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h1's worthy Juggernaut solos

Val spitestomps

H1's Juggs finds his limit

Validus wasn't even noticing PC Kryptonians running into him and KO'ing themselves. So if Juggy is going to win here he's going to need to be packing some serious serious firepower or have esoterics that can circumvent physical durability.

With that said..Validus really has no super speed that I know of. It's possible these guys could play keep away indefinitely. I forget if any of them could fly.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
h1's worthy Juggernaut solos Isn't that a Marvel vs Marvel only exclusive?

Originally posted by Cogito
Val spitestomps

H1's Juggs finds his limit

Not really because the reason behind Val being touted so high is because of the characters that he defeated. In that case we should compare things that PC characters wouldn't be able to tear through in Marvel. Let's begin with Adamantium, and mystically strengthened Uru weapons. One member of the Worthy crushed their weapon with a moderate amount of effort, and was able to rip through Adamantium like it was tin foil.

The Worthy would actually win this. I mean if we were to take a chain with links the size of the chain that Superboy used to tow those planets, i could easily see an Adamantium chain being easily able to do the same. Not to mention... wasn't that chain made out of regular steel? If we dig deep enough into that feat, it isn't as impressive as it once appeared to be. We don't even know how much those planets weighed? That nearly makes it a non feat.

The Worthy stomp his behind.

Hasn't Morlun ripped through adamantium like tinfoil as well?

You also haven't exactly explained how they do physical harm to Validus. Since your adamantium feat isn't actually sufficient to say they could harm someone PC Kryptonians get KO'ed just by running into them. That is assuming we toss out Morlun being able to tear through adamantium netting as a low showing for adamantium. If we don't toss that out it becomes massively less impressive.

As for your plant tugging feat..it really seems like you are trying to apply real world physics to a Silver Age comic. The chain might of been made out of steel, but that doesn't negate from the feat. True we don't know how much those planets weighed, but there were dozens of them. The feat was never impressive because someone actually calculated how much weight he was towing so you are correct in that it doesn't give us an exact figure of the strength needed.

But if you really wanted to try to apply physics then you might as well say Superboy committed mass genocide. Since in reality all life on those planets would of been wiped out via dragging it through space at FTL speeds.

This chain is made out of steel right? Isn't Admantium known to be far stronger than steel?

http://therec-room.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/feats-number-1-featured-image.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
Not really because the reason behind Val being touted so high is because of the characters that he defeated. In that case we should compare things that PC characters wouldn't be able to tear through in Marvel. Let's begin with Adamantium, and mystically strengthened Uru weapons. One member of the Worthy crushed their weapon with a moderate amount of effort, and was able to rip through Adamantium like it was tin foil.

The Worthy would actually win this. I mean if we were to take a chain with links the size of the chain that Superboy used to tow those planets, i could easily see an Adamantium chain being easily able to do the same. Not to mention... wasn't that chain made out of regular steel? If we dig deep enough into that feat, it isn't as impressive as it once appeared to be. We don't even know how much those planets weighed? That nearly makes it a non feat.

The Worthy stomp his behind.

Validus was treating the PC Legion like ants.

Originally posted by Surtur
Hasn't Morlun ripped through adamantium like tinfoil as well?

You also haven't exactly explained how they do physical harm to Validus. Since your adamantium feat isn't actually sufficient to say they could harm someone PC Kryptonians get KO'ed just by running into them. That is assuming we toss out Morlun being able to tear through adamantium netting as a low showing for adamantium. If we don't toss that out it becomes massively less impressive.

As for your plant tugging feat..it really seems like you are trying to apply real world physics to a Silver Age comic. The chain might of been made out of steel, but that doesn't negate from the feat. True we don't know how much those planets weighed, but there were dozens of them. The feat was never impressive because someone actually calculated how much weight he was towing so you are correct in that it doesn't give us an exact figure of the strength needed.

But if you really wanted to try to apply physics then you might as well say Superboy committed mass genocide. Since in reality all life on those planets would of been wiped out via dragging it through space at FTL speeds.

Well when dealing with PC characters vs current day characters, we need something to gauge them with. Am I right? If not, and no comparison can be made, PC characters should be considered as non canon and have no place in this particular forum where feats and continuity are basic needs in order to compare one character to the other.

Originally posted by Zack M
Validus was treating the PC Legion like ants.

The PC Legion may have just been weaklings dealing with a stronger foe. Big fish in a small pond comes to mind, when a steel chain is strong enough to be used to tow planets.

Originally posted by Stoic
This chain is made out of steel right? Isn't Admantium known to be far stronger than steel?

http://therec-room.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/feats-number-1-featured-image.jpg

I don't quite understand what you are getting at here. Yes adamantium is far far more durable then steel. I don't know if it is ever said what the chain is made of or where Superboy even got the chain.

But let us say it is made of steel. I don't see why that means Validus loses.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well when dealing with PC characters vs current day characters, we need something to gauge them with. Am I right? If not, and no comparison can be made, PC characters should be considered as non canon and have no place in this articular forum where feats and continuity are basic needs in order to compare one character to the other.

All PC feats count in this thread.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well when dealing with PC characters vs current day characters, we need something to gauge them with. Am I right? If not, and no comparison can be made, PC characters should be considered as non canon and have no place in this articular forum where feats and continuity are basic needs in order to compare one character to the other.

I don't see why being canon or not matters if the OP specifically says this is PC versions. Just like I could technically make a thread and specify it is a Marvel character from a "What If" story despite those not being canon.

PC characters have feats. The planet towing thing isn't the only insane feat by Superboy.

I just look at PC characters as completely separate from their current versions. Even those characters who technically weren't even affected by the Crisis. Since technically I don't think people like the Legion were changed and Darkseid also was actually aware of the events prior to the Crisis as well, yet his pre crisis self is vastly more powerful then the post crisis version.

Especially when it comes to people like PC Supes, when I think of him I basically think of the guy from the 1940's-1960s era. Since in the late 70's and early 80's his power levels dipped, though not as dramatically as after the Crisis.

Present day characters have been know to one shot planets. look at this scan of Val struggling to rip a planet apart. Something doesn't add up here.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111214034/4369842-validus+1.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
Present day characters have been know to one shot planets. look at this scan of Val struggling to rip a planet apart. Something doesn't add up here.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111214034/4369842-validus+1.jpg

A lot of PC characters have low feats.

Originally posted by Surtur
I don't see why being canon or not matters if the OP specifically says this is PC versions. Just like I could technically make a thread and specify it is a Marvel character from a "What If" story despite those not being canon.

PC characters have feats. The planet towing thing isn't the only insane feat by Superboy.

I just look at PC characters as completely separate from their current versions. Even those characters who technically weren't even affected by the Crisis. Since technically I don't think people like the Legion were changed and Darkseid also was actually aware of the events prior to the Crisis as well, yet his pre crisis self is vastly more powerful then the post crisis version.

Especially when it comes to people like PC Supes, when I think of him I basically think of the guy from the 1940's-1960s era. Since in the late 70's and early 80's his power levels dipped, though not as dramatically as after the Crisis.

If it doesn't matter, why don't we use Star Wars vs Marvel in this forum? Why don't we use DBZ characters vs comic book characters? Because they are not canon, or they can not be compared to comic book characters.

Originally posted by Stoic
If it doesn't matter, why don't we use Star Wars vs Marvel in this forum? Why don't we use DBZ characters vs comic book characters? Because they are not canon, or they can not be compared to comic book characters.

Stop derailing this thread. We can still use the PC feats whether they are canon or not.

Originally posted by Stoic
If it doesn't matter, why don't we use Star Wars vs Marvel in this forum? Why don't we use DBZ characters vs comic book characters? Because they are not canon, or they can not be compared to comic book characters.

We don't because they are not COMIC book characters.

Star Wars comics are fine.

Street Fighter comics are fine.

Originally posted by Zack M
A lot of PC characters have low feats.


Nah. If we placed them in present day comparisons, they simply don't add up. Val was a weakling, and the characters that he beat up on were weak as well. I mean if we imagine that present day characters easily one shot planets, while Val struggles to destroy one. Heck WW Hulk could one shot a planet alone, and Nul was supposed to be an amped version of WW Hulk. PC characters don't stack up properly in order to lace them in versus threads with current day characters.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We don't because they are not COMIC book characters.

Star Wars comics are fine.

Street Fighter comics are fine.

DBZ have comics though. They're called Manga.

Superboy Prime was a PC guy transplanted to the modern age...

Originally posted by Stoic
DBZ have comics though. They're called Manga.

Which are not comics. They are manga - very distinctly different, not just in construction, but style as well. Hence, not allowed.

Originally posted by Stoic
Nah. If we placed them in present day comparisons, they simply don't add up. Val was a weakling, and the characters that he beat up on were weak as well. I mean if we imagine that present day characters easily one shot planets, while Val struggles to destroy one. Heck WW Hulk could one shot a planet alone, and Nul was supposed to be an amped version of WW Hulk. PC characters don't stack up properly in order to lace them in versus threads with current day characters.

Nope.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superboy Prime was a PC guy transplanted to the modern age...



Which are not comics. They are manga - very distinctly different, not just in construction, but style as well. Hence, not allowed.

Proof that it was Prime that fought PC Validus? In that case how would Prime stack up to the latest version of Validus?

Originally posted by Stoic
Proof that it was Prime that fought PC Validus? In that case how would Prime stack up to the latest version of Validus?

I never said it was Prime that fought PC Validus.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superboy Prime was a PC guy transplanted to the modern age...



Which are not comics. They are manga - very distinctly different, not just in construction, but style as well. Hence, not allowed.

True. SBP is basically what would happen if a PC character were to jump into the modern age.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Superboy Prime was a PC guy transplanted to the modern age...



Which are not comics. They are manga - very distinctly different, not just in construction, but style as well. Hence, not allowed.

Last time I made a Star Wars vs Marvel character it was closed because of comparison issues. Is it so hard to grasp for you, that PC characters can not be compared to current day characters? Yes or no, and we'll end it on that note. PC can not be compared to anything written these days. I mean not one thing. The very steel back in those days was used to tow planets that looked smaller than houses. I mean how big were the people that lived on these planets?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I never said it was Prime that fought PC Validus.....

Well then if it wasn't Prime that fought PC Val, I guess we have nothing to go on then. We would have nothing to compare PC characters with present day ones, thus you bringing Prime into this mean nothing to me. The fact that Val sat there struggling to tear a planet apart, compared to modern day characters one shot killing planets makes me believe that Val was a weak feeb. I mean what can i actually compare him to? maybe those particular PC characters would be weak if taken out of their reality and placed into a present day reality.

Originally posted by Stoic
Last time I made a Star Wars vs Marvel character it was closed because of comparison issues. Is it so hard to grasp for you, that PC characters can not be compared to current day characters? Yes or no, and we'll end it on that note. PC can not be compared to anything written these days. I mean not one thing. The very steel back in those days was used to tow planets that looked smaller than houses. I mean how big were the people that lived on these planets?

They can't be compared in the same way that Toonforce Lobo, or the Mask, or Toonforce She-Hulk can't be compared.

They can still be used in threads, though.

Superboy Prime was Silver Age. So was the old Superman, Kal-L. As was Alexander Luthor. So we can have a rough estimate of them

Originally posted by Stoic
Well then if it wasn't Prime that fought PC Val, I guess we have nothing to go on then. We would have nothing to compare PC characters with present day ones, thus you bringing Prime into this mean nothing to me. The fact that Val sat there struggling to tear a planet apart, compared to modern day characters one shot killing planets makes me believe that Val was a weak feeb. I mean what can i actually compare him to? maybe those particular PC characters would be weak if taken out of their reality and placed into a present day reality.

Your original point was that PC characters can't stack up.

I named SBP.

You then can't understand why I brought him up?

Also, Kal-L and Alexander Luthor Jr. Both Pre-Crisis characters. Both have insane feats under their belt, especially Alex Luthor from Infinite Crisis.

And he said he was way beyond regular Lex Luthor in terms of intellect.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Your original point was that PC characters can't stack up.

I named SBP.

You then can't understand why I brought him up?

Well then how would Prime deal with Val, when Val was unable to one shot kill a planet. Which is why they don't stack up.

Validus would probably beat Prime one on one too. Lightning mental bolts ftw.

Originally posted by Zack M
Validus would probably beat Prime one on one too. Lightning mental bolts ftw.

No, he'd just be one shot destroyed.

I agree, Prime gets one-shotted

Originally posted by Zack M
I agree, Prime gets one-shotted

Based on what exactly? Val couldn't even one shot a planet. Prime would have been able to hit him once and Val would have imploded on impact.

Val doesn't just have ridiculous durability feats against PC Kryptonians, he's also laughably stronger than PC Kryptonians, has mental energy powers, and fought a Sun eater that was destroying a galaxy.

His feats are far beyond the Serpent too

Originally posted by Cogito
Val doesn't just have ridiculous durability feats against PC Kryptonians, he's also laughably stronger than PC Kryptonians, has mental energy powers, and fought a Sun eater that was destroying a galaxy.

His feats are far beyond the Serpent too

Based on the characters that he fought, they could could have all been weaklings. Everything about the PC era was off. Steel back then was meant to be as strong as steel, and yet a steel chain was able to tow multiple planets as far as the eye could see. There is nothing that can be compared of those days to these days, which is why no argument can really be made. The very substance that the physical PC universe was made up to make no sense. If a steel chain could tow multiple planets as far as the eye could see, then I can only guess that that very same steel chain could also destroy galaxies. But then when we look at things, steel was just steel back then. My point again, is that we can not compare that era to this era of comics, because no argument can be made to draw comparisons from. PC characters had no continuity to them, and could be written to be as powerful as the story needed them to be. This is why PC should be banned from forum discussions, unless they are being compared to other PC characters.

You can't even compare PC DC to current DC. I mean Val was unable to destroy a planet with ease, yet he goes on to beat Kryptonians capable of towing multiple planets with a steel link chain. Whatever.

They weren't weaklings. lol

Val, easily.

Nul destroys him easily.

Lol

Validus kills them to DEATH!!!

Validus is torn to pieces. Weak character from a weak era of comics.

Originally posted by Stoic
Validus is torn to pieces. Weak character from a weak era of comics.

PERVERSE LIES!!!!!!

Originally posted by Stoic
Based on the characters that he fought, they could could have all been weaklings.

PC Superboy and (IIRC) Mon-El? Not weaklings by any means.

Nul rips him apart.

Originally posted by Cogito
PC Superboy and (IIRC) Mon-El? Not weaklings by any means.

Superboy>Nul.

PC Mon El just about knocked himself out charging into Val. And he's tanked the Atomic Axe..

Originally posted by Stoic
Validus is torn to pieces. Weak character from a weak era of comics.

Originally posted by Cogito
Val spitestomps This.

Originally posted by cdtm
PC Mon El just about knocked himself out charging into Val. And he's tanked the Atomic Axe..

Like I said, big fish in a little pond. You literally can not compare PC era characters to anything short of Mighty Mouse, Grape Ape, and the Power Puff Girls. There is no means of actually measuring these inconsistent characters to present day characters. None. Then you have the OP actually having the gall to argue the point in the thread that they made. You have to wonder what the agenda for this was.

So, no arguments for worthy?

Originally posted by Stoic
Like I said, big fish in a little pond. You literally can not compare PC era characters to anything short of Mighty Mouse, Grape Ape, and the Power Puff Girls. There is no means of actually measuring these inconsistent characters to present day characters. None. Then you have the OP actually having the gall to argue the point in the thread that they made. You have to wonder what the agenda for this was.
Oh we can. Just look at SBP. He was far weaker than PC Superboy. Look how he treated heralds in DC.

Validus was a dozen times more powerful than Superboy.

So if you're going to use ABC logic, try using SBP at what, twenty times strength against Worthy. See how it goes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh we can. Just look at SBP. He was far weaker than PC Superboy. Look how he treated heralds in DC.

Validus was a dozen times more powerful than Superboy.

So if you're going to use ABC logic, try using SBP at what, twenty times strength against Worthy. See how it goes.


Doesn't matter. None of the PC era continuity is canon now. If it were DC wouldn't have gone above and beyond measure to eliminate all of the wackiness that came out of that era. And no, Prime was stronger than PC Validus, unless you're saying that he would have trouble destroying a planet. Just drop it, we won't see eye to eye on something as inconsistent as that era of comic writing. It should literally be banned from discussions because there is no way to accurately compare it to present day characters.

Don't even attempt to make sense or compare the feats of these days to these days. An argument can not be made on either side. As such I can make claim that present day characters would wipe the floor with those guys, and simply write off the feats by saying that the very substance that the PC era DC universe was made of very weak stuff in comparison to these days. I can say anything, because PC DC lacked continuity from virtually every perspective. It's literally like arguing who would win a fight between Popeye and present day Superman, or Wily Coyote vs Thor.

If we can't even make a Magneto vs Star Killer thread which happens to be easier to argue, how are we arguing PC DC vs anything other than characters from that particular era? So what Superman sneezed and erased a bunch of planets, but then turns around and gets nailed in the head by an average bank robber and hurt by the blow, I could simply say that those planets were made up of very weak materials to explain how he actually did that but was then hurt by an average everyday bank robber that nailed him in the back of the head. By feats, the bank robber would have been able to destroy a universe if he hurt the guy capable of doing so. Right?

But current characters also have their low showings.

Shall I turn around and say a gas station KOed Superman (post Crisis)?
Shadowhawk humiliated Superman with his speed?
Hulk was KOed by a snake, and more recently, by a gorilla?
Thor was too slow for Mongoose, and Wolverine?
Silver Surfer was arm barred by Panther?

Originally posted by Stoic
Doesn't matter. None of the PC era continuity is canon now. If it were DC wouldn't have gone above and beyond measure to eliminate all of the wackiness that came out of that era. And no, Prime was stronger than PC Validus, unless you're saying that he would have trouble destroying a planet. Just drop it, we won't see eye to eye on something as inconsistent as that era of comic writing. It should literally be banned from discussions because there is no way to accurately compare it to present day characters.

Don't even attempt to make sense or compare the feats of these days to these days. An argument can not be made on either side. As such I can make claim that present day characters would wipe the floor with those guys, and simply write off the feats by saying that the very substance that the PC era DC universe was made of very weak stuff in comparison to these days. I can say anything, because PC DC lacked continuity from virtually every perspective. It's literally like arguing who would win a fight between Popeye and present day Superman, or Wily Coyote vs Thor.

If we can't even make a Magneto vs Star Killer thread which happens to be easier to argue, how are we arguing PC DC vs anything other than characters from that particular era? So what Superman sneezed and erased a bunch of planets, but then turns around and gets nailed in the head by an average bank robber and hurt by the blow, I could simply say that those planets were made up of very weak materials to explain how he actually did that but was then hurt by an average everyday bank robber that nailed him in the back of the head. By feats, the bank robber would have been able to destroy a universe if he hurt the guy capable of doing so. Right?

Doesn't matter. We're using PC feats here.

From the tier thread:

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But current characters also have their low showings.

Shall I turn around and say a gas station KOed Superman (post Crisis)?
Shadowhawk humiliated Superman with his speed?
Hulk was KOed by a snake, and more recently, by a gorilla?
Thor was too slow for Mongoose, and Wolverine?
Silver Surfer was arm barred by Panther?


All of that can be explained. I can make claim that since there were major continuity breaches surrounding PC characters that Kryptonians were written down so that Val seemed to be more than he actually was. After all Val struggled to tear a planet apart. Present day Val would one sot kill a planet. We aren't actually arguing that PC DC didn't suffer from major continuity issues, and trying to sweep over it with by saying that its is actually impossible for BP to skillfully place the Surfer in an arm bar? I mean is that what you're actually trying to do? Continuity was so horrendous, that real life legal action had to be put into play to forget the mess that was written back in those days. None of what you stated comes close to comparing with it. None.

Also just because they were included in the tier system does not mean that it is in any way correct. It's actually a pretty slimy way of saying that you understand what I'm saying, but would prefer to just play dumb to make a point. PC DC is not canon to present day characters, and they can not be compared to them.

Originally posted by Zack M
Doesn't matter. We're using PC feats here.

Yeah and Nul kills Val. Simple as that. When PC Val one shots a planet he may be able to hang with Firelord.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah and Nul kills Val. Simple as that. When PC Val one shots a planet he may be able to hang with Firelord.

Nul is going to need the whole team to compete. Don't be silly.

Originally posted by Stoic
All of that can be explained. I can make claim that since there were major continuity breaches surrounding PC characters that Kryptonians were written down so that Val seemed to be more than he actually was. After all Val struggled to tear a planet apart. Present day Val would one sot kill a planet. We aren't actually arguing that PC DC didn't suffer from major continuity issues, and trying to sweep over it with by saying that its is actually impossible for BP to skillfully place the Surfer in an arm bar? I mean is that what you're actually trying to do? Continuity was so horrendous, that real life legal action had to be put into play to forget the mess that was written back in those days. None of what you stated comes close to comparing with it. None.

Also just because they were included in the tier system does not mean that it is in any way correct. It's actually a pretty slimy way of saying that you understand what I'm saying, but would prefer to just play dumb to make a point. PC DC is not canon to present day characters, and they can not be compared to them.

Yes, I am saying it is impossible for BP to actually have the strength to put Surfer in an armbar.the strength in his pinky finger, or even a flick of his thumb, should be enough to send Panther flying (if not punch a hole through him).
Even Surfer flexing would be able to break out of it, to say nothing of the fact that Surfer could just blast energy out of his back (I've been told the Power Cosmic is pretty powerful, no?)

But if you actually think that's fine, then we're done.

And no, not slimy. I'm saying I DON'T understand what you're saying, as its clear that one CAN compare them.

They all have low showings. EVERY character does. Morlun goes from tanking vibranium nukes, to being hurt by radiation from nukes.

Plastic Man goes from stretching for miles, to being ripped by Doomsday.

Superman is slower than Dr Light, yet goes FTL.

Flash can outrun Death, and himself, and his shadow, and is taken out by Deathstroke. Even though he can heal at the speed of light.

WW has reactions to deal with the Shattered God, but gets tagged by DS.

Spiderman can dodge bullets, but the Spot can tag him.

These are ALL post Crisis, recent (relatively) comics, btw.

Originally posted by Stoic
Doesn't matter. None of the PC era continuity is canon now. If it were DC wouldn't have gone above and beyond measure to eliminate all of the wackiness that came out of that era. And no, Prime was stronger than PC Validus, unless you're saying that he would have trouble destroying a planet. Just drop it, we won't see eye to eye on something as inconsistent as that era of comic writing. It should literally be banned from discussions because there is no way to accurately compare it to present day characters.

Don't even attempt to make sense or compare the feats of these days to these days. An argument can not be made on either side. As such I can make claim that present day characters would wipe the floor with those guys, and simply write off the feats by saying that the very substance that the PC era DC universe was made of very weak stuff in comparison to these days. I can say anything, because PC DC lacked continuity from virtually every perspective. It's literally like arguing who would win a fight between Popeye and present day Superman, or Wily Coyote vs Thor.

If we can't even make a Magneto vs Star Killer thread which happens to be easier to argue, how are we arguing PC DC vs anything other than characters from that particular era? So what Superman sneezed and erased a bunch of planets, but then turns around and gets nailed in the head by an average bank robber and hurt by the blow, I could simply say that those planets were made up of very weak materials to explain how he actually did that but was then hurt by an average everyday bank robber that nailed him in the back of the head. By feats, the bank robber would have been able to destroy a universe if he hurt the guy capable of doing so. Right? This is a ridiculous argument, tbh.

Originally posted by One Big Mob
Isn't that a Marvel vs Marvel only exclusive? Shit, yeah you're right. Must be a combo to ko on here somewhere though.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah and Nul kills Val. Simple as that. When PC Val one shots a planet he may be able to hang with Firelord.

PC Validus can functionally ignore people who are way way beyond the strength level of one shotting a planet.

PC Validus one-shot kills all of them.

If Validus can't hurt Juggernaut, he should be able to bfr him. The same way he knocked Superboy out of the solar system.