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If RotJ Sidious is a 100 and RotJ Vader is a 80, where would you place the following force users:
1) Yoda
2)Vitiate
3)RotS Anakin
4)Dooku
5)DD Vos
6)Exar Kun
7)Obi wan Kenobi

I'm just curious to see the gap you have between these guys

Valkorion = 150
Yoda = 90
Exar Kun = 85
Anakin Skywalker (Episode III) = 60
Count Dooku = 45
Quinlan Vos = 45
Obi-Wan Kenobi = 40

In what terms? I'mma guess power.

Originally posted by Total Warrior
If RotJ Sidious is a 100 and RotJ Vader is a 80 Well, the mathematical relation between Sidious and Vader doesn't even make sense. I mean does this suggest that someone who is only a quarter times as powerful as Vader is enough support for Vader to have a chance to overthrow Sidious? I highly doubt it.

But if this suggests that when measuring strength in the force, numbers function differently, then an increase from 80 to 100 is massive and people should number the others accordingly.

I would suggest ignoring the 80/100 relation between Vader and Sidious to make this thread more interesting.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In what terms? both saber skill and force power

Originally posted by Sinious
Well, the mathematical relation between Sidious and Vader doesn't even make sense. I mean does this suggest that someone who is only a quarter times as powerful as Vader is enough support for Vader to have a chance to overthrow Sidious? I highly doubt it.

But if this suggests that when measuring strength in the force, numbers function differently, then an increase from 80 to 100 is massive and people should number the others accordingly.

I would suggest ignoring the 80/100 relation between Vader and Sidious to make this thread more interesting. Yeah it doesn't really work that way, as Palpatine would pwn anyone who possessed a meager 20% of his power.

Yoda is 110.

Windu shouldn't be missed out as he's likely in the 90-95 region.

Originally posted by Sinious
I mean does this suggest that someone who is only a quarter times as powerful as Vader is enough support for Vader to have a chance to overthrow Sidious?





Well obviously not because that person would get blitz. Give Vader that extra formidability/power though and Sidious would be in trouble. Serious trouble.


But I agree with you to ignore the 100/80 thing. Because I would actually argue Vader is closer to Sidious than that

Originally posted by Total Warrior
both saber skill and force power I don't think those were the terms George was using. mmm

Originally posted by Sinious
Well, the mathematical relation between Sidious and Vader doesn't even make sense. I mean does this suggest that someone who is only a quarter times as powerful as Vader is enough support for Vader to have a chance to overthrow Sidious? I highly doubt it.

But if this suggests that when measuring strength in the force, numbers function differently, then an increase from 80 to 100 is massive and people should number the others accordingly.

I would suggest ignoring the 80/100 relation between Vader and Sidious to make this thread more interesting. ok, then let's ignore that quote

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yeah it doesn't really work that way, as Palpatine would pwn anyone who possessed a meager 20% of his power. Still, it doesn't make much sense.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well obviously not because that person would get blitz. Give Vader that extra formidability/power though and Sidious would be in trouble. Serious trouble.


But I agree with you to ignore the 100/80 thing. Because I would actually argue Vader is closer to Sidious than that I doubt it.

LOL

Originally posted by Sinious
Still, it doesn't make much sense. Well tbh there is no concrete source on just how much a threat Vader was to Palpatine.

Originally posted by Sinious
I doubt it.

LOL
Still waiting for some actual reasons.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Still waiting for some actual reasons. Originally posted by Beniboybling
Well tbh there is no concrete source on just how much a threat Vader was to Palpatine. Given how easily he can penetrate Vader's mind, how easily he can take him out with lightning, how easily he can defeat Galen(who is very much comparable to Vader) my skepticism is justified.

>implying that only a 20% power gap wouldn't be enough for that
>implying that use Vader's suit limitations is a measure of power
>implying Peak Vader couldn't "easily," because apparently causing a massive explosion is easy, defeat Marek

Vader: Power - 80% Sabers - 150%
Yoda: Power - 95% Sabers - 110%
Valkoriate: Power - 125% Sabers - 2%
Bane: Baldness - 2000% Sexiness - 120%

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
>implying that only a 20% power gap wouldn't be enough for that

stfu.

He can't easily defeat galen lol.

And yeah, given how Sidious took him out with a burst of lightning.

Originally posted by Sinious
stfu.

He can't easily defeat galen lol.

Sure he can. He's more powerful, more skilled, more intelligent, and less impulsive. And given the direction DP stated the TFU franchise was going in, I'm fine with concluding Vader is far above Marek.

>burst

Nah. You just need to admit Galen is impressive, hoe. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/uhuh.gif

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Valkorion = 150
Count Dooku = 45

Holy hell, what the fvck dude.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vader: Power - 80% Sabers - 150%




Damn I keep forgetting Vader's confirmed Saber ability.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Holy hell, what the fvck dude.
IKR

How dare he imply a peer of Darth Skotia is even near a third of Valkorion's power

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Sure he can. He's more powerful, more skilled, more intelligent, and less impulsive. And given the direction DP stated the TFU franchise was going in, I'm fine with concluding Vader is far above Marek.

>burst

Nah. You just need to admit Galen is impressive, hoe. http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/uhuh.gif No one hates Galen more than I do. The only respectable thing about him is he provides for the Sidious wank. So I'm on board with that lol

You're the one who says Vader>>>Galen

If Galen were in SWTOR you'd be masturbating furiously to him and his feats.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Damn I keep forgetting Vader's confirmed Saber ability. Based on what facts ?

Some magazine had an article about the Top 5 Red Lightsaber Wielders and Vader was No 1.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Some magazine had an article about the Top 5 Red Lightsaber Wielders and Vader was No 1. So just an opinion endorsed by a magazine and they believe this is factual. It's worse than I thought.

Stop listening to Neph. It's a sourcebook released by Disney as a part of The Journey to the Force Awakens. It's canon.

Originally posted by Sinious
You're the one who says Vader>>>Galen
That's because Vader is just more impressive.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Stop listening to Neph. It's a sourcebook released by Disney as a part of The Journey to the Force Awakens. It's canon. It still doesn't mean he's greater than all and is just an opinion whether it's canon or not. Debating is based off facts not the opinions of others. Otherwise why even debate and just reference the opinions of others. Opinions also vary on the people who have creative control over these characters.

It's not an opinion when it comes from the Mouth of God.

Originally posted by Sinious
And yeah, given how Sidious took him out with a burst of lightning. He rapidly overpowered him multiple times in TFU II, Force choked him in the game and was confirmed by Witwer to be holding back the whole time.

Sidious managed to "take out" Galen with a burst of lightning in a non-canon scene, by bypassing his guard, evidently something he couldn't do if (and when) Marek blocked his lightning with tutanimis.Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Stop listening to Neph. It's a sourcebook released by Disney as a part of The Journey to the Force Awakens. It's canon. Meh when I read it it seemed to be judging iconicity and infamy as much as skill. Not that it's an impossibility. mmm

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's not an opinion when it comes from the Mouth of God. Yes, it is. We also have varying different things said on Disney's site. If you don't want to debate just cite other people's opinions. I'll cite evidence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, it is. We also have varying different things said on Disney's site. If you don't want to debate just cite other people's opinions. I'll cite evidence. its not an opinion tho. Its a fact, in a cannon source book published by disney.

Only a fool seriously thinks Vaders a better swordsman than Sidious.

Only a fool seriously thinks Vitiate is better than Sidious.

We can do this all day.

Originally posted by ares834
Only a fool seriously thinks Vitiate is better than Sidious.
Valkorion actually is (with exception of skills with a Lightsaber).

Actually, Sidious is better.

Your move.

Originally posted by ares834
Only a fool seriously thinks Vitiate is better than Sidious.

We can do this all day.

False equivalency. Vitiate has plenty that show he's comparable with Sidious, and several things that indicate he's better in some area's. Vader hasn't shown jack to put him on Sidious' level.

Originally posted by Nephthys
False equivalency. Vitiate has plenty that show he's comparable with Sidious, and several things that indicate he's better in some area's. Vader hasn't shown jack to put him on Sidious' level.

Lords of the Sith did. We then, of course, have a canon source claiming he is the superior.

Originally posted by ares834
Lords of the Sith did. We then, of course, have a canon source claiming he is the superior.

In sabers? Doubt it (not that I believe that in any capacity lol). And a source supporting itself. Really adds something to the discussion, cheers.

In LotS, Sidious and Vader battle a Lylek Queen. A creature quick enough to tag even Sidious yet Vader is able to keep up with it. And since when does a canon source need support? We use sources to support our arguments not the other way around.

You're a good man, ares. Vader bless you.

Originally posted by ares834
In LotS, Sidious and Vader battle a Lylek Queen. A creature quick enough to tag even Sidious yet Vader is able to keep up with it. And since when does a canon source need support? We use sources to support our arguments not the other way around.

Sidious was holding back though, as Vader himself admitted.

I believe they said he "showed little of his true power" which would imply he did show his "true power" a small bit.

Which is still him massively holding back.

Which has tons to do with his saber skills? Vader was holding back in RotJ. Does that mean he wanted to get his hand cut off?

Originally posted by Raptor22
its not an opinion tho. Its a fact, in a cannon source book published by disney. No, it isn't. when I posted Windu's entry over established facts it was ignored. That actually happened but hypothetical rankings aren't.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Which has tons to do with his saber skills? Vader was holding back in RotJ. Does that mean he wanted to get his hand cut off? Prove he held back in Rotj.

Right after you prove you're worth responding to.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Right after you prove you're worth responding to. So you concede the claim. Wonderful.

Nope. I have quotes, but you're kind of terrible, so I don't see the point in giving them too you. You'll just find a way to dodge around it like you always do. I'd post them for everyone else to see, but everyone else has already seen them. Really no point in posting them at all, especially for you to just ignore anyway.

Freshet doing his best to avoid that chemo.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Nope. I have quotes, but you're kind of terrible, so I don't see the point in giving them too you. You'll just find a way to dodge around it like you always do. I'd post them for everyone else to see, but everyone else has already seen them. Really no point in posting them at all, especially for you to just ignore anyway. So why bring something up if you wont post it ? Are you just trying to increase your post count ? I don't ever ignore evidence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it isn't. when I posted Windu's entry over established facts it was ignored. That actually happened but hypothetical rankings aren't. it is, and people ignoring ur terrible arguments doesnt change that

Originally posted by Raptor22
it is, and people ignoring ur terrible arguments doesnt change that My arguments are based off established facts not some books opinions on certain characters skill levels. Writers have opinions as well that doesn't make them factual unless it pertains to something they handled previously.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My arguments are based off established facts not some books opinions on certain characters skill levels. Writers have opinions as well that doesn't make them factual unless it pertains to something they handled previously. it's not some writers opinion. This didn't come as an e-mail response to a readers question, or a post on some random website. Its a fact, in a cannon source published by disney. Once disney publishes it in a cannon source its no longer just a writers opinion, it becomes a cannon fact. Your personal opinion about it and ur made up rules simply dont matter.

Originally posted by Raptor22
it's not some writers opinion. This didn't come as an e-mail response to a readers question, or a post on some random website. Its a fact, in a cannon source published by disney. Once disney publishes it in a cannon source its no longer just a writers opinion, it becomes a cannon fact. Your personal opinion about it and ur made up rules simply dont matter. Disney has also stated Windu defeated Sidious and that's a fact. This is just an opinion by the people that submitted this. It's like some one arguing power levels for a marvel comics character based on a trading card saying see its canon. It's ridiculous.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Disney has also stated Windu defeated Sidious and that's a fact. This is just an opinion by the people that submitted this. It's like some one arguing power levels for a marvel comics character based on a trading card saying see its canon. It's ridiculous. sry but facts published in cannon sourcebooks hold much more value than ur opinion of nah uh it doesnt count.

Using your logic one could argue that the events of the movies aren't facts, since they are just the opinions of a writer/director about what they think would happen.

this is a fictional universe, the facts r whatever the owner of the liscense says they r.

disney cannon> quan doesn't like it so it doesn't count

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Damn I keep forgetting Vader's confirmed Saber ability.
Confirmed how? Just curious

Originally posted by Raptor22
sry but facts published in cannon sourcebooks hold much more value than ur opinion of nah uh it doesnt count.

Using your logic one could argue that the events of the movies aren't facts, since they are just the opinions of a writer/director about what they think would happen.

this is a fictional universe, the facts r whatever the owner of the liscense says they r.

disney cannon> quan doesn't like it so it doesn't count Just as the official handbooks of marvel which iirc classify Odin's strength as class 75 despite his showings as vastly superior to guys like Thor and the Hulk who are class 100's in strength.

The movies are indeed facts as they have occurred and the events thereby continued within are history. What isn't history is some vague skill wise top ten.

Just as in marvels canonized sourcebooks do not outweigh the actual comics aka the evidence. Disney canon are the films, live action series, comics, but the opinions of those who tell the stories or release the books are just those peoples opinions unless they cover a story they told.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just as the official handbooks of marvel which iirc classify Odin's strength as class 75 despite his showings as vastly superior to guys like Thor and the Hulk who are class 100's in strength.

The movies are indeed facts as they have occurred and the events thereby continued within are history. What isn't history is some vague skill wise top ten.

Just as in marvels canonized sourcebooks do not outweigh the actual comics aka the evidence. Disney canon are the films, live action series, comics, but the opinions of those who tell the stories or release the books are just those peoples opinions unless they cover a story they told. once again this is all just your opinion, which holds no weight compared to disneys official stance as to what r cannon facts and what are not.

"but the opinions of those who tell the stories or release the books are just those peoples opinions unless they cover a story they told."

u keep repeating that quote above. out of curosity could u provide me with a source or an official statement from disney announcing that "rule", because i dont remember them ever making such an a statement. im just going to go out on a limb here and guess that no statement exists and its just more of ur opinion.

Originally posted by Raptor22
once again this is all just your opinion, which holds no weight compared to disneys official stance as to what r cannon facts and what are not.

"but the opinions of those who tell the stories or release the books are just those peoples opinions unless they cover a story they told."

u keep repeating that quote above. out of curosity could u provide me with a source or an official statement from disney announcing that "rule", because i dont remember them ever making such an a statement. im just going to go out on a limb here and guess that no statement exists and its just more of ur opinion. I just gave you the same exact situation in which the handbooks are incorrect.

You obviously don't know the difference between opinion and fact. Windu beating Palpatine is a fact. Who would win their next matchup is an opinion. See the difference ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I just gave you the same exact situation in which the handbooks are incorrect.

You obviously don't know the difference between opinion and fact. Windu beating Palpatine is a fact. Who would win their next matchup is an opinion. See the difference ? i just disregarded it since they're two completly different universes with different rules that govern their cannon. what applies to one doesn't apply to the other. for instance in star wars what happens in the movies is cannon to to comics and vice versa, they share the same universe. marvel on the other hand does not. the things that happen in the thor, avengers, iron man etc... movies are not cannon nor tied to their comic counterparts. their rules and or inconsistencies between mediums have no bearing on eachothers

i believe it is u who does not understand. as it stands now, who would win a second matchup between the two is an opinion. However if disney were to publish, in a cannon sourcebook that the two had somehow fought again and declared a winner then it would become a cannon fact.

Originally posted by Raptor22
i just disregarded it since they're two completly different universes with different rules that govern their cannon. what applies to one doesn't apply to the other. for instance in star wars what happens in the movies is cannon to to comics and vice versa, they share the same universe. marvel on the other hand does not. the things that happen in the thor, avengers, iron man etc... movies are not cannon nor tied to their comic counterparts. their rules and or inconsistencies between mediums have no bearing on eachothers

i believe it is u who does not understand. as it stands now, who would win a second matchup between the two is an opinion. However if disney were to publish, in a cannon sourcebook that the two had somehow fought again and declared a winner then it would become a cannon fact. Both are considered canon not cannon. The official handbooks covered the comics only and we're still incorrect and largely ignored.

Yes, when Disney has these guys throw down it becomes a fact. Until then it's just an opinion. I can't believe posters are actually using that in these debates.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Both are considered canon not cannon. The official handbooks covered the comics only and we're still incorrect and largely ignored.

Yes, when Disney has these guys throw down it becomes a fact. Until then it's just an opinion. I can't believe posters are actually using that in these debates. once again their inconsistencies have nothing to do with the star wars universe. im sure there are alot of handbooks, sourcebooks, and guidebooks for alot of different universes that have contradictory info for their works across different mediums, just as im sure there are some that have their info spot on. fortunatly neither have any bearing on the rules for canon set down by disney.

by the way im still waiting on the source for that "rule" that says that statements made in canon works published under disney dont count unless they blah blah blah blah.

Originally posted by Sinious
Well, the mathematical relation between Sidious and Vader doesn't even make sense. I mean does this suggest that someone who is only a quarter times as powerful as Vader is enough support for Vader to have a chance to overthrow Sidious? I highly doubt it.

But if this suggests that when measuring strength in the force, numbers function differently, then an increase from 80 to 100 is massive and people should number the others accordingly.

I would suggest ignoring the 80/100 relation between Vader and Sidious to make this thread more interesting.


I view it as, you need to reach a certain threshhold before one can contribute, and contributing isn't quite additive.

Like, a 5 or a 20 would both contribute only slightly differentto a high level fight- maybe +1 and +3, mostly as a brief distraction. Or to put it another way, if 20 represented a normal Jedi Knight, you'd want 6 or so to help Vader beat Sidious.

A 70 might add +20 to an 80. That's when you start getting real 2 v 1 advantage, as neither is at the point where they'd go down fast.

Though things like personal compatibility and how well styles mesh would matter...

Originally posted by Raptor22
once again their inconsistencies have nothing to do with the star wars universe. im sure there are alot of handbooks, sourcebooks, and guidebooks for alot of different universes that have contradictory info for their works across different mediums, just as im sure there are some that have their info spot on. fortunatly neither have any bearing on the rules for canon set down by disney.

by the way im still waiting on the source for that "rule" that says that statements made in canon works published under disney dont count unless they blah blah blah blah. Again, if this is all that counts for you while summarily dismissing all live action feats, common sense, and logic that's fine. I think for myself based on the evidence aka the events not the opinions of the writers, etc. outside their own works.

Originally posted by Raptor22


by the way im still waiting on the source for that "rule" that says that statements made in canon works published under disney dont count unless they blah blah blah blah.



On the contrary Disney/Lucasfilm specifically stated that all the material they release now (unless it has a Legends banner) is Canon.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
On the contrary Disney/Lucasfilm specifically stated that all the material they release now (unless it has a Legends banner) is Canon. Over established facts but the rankings and all of that are all over the place and opinion based.

Canon video game backs my take on Vader; he's slow.

The Dark Lord of the Sith may be slow, but he destroys his foes with powerful saber swings and his dreaded force choke.


http://www.ign.com/beta/videos/2015/11/12/darth-vader-gameplay-in-star-wars-battlefront-at-1080p-60fps?utm_source=IGN%20hub%20page&utm_medium=IGN%20(front%20page)&utm_content=11&utm_campaign=Blogroll

Originally posted by quanchi112
Again, if this is all that counts for you while summarily dismissing all live action feats, common sense, and logic that's fine. I think for myself based on the evidence aka the events not the opinions of the writers, etc. outside their own works. I don't remember ever saying that its all that counts. Just that it does count. Unlike u I dont disregard canon material just because I dont like it. And like it or not, the comics, novels, and sourcebooks are all just as cannon as the movies and shows, and all have to be considered and factored in. Not just the ones that u personally like and feel should be included.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I don't remember ever saying that its all that counts. Just that it does count. Unlike u I dont disregard canon material just because I dont like it. And like it or not, the comics, novels, and sourcebooks are all just as cannon as the movies and shows, and all have to be considered and factored in. Not just the ones that u personally like and feel should be included. That isn't canon material it's an opinion about generalized rankings. Canon material are the films, series, comics, etc. you still don't know the difference.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
On the contrary Disney/Lucasfilm specifically stated that all the material they release now (unless it has a Legends banner) is Canon. wait. If what ur saying is true, that would mean that quan is trying to pass his opinion off as fact., and ignoring the rules for canon passed down by the licence holder.

Now I find it hard to believe that a man who is brimming with as much integrity as quan is would do such a thing.

I would thank u to not besmirch his good name any longer with ur made up statements from disney.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That isn't canon material it's an opinion about generalized rankings. Canon material are the films, series, comics, etc. you still don't know the difference. so even tho disney who owns all the rights to it says its cannon, it's actually not, because u say it isn't? I dont know quan, it sounds like bs to me. But if u will kindly show me a statement from disney backing ur stance ill consider it.

I do find it a little funny that a few posts before u were trying to pass gameplay mechanics, and what appears to be a quote from ign's review of the game as cannon, but not books confirmed to be cannon by disney.

Originally posted by Raptor22
so even tho disney who owns all the rights to it says its cannon, it's actually not, because u say it isn't? I dont know quan, it sounds like bs to me. But if u will kindly show me a statement from disney backing ur stance ill consider it.

I do find it a little funny that a few posts before u were trying to pass gameplay mechanics, and what appears to be a quote from ign's review of the game as cannon, but not books confirmed to be cannon by disney. Dude, they are just some throwaway rankings. The facts are what happens in the films.

Vader's portrayal in the game matches his speed from the films and the rebels show. He's always been slow and powerful.

Originally posted by Raptor22
so even tho disney who owns all the rights to it says its cannon, it's actually not, because u say it isn't? I dont know quan, it sounds like bs to me.

No, what he is trying to say is Vader's speed as it appears in comics and novels is hyperbole because he moves slowly in a movie from 1980.

Originally posted by Raptor22

I do find it a little funny that a few posts before u were trying to pass gameplay mechanics, and what appears to be a quote from ign's review of the game as cannon, but not books confirmed to be cannon by disney.

You want to know something even funnier? The same list he's claiming isn't canon here he himself used as evidence in the Movie Versus Forum to say Maul > Dooku

He'll use any "source" which agrees with him and dismiss any source which doesn't. That's Quan for you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Dude, they are just some throwaway rankings. The facts are what happens in the films.

Vader's portrayal in the game matches his speed from the films and the rebels show. He's always been slow and powerful. gee I wonder who we should listen to on what r cannon facts. Disney who owns it and says the cannon facts r from the movies, shows, novels, comics, and sourcebooks, or quan who just makes up random crap that he thinks will help his current argument.

Ah man its such a hard choice, I dont know which to believe.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You want to know something even funnier? The same list he's claiming isn't canon here he himself used as evidence in the Movie Versus Forum to say Maul > Dooku

He'll use any "source" which agrees with him and dismiss any source which doesn't. That's Quan for you. I thought I remembered something like that but wasn't certain. I think there was a top ten ranking list for jedi from starwars.com that he was using to argue another point as well around the same time but it could have been someone else.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You want to know something even funnier? The same list he's claiming isn't canon here he himself used as evidence in the Movie Versus Forum to say Maul > Dooku

He'll use any "source" which agrees with him and dismiss any source which doesn't. That's Quan for you. False, I don't play that way but I did ironically use that against you because you're that kind of guy. The reasons I cited for Maul winning are ironclad.

Originally posted by Trocity
No, what he is trying to say is Vader's speed as it appears in comics and novels is hyperbole because he moves slowly in a movie from 1980. He moves slowly in rebels and this video game because he's always been portrayed as quick with the Lightsaber but generally a slower moving guy.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I thought I remembered something like that but wasn't certain. I think there was a top ten ranking list for jedi from starwars.com that he was using to argue another point as well around the same time but it could have been someone else.


That was him too. It was Best 10 Jedi (which is of course subjective). But to be fair in that one he didn't use the ranking, he was using the description.

Originally posted by Raptor22
gee I wonder who we should listen to on what r cannon facts. Disney who owns it and says the cannon facts r from the movies, shows, novels, comics, and sourcebooks, or quan who just makes up random crap that he thinks will help his current argument.

Ah man its such a hard choice, I dont know which to believe. I cite the facts only. I'll reference an opinion here or there but don't act like its the end all be all. Again, realize that generalized rankings aren't absolute facts. The facts are the history of the films, series, comics, lore.

@Everyone: How seriously are we taking Palpatine as displayed in Battlefront? Not at all or semi?

1)Yoda ( 90 )
2)Vitiate ( ??? )
3)RotS Anakin ( 70 )
4)Dooku ( 75 )
5)DD Vos ( 70 )
6)Exar Kun ( ??? )
7)Obi wan Kenobi ( 65 )

105 (Edited):
- DE Palpatine
- Valkorion

100:
- (Base)
- NJO Skywalker

95:
- ROTS Yoda

90 (Edited):
- TPM Sidious
- DE Skywalker

85:
- SOR Revan
- Darth Krayt
- Darth Plagueis
- Darth Caedus

80:
- Darth Vader
- Exar Kun
- Starkiller
- Galen Marek
- Arcann
- Dread Masters

75:
- Marka Ragnos
- Tulak Hord
- Freedon Nadd
- Naga Sadow
- Karness Muur
- Darth Revan

70:
- Darth Malgus
- Darth Malak
- Darth Bane
- Ulic-Qel Droma
- Darth Wyyrlok
- Darth Tyranus

Just a rough draft. Mainly Sith.
Individuals within a tier not in order.

OP asked for specific people, oops. Here:

1)Yoda - 95
2)Vitiate - 105
3)RotS Anakin - 75/80
4)Dooku - 70
5)DD Vos - 65/70
6)Exar Kun - 80
7)Obi wan Kenobi - 65/70

Edited my original list a little bit for those who saw it originally.

Why are Vos and Kenobi on the same level when Vos has ragdolled Ventress?

TBH for my lists I'm including both Force power / lightsaber ability / everything combat applicable. Not just raw power.

That being said, Kenobi's deflecting TK attacks from an extremely angered and unrestrained Skywalker in the ROTS novel.

Plus, following his death, he's constantly referenced back to Luke and compared alongside Yoda as the end-all, be-all powerful Jedi.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
TBH for my lists I'm including both Force power / lightsaber ability / everything combat applicable. Not just raw power.

That being said, Kenobi's deflecting TK attacks from an extremely angered and unrestrained Skywalker in the ROTS novel.

Plus, following his death, he's constantly referenced back to Luke and compared alongside Yoda as the end-all, be-all powerful Jedi.

Ah gotcha.

A hindered Anakin you mean? :P

Not impressive considering the only two Jedi Luke met were Obi Wan and Yoda.

I don't consider Skywalker that hindered during the battle, TBH.

True, but he met guys like Kyp Durron (extremely powerful) and said he hadn't felt power like that since Kenobi (or something like that).

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't consider Skywalker that hindered during the battle, TBH.

True, but he met guys like Kyp Durron (extremely powerful) and said he hadn't felt power like that since Kenobi (or something like that).

Mmmm. Fair enough.

Eh still an accolade something I don't put much stock in.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It's not an opinion when it comes from the Mouth of God.

The Mouth of God (Dave Filoni) also states Luke is firmly below the level of a Council Master. And, we saw how Sidious treats council masters

^ Pretty sure the Mouth of God he was referring to was a source book.

Filoni can only be attributed that title when talking about his work.

Originally posted by Syndicate
1)Yoda ( 90 )
2)Vitiate ( ??? )
3)RotS Anakin ( 70 )
4)Dooku ( 75 )
5)DD Vos ( 70 )
6)Exar Kun ( ??? )
7)Obi wan Kenobi ( 65 )

This is the best one I've seen so far. I would say Vitiate is around the agora level at around 90 as well,but with his new feats he most likely is higher. Vos I would put below Kun due to lower force powers. Kun above Dooku as well in force power as well.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
OP asked for specific people, oops. Here:

1)Yoda - 95
2)Vitiate - 105
3)RotS Anakin - 75/80
4)Dooku - 70
5)DD Vos - 65/70
6)Exar Kun - 80
7)Obi wan Kenobi - 65/70

Most likely the list I would have put. Only issue is vitiate is 105. Also say that Anakin is 75 solid while Vader is 80.

No one's comparable to Sidious dudes

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tilotny ?

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Only issue is vitiate is 105. Also say that Anakin is 75 solid while Vader is 80.
Not seeing the problem.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not seeing the problem.

Vitate thing I'm now fine with, but Vader is more powerful and skilled then Anakin so I just sperated them in that way IMO. No big deal.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
but Vader is more powerful and skilled then Anakin so I just sperated them in that way IMO.
I doubt it.

Vader is more powerful ( not counting feats where Anakin was amped by force rage or had to concentrate I.E. collapsing a dome, manipulating a dreadnought ) but more skilled is debatable.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Vitate thing I'm now fine with, but Vader is more powerful and skilled then Anakin so I just sperated them in that way IMO. No big deal. Vader is also slower than pre suit Vader.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vader is also slower than pre suit Vader.

One aspect of fighting that doesn't determine the overall verdict. No I don't agree with your claim. Vader defintlly more powerful and entirely possible he's more skilled than Anakin, but everyone has their own opinions on that score.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
One aspect of fighting that doesn't determine the overall verdict. No I don't agree with your claim. Vader defintlly more powerful and entirely possible he's more skilled than Anakin, but everyone has their own opinions on that score. I didn't day it did. I just said the suit makes him a lot slower.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't day it did. I just said the suit makes him a lot slower.

His power in the force is greater so he can augment his speed greater which he has actually done in canon.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
His power in the force is greater so he can augment his speed greater which he has actually done in canon. So you flat out state canon doesn't matter and that your opinion of how once can and will use the force to augment his speed is all that matters to you. Well done, me. Well done.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So you flat out state canon doesn't matter and that your opinion of how once can and will use the force to augment his speed is all that matters to you. Well done, me. Well done.

From the statement I made, I'm not seeing how ignore canon. Lords of the Sith is a canon novel is it not? It says he augmented his speed to run faster than the emperor, while the emperor was holding back, the fact he moved that fast shows speed you ignore.

Yoda isn't more powerful than RotJ Sidious, lmfao.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
From the statement I made, I'm not seeing how ignore canon. Lords of the Sith is a canon novel is it not? It says he augmented his speed to run faster than the emperor, while the emperor was holding back, the fact he moved that fast shows speed you ignore. We don't see him move faster than Luke in battle so in direct comparison we see who is the faster of the two. We also don't know how fast Sidious or Vader are moving.

Originally posted by quanchi112
We don't see him move faster than Luke in battle so in direct comparison we see who is the faster of the two. We also don't know how fast Sidious or Vader are moving.

Desperation. We know when they move they move pretty much at superhuman speeds so it's common sense.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Desperation. We know when they move they move pretty much at superhuman speeds so it's common sense. We gauge the scenes in how they are shown. We see a clear difference in the force run from Qui and Kenobi but we have never seen that speed in a combat situation.