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This is interesting

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/flash-arrow-spinoff-what-we-know-115211850085.html

Weird... Hawk girl is the only one I'm excited for.

i'm looking forward to seeing everyone in this

'Legends of Tomorrow'.

terrible. jr_erm01

Originally posted by marwash22
'Legends of Tomorrow'.

terrible. jr_erm01

nah its a decent title

Be warned tons of spoilers in video

4MubNoWQiSc


I can see tons of future vs matchups ant-man vs atom, black canary vs white canary, hawkgirl vs falcon etc

looks pretty interesting

DC definitely has the TV side of things under control. Marvel has a long way to go but they are winning the cinema.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Be warned tons of spoilers in video

4MubNoWQiSc


I can see tons of future vs matchups ant-man vs atom, black canary vs white canary, hawkgirl vs falcon etc

looks pretty interesting


good trailer, i'm excited

I can already tell this beats the Justice League movie and it hasn't even been seen yet.

This looks great. I'm actually excited about this one.

Originally posted by Supermutant
Be warned tons of spoilers in video

4MubNoWQiSc


I can see tons of future vs matchups ant-man vs atom, black canary vs white canary, hawkgirl vs falcon etc

looks pretty interesting


Only got around to watching this now, and it looks very promising. If I am honest, this trailer got me way more excited for this spinoff show than the Batman VS Superman trailer got me for Dawn of Justice.

Also, F*** YEAH, the ATOM is finally worthy of the name. And it explains how he survived the blast at the end of season 3 of Arrow. Also love the bit where Cold says "Why did you say that?" and then they get attacked by what appears to be a giant robot.

I guess to avoid confusion, this thread should be renamed DC's Legends of Tomorrow, since it's the name of the new show.

But yeah, looks great so far. Sad that I too will be expecting more out of this than the future DC movies to be done by Zack Snyder.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
F*** YEAH, the ATOM is finally worthy of the name. "he can shrink now so it's all good."

nah, homie. The costume still looks like shit and he's still flying around like a cheap-ass-oafish iron man.

this characterization is abysmal.



Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
And it explains how he survived the blast at the end of season 3 of Arrow. Not sure how being smaller allows someone to escape the force of an explosion... seems to me the opposite would be true.

Surviving the explosion has to have more to do with his suit than it does with him being small.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
DC definitely has the TV side of things under control. Marvel has a long way to go but they are winning the cinema. ??? Agents of Shield has been very good lately and Daredevil was amazing.
///
I hope a lot of the fx weren't done in that teaser. That giant foot one in particular looked like Syfy movie bad. I'll check this out though.

Originally posted by marwash22
"he can shrink now so it's all good."

nah, homie. The costume still looks like shit and he's still flying around like a cheap-ass-oafish iron man.

this characterization is abysmal.


Did I say it's "all good"? Don't pretend to know what I think about a character, based on one statement I made. I am happy because they are taking him closer to his comic counterpart, and incorporating the shrinking into it. Still not 100% happy with him, but it's a HUGE step in the right direction. I meant that statement in that an ATOM that can actually shrink is MUCH better than an ATOM who can't, not that it solves everything. CW Ray Palmer isn't comic Ray Palmer, but so what? He is still likable in the show. The only annoying thing is that they constantly make him the comic relief guy, when he should be the smartest one there.

Many of the characters are very different to their comic counter parts. Look at F.I.R.E.S.T.O.R.M. and how different his powers are to his comic counterpart. No shapeshifting, matter manipulation and all the other crazy crap he can do in the comics. Hell, look at Captain Cold. He is literally evil Michael Scofield with a freeze gun. So not like ATOM is the only one being changed for the show.

Originally posted by marwash22

Not sure how being smaller allows someone to escape the force of an explosion... seems to me the opposite would be true.

Surviving the explosion has to have more to do with his suit than it does with him being small.

That's the angle they are going for, whether it makes any kind of logical sense or not. And he was not wearing his suit. In fact, it was his suit that blew up. So not sure how the thing that exploded was supposed to save him. They will come up with some explanation as to how the nano tech saved him, as nonsensical as it might be.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Did I say it's "all good"? Don't pretend to know what I think about a character, based on one statement I made. walshy

the one statement is all i had to go on.




Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
F*** YEAH, the ATOM is finally worthy of the name.

...that is all you initially wrote.

Don't pretend other people are supposed to know what you mean based on one ambiguous statement.

Originally posted by marwash22
walshy

the one statement is all i had to go on.

...that is all you initially wrote.

Don't pretend other people are supposed to know what you mean based on one ambiguous statement.

Sorry, my initial response was somewhat aggressive. Been dealing with annoying family on a long drive, and am posting off a tablet in a car. So somewhat grumpy today. Did not mean to vent at you. I actually generally like your posts and comments. If you found the statement ambiguous though, ask me to clarify.

But to clarify further, I am just trying to look at the positives here. We're likely never going to get 100% comic accurate portrayals on a tv show, especially not from CW. In terms of fitting into the current Arrow/Flash verse, that version of Ray Palmer works fine IMO. And having him incorporate shrinking/nanotech into the suit brings him closer to his comic counterpart. Like I said, I just wish they would stop making him the comic relief guy so much. Hope this clarifies things a lot more.

Honestly this looks more exciting than anything I've seen from Dc on the big screen side of things. Loving this Shared Tv Superhero Universe.

Yea this looks sick.

This show will probably be a train wreck, can't wait to see it.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/08/legends-of-tomorrow-can-captain-cold-and-heatwave-get-along-with-the-team

take this with a grain of salt...

hawkgirl could be getting her own show...

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/06/hawkgirl-tv-series-in-development-at-cw.html

http://i.imgur.com/phLe69q.jpg


just when you think the CW is is out of leather... BAM! Moar leather! how many cows have died for the sake of superhero shows on this network?



Hawkgirl looks good tho.

Hawkman, not so much.

Well this Hawkman does look better then the one on Smallville.

In case people missed this:

c7LlmaFg0lw

When does this start? Should be soon now, as the Flash/Arrow mid season break is coming.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
When does this start? Should be soon now, as the Flash/Arrow mid season break is coming.

21st of January is the premiere date, according to CW. I'm pretty keen for this. Also heard a rumour that they were thinking of adding Constantine for the second season, but that the chances of a second season might be difficult, because apparently this show costs quite a bit to make.

if last night is any indication, Vandal Savage is going to beat these guys up a lot

"I've seen men of steel die and dark knights fall"

And now we have seen what it took to stop him, without a giant army at his back.

They are really making this guy out to be the biggest bad we've had so far in the CW DCverse.

It's weird though considering he's not supposed to have any powers aside from retard caveman strength, immortality, and keen intelligence built up over the centuries. They had to either amp him considerably or job everyone out to him. Still it's a fun watch.

Yeah, but the CW version seems to also posses mad ninja fighting skills, enough speed to dodge a bullet, a degree of mystical powers (like his curse during the meteor shower etc.), some more traditional slight of hand magician stuff (like the handcuff trick), and, when armed with his staff, can fire large energy blasts, seemingly shield himself from harm somewhat, and do massive area of effect attacks. And in the future he is backed by the largest army on the planet and presumably some highly advanced future tech (we do see the foot of a giant robot, for example, during the very first trailer).

So it seems more a case of amping him and his resources as opposed to jobbing the others.

Er yeah so why DOES Rip decide to bring Captain Cold and Heatwave onto the team? Cold has already shown he can't be trusted. You can't time travel and grab Superman or an older version of Flash? Or Green Lantern?

Don't get me wrong I'm sure White Canary will have Savage quaking in his boots.

I assume his reasons will be further explained in the series but, based on what he said, he chose them because of what they will become, instead of what they might necessarily be right now.

Also consider what Cold has accomplished throughout his showings, without even having any super powers. So he is certainly a formidable ally to have on your side. And he can be trusted to a point, as long as your interests are the same as his. And stopping Savage seems to be in everyone's interest.

Of course, they run the risk of him and his sidekicks grabbing a bunch of future tech and scampering off, or something along those lines, the moment they take out Savage.

He's an ally who will double cross you. It was in Cold's best interest to keep metahumans from destroying Central City and he still allowed them to leave..not knowing what they'd do.

Mark Martin could of just gone and wiped out Central City for laughs and then the entire east coast.

Well, Rip Hunter seemed to talk about them and what they will be ("legends" supposedly), so obviously he knows something we don't yet. But less than 2 months to go before we will see what the deal is when the first episode airs.

I admit that people really should be more worried that Martin is on the loose than they seem to be. That guy can wipe out an entire city just for the sake of it, and has shown a willingness to do so if it suits his purposes. Someone should do something about that. But then who exactly is going to go up against him other than Barry, and he has other problems.

This show looks to good to be true.

Also have to wonder how Reverse Flash fits into all this. He would of been from the time in which Vandal rules the world, right? He even mentions Rip Hunter as if he knew the man.

Originally posted by Surtur
Also have to wonder how Reverse Flash fits into all this. He would of been from the time in which Vandal rules the world, right? He even mentions Rip Hunter as if he knew the man.

Well, based on the time line, Thawne was born in 2151, and we see war happening in 2166 in the trailer. So the chances that they could have met some point after that is hardly impossible.

Also, looks like they somewhat handled the questions of both Cold and Martin on The Flash now.

That was a rather fun solid pilot I felt, even though it was only part 1 of it. I suppose Barry and Oliver only make certain cameos in this though, rather than being mainstays of the show like the others as I was sorta initially led to believe.

Not sure if I'm as hyped for this overall now as I was at first, but suppose it'll still give me a decent Thursday show lineup after Flash and Arrow the days before.

This feels like it will be cancelled after a couple seasons

Some depressing feedback so far. This was better than Supergirl's or AoS pilot IMO

I enjoyed the first episode overall. Wasn't as good as the Flash pilot IMO, but better than a lot of others.

The entire episode I'm just thinking "who the f*ck are you Rip?" and then at the end I'm like "Oh shit it's Rory from Doctor Who".

Originally posted by Surtur
Also have to wonder how Reverse Flash fits into all this. He would of been from the time in which Vandal rules the world, right? He even mentions Rip Hunter as if he knew the man.


I wonder when Eddie killed himself to erase Thawne from existence, if that somehow plays a factor in Vandal Savage coming to power and destroying the world. Thawne's future world couldn't have been destroyed if he wanted to go back to it. Eddie's premature death may have screwed up the timeline.

Just finished watching it. Honestly, I was hoping it was better.

Not buying the guy playing Hawkman. Rip Hunter should have been less hammy.

I dunno... I think it really needs to improve. Hopefully it will, because shows aren't given two to three seasons to grow like they used to.

Cold is still my favourite. Wonder how long it's going to be before he spanks some Canary ass.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Cold is still my favourite. Wonder how long it's going to be before he spanks some Canary ass.

Yeah, I still see him as Michael Scofield though lol

I mostly enjoy this version of Cold because it's Wentworth Miller and I usually enjoy his acting in the other things he's in.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I mostly enjoy this version of Cold because it's Wentworth Miller and I usually enjoy his acting in the other things he's in.

I found him to be a bit cheesy to begin with, but Miller's portrayal has really grown on me as time has passed.

show was decent.. coulda been better

Originally posted by Mindset
This feels like it will be cancelled after a couple seasons


I don't think it will get past 1 season. 3.21million viewers for a pilot is pretty bad compared to Flash and Arrow's pilots.


Because viewership usually only goes downhill after the pilot.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I don't think it will get past 1 season. 3.21million viewers for a pilot is pretty bad compared to Flash and Arrow's pilots.


Because viewership usually only goes downhill after the pilot. I disagree. You might not be familiar with the CW and it's programming so maybe I can help you. This was the most watched show on a Thursday night in 3 years on the CW so I wouldn't say the debut was disappointing.

Comparing the 3.21 million viewers to other shows currently airing on the CW that are on multiple seasons the Legends of Tomorrow actually had a higher rating.

1. Beauty and the Beast which is on its 3rd season airing 57 episodes debuted with 2.78 million viewers.

2. The Originals which is on its 3rd season airing 53 episodes debuted with 2.21 million viewers.

3. Reign which is on its 3rd season airing 54 episodes debuted with 1.98 million viewers.

4. The 100 which is on its 3rd season airing 30 episodes debuted with 2.73 million viewers.

5. iZombie which is on its 2nd season airing 23 episodes debuted with 2.29 million viewers.

6. Jane the Virgin which is on its 2nd season airing 30 episodes debuted to 1.61 million viewers.

So looking at the numbers it did debut higher than 6 other currently airing shows with more than 1 season under it's belt. So it's safe to assume that this show might be around for a while.

^ Well I said it's pretty bad compared to Flash and Arrow's pilots.

Also you're forgetting how expensive this show is. It will easily need Flash/Arrow type numbers to survive (methinks).

Well as long as it don't fall below an average of 2 million viewers I think it will be around.

With Rip's reveal that these guys aren't really legends it makes even less sense for him to bring murderous super villains along. You couldn't find anyone non-murderous who could help? It also does seem like Canary is getting ready to bang Cold, does she know about the whole "murders innocents" thing?

Anyways, I just feel bad for poor Ray Palmer. He just seems to get shit on left and right.

this bastardized version of Ray Palmer has been complete shit from jump street.

also, they already explained why Rip chose these specific people... apparently, removing them causes the least amount of ripples.

anyhow, the first episode of this show was entirely more enjoyable than this week's episode of 'Arrow'.

I know they explained it that is why I asked why he couldn't find anyone not murderous to help? Surely other people could be trained to use a heat gun or a cold gun, but meh..I enjoy the character of Cold so it's not a huge deal.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ Well I said it's pretty bad compared to Flash and Arrow's pilots.

Also you're forgetting how expensive this show is. It will easily need Flash/Arrow type numbers to survive (methinks).
I think that this show and Supergirl should switch networks in regards to budget/viewership issues.

Still I'll give CW the benefit of the doubt for not treating it like Constantine over NBC.

Originally posted by marwash22
this bastardized version of Ray Palmer has been complete shit from jump street.

also, they already explained why Rip chose these specific people... apparently, removing them causes the least amount of ripples.

anyhow, the first episode of this show was entirely more enjoyable than this week's episode of 'Arrow'.
I've just come to accept Ray's character for this series though I still don't understand why CW didn't just make him Ted Kord.

Also I'm not sure if that's a positive for the show or a reflection of Arrow's decline in quality.

I like Ray..he really does seem to try.

Wentworth Miller's Snart is really off-putting and not in a good way.

Wrong.

Originally posted by Surtur
With Rip's reveal that these guys aren't really legends it makes even less sense for him to bring murderous super villains along. You couldn't find anyone non-murderous who could help? It also does seem like Canary is getting ready to bang Cold, does she know about the whole "murders innocents" thing?

Anyways, I just feel bad for poor Ray Palmer. He just seems to get shit on left and right. He took them because they weren't legends.

That was the whole point of taking them.

So does this suck donkey balls or is it worth watching

Cheesy, aside from Palmer, Snart and Stein, too many dull characters and far too thin a premise.

This could end up watchable, but so far, I can't say I'll bother giving it much of a chance.

Stephen Amell as Oliver Queen to appear in ep 6....

http://www.superherohype.com/news/364271-stephen-amell-to-appear-on-dcs-legends-of-tomorrow-as-old-man-oliver#/slide/1

So Firestorm might have just become one of the most powerful people in the DCU. He absorbed a nuke.

Yeah, that was pretty awesome.

And are they just making Palmer look like an idiot on purpose now for comedic-ness?

It is weird that one of if not the smartest guy on the team is comic relif and ineptitude incarnate.

They did it on Arrow as well. I was hoping they'd shy away from that, given that he is a main character for this show, but they make him seem like the dumbest "smart" guy ever. Darhk's cameo was interesting. Shows that he has also known Savage since at least the 70s.

And the Firestorm nuke absorb was pretty badass. We already knew he could potentially go off like one (and has before), but now we know he can essentially tank and absorb one too. That easily puts him in the upper tier of anyone in the CW DCverse, in terms of pure power at least.

I think as the show goes on Palmer will change. Right now has a genius trying to do things he has no clue about. He is hanging out with the thieves and it will probably give him more of a reason to wise up instead of his normal naive look that its all easy

I admit I was surprised they killed Hawkman so quickly. Not that I have too many complaints. I found him very hard to like from the get go.

So Firestorm was pretty cool in this episode absorbing that nuke and whatnot.

Also does coming back from the dead make you a huge flirt or something because its only been the second episode and Canary's putting in the work. Poor Ray though, one of the smartest guys there and he's so far comes off as completely inept.

Man Prof. Stein is a freaking psycho in this show. What the heck.

So why did Savage tell them the correct way to use the dagger on him to kill him? Isn't that..kind of stupid? It'd be different if he waited until a split second before he was going to try to kill Hawkgirl in order to relay this information, but he tells them "yeah it needs to be her" before he had neutralized either of them.

Why not just let them go on thinking the dagger didn't work? How is he smart enough to conquer an entire planet?

Originally posted by Mindset
He took them because they weren't legends.

That was the whole point of taking them.

Yes and my question is why not find some non murderous people who weren't legends?

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Also does coming back from the dead make you a huge flirt or something because its only been the second episode and Canary's putting in the work.

I just think it's the fact she is surrounded by mostly dudes now. Remember on her last "team" the only guys were her ex bf and a guy with a wife.

Though I'm kind of hoping she doesn't start actually banging murderers. Which Cold is charismatic and an interesting character, but also has no qualms about killing innocent people.



Yeah it's like someone on the production team just hates Ray Palmer for some reason. He's a genius with an Iron Man type super suit..he should be one of the most useful member on the team.

Originally posted by Surtur
Though I'm kind of hoping she doesn't start actually banging murderers.

Well, Nyssa wasn't exactly lil' miss halo. Not to mention Oliver.

Oliver killed when he had to, Cold isn't that that. Nyssa, while an assassin, didn't seem like the type to kill for no reason at all.

Yeah, and Ollie swore off killing for the most part.

Just like Green Arrow in the comics isn't Frank Castle because he killed two people, and Castle isn't Bullseye because he kills lots of people.

Cold kills for sport or no reason at all.

Cold stopped killing people. Even in this show he just blasts people, it seems. Even in Flash Snart had practically become a good guy.

And he never killed anyone for no reason. I'm not even sure if he killed anyone in Flash except his dad.

Originally posted by Surtur
So why did Savage tell them the correct way to use the dagger on him to kill him? Isn't that..kind of stupid? It'd be different if he waited until a split second before he was going to try to kill Hawkgirl in order to relay this information, but he tells them "yeah it needs to be her" before he had neutralized either of them.

Why not just let them go on thinking the dagger didn't work? How is he smart enough to conquer an entire planet?




He's killed them 206.5 times. And on top of that, casually tanked a blast from their most powerful member and discovered that he did something so amazing, they needed to come back in time to defeat him before he did it.

He's so confident of his chances right now(and rightfully so) that he has no reason to deceive them. Clearly they can't stop him. They've tried multiple times and always failed.

They're missing an obvious solution: Snart cold gun freeze, then dump in a freezer forever/time jump to the end of the universe.

Toss him in a volcano, lmao.

Originally posted by cdtm
They're missing an obvious solution: Snart cold gun freeze, then dump in a freezer forever/time jump to the end of the universe.

Freeze him, then let Hawkgirl use that dagger like an icepick. They stop him, break the cycle all at the same time.

Originally posted by KingD19
He's killed them 206.5 times. And on top of that, casually tanked a blast from their most powerful member and discovered that he did something so amazing, they needed to come back in time to defeat him before he did it.

He's so confident of his chances right now(and rightfully so) that he has no reason to deceive them. Clearly they can't stop him. They've tried multiple times and always failed.

Exactly though, these are time traveling beings from the future with super powers and/or highly advanced tech. If anyone has a shot at killing him it would be them, so why help them out?

Originally posted by Surtur
Exactly though, these are time traveling beings from the future with super powers and/or highly advanced tech. If anyone has a shot at killing him it would be them, so why help them out?

Because after 4,000 years of killing the Hawks, then in the 70's gaining Atom's tech, then he easily trapped 3, tanked a hit from the strongest one, and was kinda walking the dog on them(even killed Hawkman again), he's cocky and arrogant. It's impossible for him not to be.

Originally posted by Surtur
I just think it's the fact she is surrounded by mostly dudes now. Remember on her last "team" the only guys were her ex bf and a guy with a wife.

Yeah it's like someone on the production team just hates Ray Palmer for some reason. He's a genius with an Iron Man type super suit..he should be one of the most useful member on the team.
She did bang Oliver in "spur of the moment" situation in S2. Don't know where she'll go with Snart but so far she's a super flirt.

I blame Felicity for Ray's ineptitude mostly because her parts in the latest episode of Arrow had her competing with Laurel for most annoying character.


With that said I'm surprised that Hawkman was axed so early though I'm not to concerned about it. Is that a bad thing?

I'm not concerned, either.. Besides, there's two obvious ways to fix that.

Do like Flash did and change time.

Bring in "future" Hawkman, after he reincarnates.

But tbh I'm fine with just leaving him gone.

Hawkman was a creepy **** and a huge *******. His whole smug, patronising "its destiny that you bang me and I'm going to be a aggressive dick about it" thing and the kind of constant condescending tone he used with Kendra was pretty bad. I'm glad he's dead.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Hawkman was a creepy **** and kind of a huge *******. His whole smug, patronising "its destiny that you bang me and I'm going to be a aggressive dick about it" was pretty bad. I'm glad he's dead.

Comic Hawkman is kind of a dick, too. (Adam beating him down and ripping off his wings is one of the only good things about his post New52 mini.)

Except without the creepiness.

I think that as much of a dick as he is, he's the groups necessary *******. Rory and Snart are the necessary evils. But Kendra still needs Carter. I hate that poor Cisco finally got completely dropped by her. But he's the one who remembers the shit, so she still needs him to train her and get her better. No way she gets close enough to Savage to shank him without Carter's help.

Even as a dick, I just don't think Hawkman was portrayed very well.

The show itself, i'm still unsure about.

One thing that was pointed out to me though, was that Rip Hunter's ship's computer (Gideon) has the same name as Eobard Thawne's in Flash.

Not just the same name. The same face and voice as well. It's the same Gideon, I just don't know how yet.

Well, didn't Barry create Gideon? And we know that he's seemingly still alive and active during the time Thawne is from, which is the same period Savage conquers the world (Thawne was born in 2151 IIRC and Savage conquers Earth in 2166). So it does line up somewhat. I'm thinking we might get an encounter with a future version of Barry at some point.

Originally posted by KingD19
Not just the same name. The same face and voice as well. It's the same Gideon, I just don't know how yet.

That's what I was curious about.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, didn't Barry create Gideon? And we know that he's seemingly still alive and active during the time Thawne is from, which is the same period Savage conquers the world (Thawne was born in 2151 IIRC and Savage conquers Earth in 2166). So it does line up somewhat. I'm thinking we might get an encounter with a future version of Barry at some point.

Quite possible.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, didn't Barry create Gideon? And we know that he's seemingly still alive and active during the time Thawne is from, which is the same period Savage conquers the world (Thawne was born in 2151 IIRC and Savage conquers Earth in 2166). So it does line up somewhat. I'm thinking we might get an encounter with a future version of Barry at some point.


I can see this happening

Rory from Doctor Who playing a 'Time Master' who defied his superiors and stole a time travelling ship. He even sort of dresses like The Doctor would. I just find that a bit annoying. I did hear a rumour that Rip Hunter is Booster Gold's son. Anybody with more familiarity with the character to comfirm or debunk this?

Originally posted by samhain
Rory from Doctor Who playing a 'Time Master' who defied his superiors and stole a time travelling ship. He even sort of dresses like The Doctor would. I just find that a bit annoying. I did hear a rumour that Rip Hunter is Booster Gold's son. Anybody with more familiarity with the character to comfirm or debunk this?

Booster Gold is indeed his dad. Rip Hunter isn't his name either. It's an alias so someone from the past or future doesn't discover who he is and hurt his friends or relatives with that knowledge. Not sure how closed LoT is going by the canon with him though.

Originally posted by KingD19
Booster Gold is indeed his dad. Rip Hunter isn't his name either. It's an alias so someone from the past or future doesn't discover who he is and hurt his friends or relatives with that knowledge. Not sure how closed LoT is going by the canon with him though.


they might go that way since I believe Booster Gold might be getting cast soon

I love this show

I could see Snart and Mick arguing with Rip about just snatching up Savages body and putting it in a drum, then dropping it into the ocean.

Then everyone chimes in with their favorite "get it over with" scenerio, until someone notices Vandal Savage, arms around Rip and Ray, suggested decapitation.

Cue Vandal laughing in their face, and exiting the stage.

This show is pretty fun but still really dumb. You just have to ignore the fact that any halfway intelligent person would have taken care of Savage by now or questioning why they don't just freeze him and kill him at their leisur when Kendra wakes up or at least take the dagger which they left for some idiotic reason. Or why they're even bothering with trying to kill him in the past when they obviously can't for Time Reasons.

Yeah, just ignore that and you're fine.

Wentworth killed it this episode. Stein is still a surprisingly awesome and duplicitous character.

Well this whole adventure has been causing a ruckus to the timeline so far. Also if the primary concern for not killing Savage in the past was for time reasons then why even bother going after him in the first place. Not to say that it isn't incredibly dumb that they haven't neutralized Savage by now or though of a decent plan to do so.

I'm surprised neither Kendra nor Carter asked when exactly does Savage pop up again in the future.

So 3rd episode and this is getting lower ratings than Arrow in its 4th season. Take into account the huge budget required for this, and it's a failure Imo. Calling it now- There won't be a 2nd season.

Show keeps getting better and better.

And Snart is the best character in any of these currently running comic shows. He is just so much fun. If we don't get a season 2 I'd be fine with a Captain Cold and Heat Wave show instead.

Is it me or the heat and cold guns don't seem to do anything like they did on The Flash?

The cold and heat guns have been nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise how else would someone explain how Savage has yet to contain Savage.

Also why does the CW hate Ray so much? The dude actively tries and is always given crap.

Yeah, that heat gun was taking out multiple cops at once when they first showed Heatwave. Now it looks like it does little more than singe people. Same with Cold's weapon. Hardly seems as effective. At least the character himself is entertaining.

And yeah, Ray did something decent for a change when he went into Kendra's bloodstream and saved her life, but the next episode he becomes a useless victim again.

Rip has proven himself quite the beast in H2H though. He's beaten both a noob and vastly more experienced Savage now, which is impressive considering how Savage handled team Arrow.

They probably dialed down the intensity. Since they're both good guys now and there's also the fact that they can't just go murdering people who might be important to the timeline.

Firestorm for example blasts people all the time and they're fine. Yet Deathstorm killed Joe.

Random thing I noticed about Firestorm is that he can actually fly without using his hands as propulsion, as he flew without issues while carrying the nuke in both arms during the 2nd episode.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Random thing I noticed about Firestorm is that he can actually fly without using his hands as propulsion, as he flew without issues while carrying the nuke in both arms during the 2nd episode.


Deathstorm also flew off with Killer Frost in one hand. His hands while useful for propulsion probably are like Iron-Man in that they're primary purpose is maneuvering and stabilization.

I call massive PIS on Rip having issues with that Russian gangster. The guy has handled Savage on multiple occasions, so why did he suddenly forget how to fight? Also, I am ashamed to admit that I actually laughed at Snart's prison break reference.

why is Connor full black? they didn't even try.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
I call massive PIS on Rip having issues with that Russian gangster. The guy has handled Savage on multiple occasions, so why did he suddenly forget how to fight? Also, I am ashamed to admit that I actually laughed at Snart's prison break reference.

It wasn't that he forgot how to fight imo. It was that that dude was pretty massive and was shrugging off even what should have been debilitating strikes. Like as hard as he punched him in the thigh, he should have been limping at the least.

What I'm calling PIS on is Ray continuing to be the dumbest genius in the world. Oh, they threw us in prison? And my prison mate/teammate who's been to prison multiple times over the course of his life tells me what to do? Nope. Just gonna ignore him. Repeatedly. Then complain when I get beat up because I did exactly the opposite of what he told me.

They made it so Ray is...he's like just dense to the point of retardation when it comes to anything not pure science or ATOM suit related. Like...just how hard is it to listen to criminals when it comes to criminal things?

Oh no Ray why would you want to use your suit to shrink down and go inside Kendra to save her life? We are scientists you can't do that we need to find the best way to help you can't do that it's dangerous, you are no former student of mine.

*15 minutes later* Ray wtf how dare you not want to use your suit to go inside of her and help you prick.

Ah...another week another montage of CW hating Ray. Admittedly I thought Fem-storm looked pretty cool for the brief moment she was on screen.

I want one episode where everybody f*cks up royal, and Ray does nothing that entire episode but save the day and pull asses out of the fire.

Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Ah...another week another montage of CW hating Ray. Admittedly I thought Fem-storm looked pretty cool for the brief moment she was on screen.


ray s^cks..

the whole show needs to be better

Ray sucks only because the writers are strongarming him into a dumbass. Any bad decision that can be made? Yeah he does it.

Originally posted by KingD19
It wasn't that he forgot how to fight imo. It was that that dude was pretty massive and was shrugging off even what should have been debilitating strikes. Like as hard as he punched him in the thigh, he should have been limping at the least.

What I'm calling PIS on is Ray continuing to be the dumbest genius in the world. Oh, they threw us in prison? And my prison mate/teammate who's been to prison multiple times over the course of his life tells me what to do? Nope. Just gonna ignore him. Repeatedly. Then complain when I get beat up because I did exactly the opposite of what he told me.

They made it so Ray is...he's like just dense to the point of retardation when it comes to anything not pure science or ATOM suit related. Like...just how hard is it to listen to criminals when it comes to criminal things?

Well, either way, based on what we have seen so far, Rip should have knocked that fat POS on his a** without issues. But it seems that they are trying to make Sara out to be the uber badass killer/H2H fighter, so the others have to occasionally look inept to achieve that. Except we know Rip can handle Savage, who has handled Oliver and Team Arrow, and we know that Oliver is above Sara, by feats. So that whole thing makes very little sense.

And at this point I have just given up on Ray ever not sucking. I had some hopes for him when they actually made him do something useful and smart on his return to Arrow (when he figured out the whole H.I.V.E. teeth thing). But it looks like he has been turned into the useless comic-relief of the show, just like he was on Arrow most of the time.

Also, is this show just going to turn into Rip killing Savage in a new way every few episodes?

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller

Also, is this show just going to turn into Rip killing Savage in a new way every few episodes? After dying every other week as Rory its a change to see him killing someone else instead every other week.

What is it with these geniuses turning into blithering idiots on CW?

Vostok = One of the smartest women in Russia? F*ck it, I'm not gonna listen to the guy telling me that without very specific things, you will die trying to become Firestorm. Then she dies trying to become Firestorm.

Why would she trust him? He obliviously doesn't want her to create a new Firestorm so she presumably assumes he is just lying to get her to not go through with it. And, had it not been for Jefferson, she would have been fine.

The big problem with this show still remains though. Vandal Savage is in no way a credible threat. And the heroes being absolute idiots is the only reason he is still alive...

Originally posted by ares834
Why would she trust him? He obliviously doesn't want her to create a new Firestorm so she presumably assumes he is just lying to get her to not go through with it. And, had it not been for Jefferson, she would have been fine.

The big problem with this show still remains though. Vandal Savage is in no way a credible threat. And the heroes being absolute idiots is the only reason he is still alive...


Well because when he originally thought he was back at STAR Labs, he immediately told Cisco about the Quantum Splicer. He reiterated multiple times without a way to stabilize the matrix, it won't work right. He even tried to hide a portion of the formula from her. Etc, etc...

Let's not pretend it was because she didn't trust him. It was because she became fanatical about the power at the last second and wanted to test it out. Like most CW villains who just go dumb to advance the plot.

It was both. She was power hungry and she didn't trust him. Really, not seeing her acting like an idiot there regardless.

So if there's a 100% guarantee that I'm telling the truth. And I say, "Without this quantum splicer, there's no way Firestorm works." Why ignore that when it's time to become Firestorm?

She didn't have to trust anything else he told her under duress, but that part was true and honest, and the most important part.

She was being an idiot.

There is not 100% guarantee at all. He clearly doesn't want her to create a Firestorm so for him to lie about it is a reasonable belief.

Originally posted by ares834
There is not 100% guarantee at all. He clearly doesn't want her to create a Firestorm so for him to lie about it is a reasonable belief.


Did you watch the episode? When Stein was first shown, he was in STAR Labs, talking to Cisqo in amazement about the equation on the dry erase board, because it was the exact equation for the Firestorm Matrix.

Then Cisqo wonders about the fact that the Matrix is unstable and increases exponentially without a way to control it.

And what does Stein say? "Fortunately, Dr. Wells developed a Quantum Splicer to address that very problem." He even starts writing more equations on the board.

He at this point is still 100% convinced he's back in Star Labs in that same instance from the Flash. So why would he lie about the Quantum Splicer? He wouldn't because he thought he was talking to Cisqo up to that point. In fact, he didn't notice anything was wrong until Cisqo screwed up and said "sir".

So if he talked about the importance of it when he thought he was talking to a friend. Why would he say the exact same thing and this time it's a lie because he wants to stop her?

Of course I watched the show. I just don't care nor remember the pseudoscience mumbo jumbo.

With that said, she clearly didn't realize what the quantum splicer was as she didn't realize that firestorm was the merging of two people until the end. So we are back to where we started.

Edit: Though I'll admit, that does cast her actions in a worse light. I still don't really see it being problematic.

Not caring or remembering doesn't take away from the importance. If they put that much emphasis on it...usually means it's key to the story.

For example, her masquerading as Cisqo knew from the very beginning that Firestorm was two people. When she said the energy increased uncontrollably in the body of the host.

The Quantum Splicer while not intricately explained, was explained enough. It stabilized the fission in the host body. He explained that to her again, and that being compatible was rare.

On top of that, you're mistaken. The only thing she didn't know was that Stein himself was half of Firestorm. She thought he was only the inventor behind the "Burning Man". She says that nearly verbatim.

And as soon as she found out, she immediately ignored everything he said because she basically wanted to get her rocks off and fuse with him.

She as being a complete idiot. Beyond Stein's level of honesty, she is supposed to be a highly intelligent scientist. Yet, as KingD pointed out, the moment she found out Stein was the other half of Firestorm she couldn't wait to hop in the reactor with him. And the moment they fused she didn't try to check stability or run tests. She decided to go play pyromaniac outside with her new powers.

True. That was idiotic.

Though, in fairness, if I got the powers of a god I may not be acting all that reasonable for a bit.

Well, the difference between someone like her and you or me acquiring those powers is that, having studied and worked on it for so long, she should know how dangerous it can be if something goes wrong, more than most others. And she completely forgot to apply any kind of scientific method. With something like that, even knowing Stein was the other half, she should have checked how compatible they were. And then double checked just to be sure. And even if they merged successfully, run more tests to make sure things are stable. Basic scientific principles. But she just kind of went crazy and started using inmates for target practice. She basically went into Mick Rory mode the moment she figured out what Stein was.

Hey Fem-storm was....hot but forgoing any procedure after finding out who Stein was is pretty dumb. Makes me think that if she actually had the Matrix she could stomp the entire team and possibly Savage himself.

At this point I'm just expecting Ray to decide to just be a super villain any second now. I mean worst case scenario if he is a villain and constantly f*cking up..it helps out the heroes.

If he'd been helping Savage sell the nuke he'd of tripped and fallen and accidentally activated it.

Also wait I didn't see them saving any prisoners so when that evil russian firestorm lady exploded that means everyone there was killed.

Originally posted by marwash22
why is Connor full black? they didn't even try. okay. makes sense now. it's not really Connor, just some poser.

Grant Wilson was kinda meh compared to Slade, but I guess serviceable enough as antagonist for the episode. Not sure I like where they're going with the whole dysfunctional team now though, but suppose it was to be expected.

So, I wonder if Supergirl is gonna be on earth 1. Since Connor Hawke was shown and he is on Future earth 1.

I like how Snart is basically a step away from being the best superhero on the team at this point.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I like how Snart is basically a step away from being the best superhero on the team at this point.

I feel like Snart and Rip are the only adults. Maybe Lance too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I like how Snart is basically a step away from being the best superhero on the team at this point.

Extreme temper tantrums, Ray doesn't get sandbagged for once, Stein's a big hero and some stuff about Rip's 99 problems.

With how much a dick some of them had been to Rory by this point, is it any wonder that he sold them out in an attempt to get back home? I get why they did what they did with him in the end, but wow. Just wow.

I find it hard to believe Snart killled Mick.

He is probably just frozen, and put in hibernation or something. Although its weird he dragged him off the ship to do that.

Why don't they just drop him back off in 2046

That would've made too much sense. If the team (and particularly Rip) was entirely sensible, Savage would've been done and over with already... but then that would've made too short of a TV show.

Mick may have been mostly a musclehead thug, but he had his code (remember when he took a beating for Palmer during capture interrogation?), though he was still too different from the rest, so they had to do away with him eventually. smh

Well this whole show hinges on the fact that nobody is bothering to come up with a half-way decent plan to eliminate Savage.

Even though Mick was different from the others, he still felt like a more valuable edition to the crew than Carter.

Originally posted by Kento
Why don't they just drop him back off in 2046

Well, presuming they end up defeating Savage, and Sara and Ray go back in time to help the others in Star City, that version of 2046 never actually ends up happening.

I mean if you dump him in a point in time, and then rewrite previous events to change/alter/erase that version of the time line, wouldn't that virtually be killing him in anyways? Because he'd have been put in a point in time that no longer exists.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, presuming they end up defeating Savage, and Sara and Ray go back in time to help the others in Star City, that version of 2046 never actually ends up happening.

I mean if you dump him in a point in time, and then rewrite previous events to change/alter/erase that version of the time line, wouldn't that virtually be killing him in anyways? Because he'd have been put in a point in time that no longer exists. Depends on how they handle things. Would time rewrite around him and cause he's a time traveler would realize what happened. Would it rewrite around him and he would just be rewritten to that time where he's just being as he usually is. Or would it create a different world since we know there is a multiverse. Or is it simply wiped from ever happening except in the minds of the people aboard Rips ship