr Hearted has some new evidence and can debate this for the people like Estacado and Pheonix who cannot debate or are afraid to debate with me after getting hoisted by their own petards time and time again I will conclude this as a mismatch after evaluating LoS 2 Dracula heavily.

As I said, throw in the Lords of Shadow 2 universe or a group of its best like Satan, Zobek and some of the Acolytes, maybe the lords of shadow from LoS 1 as well or the black knight and we may have a fight with Kain. Together they could slow him, wear him down while keeping the fight fun for him because he would be able to use his many madness inducing powers to make them fight eachother.

Which would make this more fun to debate because then it adds LoS characters vs some LoS 2 characters. Good idea ay Empyeyheart?

Demonic Phoenix
Originally posted by EmptyHearted
Demonic Phoenix why you telling me that???
confused

Because Kain's physically not very impressive, relatively speaking (to Dracula). He needs his exotic powers to stand any sort of chance.

trexalfa
One idea, Kain has a chance to win even if Dracula surpasses him powerwise. As Scion of Balance, Kain has a fair amount of time hax (not as much as Moebius, though). He could go back in time and kill poor Gaby when he was a child or something of the sort. If we play by LoK rules, he can use the Soul Reaver to trigger paradoxes. If not, it is far easier.

Total Broadband
I am not sure if the Soul reaver can trigger paradoxes by itself without something to trigger a paradox on, especially not outside the LoK universe. On top of that, Kain would still need a timestreaming device to enter the "paradox" time stream and find Dracula. Such a device does not exist in this match and would take a lot of time for Kain to use anyway, it would require Dracula to bump his head on a nearby piece of stone and go unconscious for Kain to have this time.

trexalfa
Originally posted by Total Broadband
I am not sure if the Soul reaver can trigger paradoxes by itself without something to trigger a paradox on, especially not outside the LoK universe. On top of that, Kain would still need a timestreaming device to enter the "paradox" time stream and find Dracula. Such a device does not exist in this match and would take a lot of time for Kain to use anyway, it would require Dracula to bump his head on a nearby piece of stone and go unconscious for Kain to have this time.

Yep, the Soul Reaver needs to collide with another SR to trigger a paradox. But as I said, if we aren't playing by LoK rules, the timeline can be altered at Kain's whim. By the way, prep time isn't specified in the OP, so Kain hasn't got access to a Time-Streaming Device or the Chronoplast. If Moebius can time travel without a device, as the Scion Kain could possibly do it too (he would be more limited than him). It doesn't seem far fetched when we have Azimuth summoning demons from another dimension.

Total Broadband
Kain probably can do a lot of the things the Guardians can do, reason being that now hes the Scion of balance hes sort of the connection between all of them. Infact, even the balance Guardian has a lot of control over all magic in Nosgoth, so potentially not only could Kain do things the Guardians have done but he may be able to limit Draculas own magic use.


However, Kain has not done this and these ideas rest on some speculation. It cannot really be proven Kain can travel through time by himself, as cool as that would be (trust me, I would be all for that being another one of Kains powers wink ) has never happened because we did not get another game after Defiance.

Its also hard to make people understand why Kain should be able to do some of these things because not everyone understands the legacy of kain lore. As Scion of balance his power is even greater than it was any time before then, he has ascended and the corruption that stopped him from using so much power as was his Birthright was purified by Raziel.

Kain has also re-absorbed the Souls of his vampire sons by absorbing the purified Reaver from Raziel which healed him. Its likely not only does he gain the enchantments Raziel gained from them but hem ay also have acquired the elemental reavers Raziel collected during the games. Like ice, fire, earth etc.

Of course, Kain can control time with the reaver anyway, he can slow it down to a crawl using the emblem.

themadsurfer
Dracula win here guys...

Total Broadband
In a beauty contest maybe.

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