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Batman has 1 hour if prep. Fight is on top a warehouse roof. Punisher is fighting to kill.Who wins?

This belongs in the movie vs forum. With that said, Frank beats Batman silly before murdering him.

Ok. Can someone move this to the movie vs forum

Frank shoots him or stomps him in H2H

Screw Nolan Batman. Punisher 10/10.

Batman wins.

He knocked out like a dozen fully armed mobsters in 21 seconds on the dock and then walked off like it was cake.

In Dark Knight, we see him invade a night-club and knock out like 8 guys in 20 seconds again.

In Dark Knight Rises, even after his body is breaking down, he and Catwoman fought and smashed a dozen of Bane's henchmen, who were likely League of Shadow, as he mentioned "they're not street thugs, these are trained killers", in about 20 seconds without difficulty.

And if we wanted to get technical the anime Gotham Knight is considered Canon to the Nolan movies, and he was basically teleporting around smashing the shit out of people in it.

Nolan makes some action scenes go full speed, and others he slows down on purpose, because its not just an 'action beat', the entire thing is part of his storytelling narrative. So there's this impression that because some scenes he looks to be moving slow motion, like against Bane, that he's actually slow. No. he's actually a goddamn Bat-whirlwind of kickass.


Punisher nearly died fighting 8 dudes and used weapons on most of them and took almost 3 minutes.


He doesn't stand a chance.

Punisher easily. Throw Bane in as well, make it half a contest.

Bwa-the-haha-F'ing-HA.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman wins.

He knocked out like a dozen fully armed mobsters in 21 seconds on the dock and then walked off like it was cake.

In Dark Knight, we see him invade a night-club and knock out like 8 guys in 20 seconds again.

In Dark Knight Rises, even after his body is breaking down, he and Catwoman fought and smashed a dozen of Bane's henchmen, who were likely League of Shadow, as he mentioned "they're not street thugs, these are trained killers", in about 20 seconds without difficulty.

And if we wanted to get technical the anime Gotham Knight is considered Canon to the Nolan movies, and he was basically teleporting around smashing the shit out of people in it.

Nolan makes some action scenes go full speed, and others he slows down on purpose, because its not just an 'action beat', the entire thing is part of his storytelling narrative. So there's this impression that because some scenes he looks to be moving slow motion, like against Bane, that he's actually slow. No. he's actually a goddamn Bat-whirlwind of kickass.


Punisher nearly died fighting 8 dudes and used weapons on most of them and took almost 3 minutes.


He doesn't stand a chance. are you joking? Just because 21 seconds elapsed in real time, that doesn't mean that he was moving that fast.

In the Dark knight, we also see him struggle with dogs, struggle with the Jokers normal henchmen, an struggle with the joker too (none of whom are skilled).

See my first response to the rediculous notion that twenty seconds actually elapsed in their time for this feat.

Batman struggled and got the crap beaten out of him by bane while Frank disarmed and killed 8 prisoners carrying weapons and then he proceeded to evenly fight kingpin (a person that can decapitate other people with a car door and who also fought and nearly beat Murdock).

We've also seen how Frank (without armor and after getting ambushed) performs against an armored, fast moving martial artist in his first fight with Daredevil. The funny thing is that we've also seen Matt beat the everloving daylights out of the hand ninjas that he's come across and even while he was injured and half dead, he still beat the shit out of about ten thugs (to say nothing of how he fought the bikers while injured)

Frank also beat and killed three more soldiers in his fight at the diner and he the proceeded to kill a few dozen more. Oh and he also disarmed and knocked out a cop within three seconds in his first appearance.

Reads like sarcasm on second go.

Nobody said anything about guns so Bale Bats will be showing us if he can catch bullets with his teeth

He can catch them with his whole body.

Originally posted by riv6672
He can catch them with his whole body. yeah, I love the Nolan movies, but Bruce was just lackluster all around. Meanwhile, Frank apparently soloed several squads of other soldiers and secured an LZ by himself while his squad thought it was certain death. I just can't see Bruce winning when Frank casually beat daredevil into the ground while being ambushed from behind and without the armor that he aquires by the end of season 2.

Originally posted by Juntai
Batman wins.

He knocked out like a dozen fully armed mobsters in 21 seconds on the dock and then walked off like it was cake.

In Dark Knight, we see him invade a night-club and knock out like 8 guys in 20 seconds again.

In Dark Knight Rises, even after his body is breaking down, he and Catwoman fought and smashed a dozen of Bane's henchmen, who were likely League of Shadow, as he mentioned "they're not street thugs, these are trained killers", in about 20 seconds without difficulty.

And if we wanted to get technical the anime Gotham Knight is considered Canon to the Nolan movies, and he was basically teleporting around smashing the shit out of people in it.

Nolan makes some action scenes go full speed, and others he slows down on purpose, because its not just an 'action beat', the entire thing is part of his storytelling narrative. So there's this impression that because some scenes he looks to be moving slow motion, like against Bane, that he's actually slow. No. he's actually a goddamn Bat-whirlwind of kickass.


Punisher nearly died fighting 8 dudes and used weapons on most of them and took almost 3 minutes.


He doesn't stand a chance.

Castle also beat down Matt.

Bruce beats Matt, also.
He was decidedly meta.
He can drop leagues of dudes in seconds, and even fell from a skyscraper and crushed a car and walked away.
He jumped from the top of a parking garage and brought an escaping van to an instant stop and he smashed it into a van-cake.

Bane's punches were enough that when Batman ghosted out of the way, Bane blew a whole into a concrete pillar and cracked it.

Daredevil through the course of the series just gets the piss beat out of him constantly. He can barely survive random goons and mobsters.

That Hallway scene Bruce would have ran down and clobbered in seconds.

Bruce tends to one-shot most everyone he runs into, while DD has to hit dudes a ****ing ton it seems.

One ****ing shot and Daredevil would be damn near broken. And Bats is RIDICULOUSLY faster in combat.

Was hoping for sarcasm

He also has prep.

Ambushes Castle, puts a jury rigged jacket with a hook on him as a plane flies by.

Btw, Kingpin didn't decapitate that goon with the car door in one hit....did he?

^^^one hour, and this isnt comics Bats, who can do anything.


Not THIS Bruce.

He was decidedly not.

Romanticized description, nice.

Biased description, also nice.

Opinion as fact.

Seems to you, but then you say Bruce one shotted most everyone in those movies; your perception of reality cant really be trusted.

Opinion presented as fact.

One hour of prep? IIRC, when he extradited the guy from Hong Kong, it was all his own resources.

Assuming of course that this battle at the top of a warehouse takes place within a flying distance of a plane owned by Wayne Enterprises....all Bruce needs to prep for is to get the harness he already owns and knows works.

Using ones own resources doesnt equate to an hour of prep, but, hey, whatevs.

My point was, it takes even less prep.

He has to ring the pilot of the plane, get it all fuelled up etc, to fly over a specific area, at a specific time (i.e one hour from now).

As it's all his own resources, from his own company which he owns, an hour isn't even needed to do so.

A flight plan alone takes more than an hour.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_plan

Again, you're mixing your Bats. Comics Lets him fly unregistered aircraft in the city/the world with no reprucussions.
Wayne aircraft arent going to fly around unchecked. The pilot has to abide by regulations.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My point was, it takes even less prep.

He has to ring the pilot of the plane, get it all fuelled up etc, to fly over a specific area, at a specific time (i.e one hour from now).

As it's all his own resources, from his own company which he owns, an hour isn't even needed to do so.
Bateman doesn't need his prep if he can incapacitate Castle. So that's not an issue. He can win, if he ambushes Punisher with anything but violence.
I can't even remember if he had a utility belt.

Originally posted by riv6672
A flight plan alone takes more than an hour.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_plan

Again, you're mixing your Bats. Comics Lets him fly unregistered aircraft in the city/the world with no reprucussions.
Wayne aircraft arent going to fly around unchecked. The pilot has to abide by regulations.

Except he extradited a foreign national from Chinese sovereign territory....without repercussions.

He flew a giant cargo plane over HK, extracted Lau,and flew off. No Chinese military intervention, whether in or out of Chinese airspace. Effectively kidnapped a high ranking foreign national (he was very well protected, remember) and brought him to the US, even though the whole operation was as illegal as hell.

Meh, Bats can try and get fancy, but odds are Castle would just shoot him in the face.

Originally posted by Juntai
Bruce beats Matt, also.
He was decidedly meta.
He can drop leagues of dudes in seconds, and even fell from a skyscraper and crushed a car and walked away.
He jumped from the top of a parking garage and brought an escaping van to an instant stop and he smashed it into a van-cake.

Bane's punches were enough that when Batman ghosted out of the way, Bane blew a whole into a concrete pillar and cracked it.

Daredevil through the course of the series just gets the piss beat out of him constantly. He can barely survive random goons and mobsters.

That Hallway scene Bruce would have ran down and clobbered in seconds.

Bruce tends to one-shot most everyone he runs into, while DD has to hit dudes a ****ing ton it seems.

One ****ing shot and Daredevil would be damn near broken. And Bats is RIDICULOUSLY faster in combat. Originally posted by riv6672
^^^one hour, and this isnt comics Bats, who can do anything.


Not THIS Bruce.

He was decidedly not.

Romanticized description, nice.

Biased description, also nice.

Opinion as fact.

Seems to you, but then you say Bruce one shotted most everyone in those movies; your perception of reality cant really be trusted.

Opinion presented as fact. I don't think I could've replied to those rediculous statements better myself.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
One hour of prep? IIRC, when he extradited the guy from Hong Kong, it was all his own resources.

Assuming of course that this battle at the top of a warehouse takes place within a flying distance of a plane owned by Wayne Enterprises....all Bruce needs to prep for is to get the harness he already owns and knows works. He also had weeks of prep to prepare for bane and do you know what his big plan was? To punch bane in the face a bunch of times until his mask broke and even then he got outsmarted by Talia. His big plan against the Joker? Punch him in the face a bunch of times and string him up. Even then, Joker still had him on the ropes and could've killed him I he didn't stop to banter. So yeah, he turned the lights off and beat up some random goons before abducting an accountant with no skill. Doesn't mean that he's going to get Frank in the same way.

So your view of the fight is that Bats will use that 1 he to go fisticuffs against a sniper who's armed to the teeth with long range weaponry?

Ok.

My view is equally valid. As it is also based on what happened in the movies. Skill or no skill, accountant or not, it's still a valid tactic, based on what's happened, and his resources.

This isn't a thrilling fight where Bats has to show the audience what an amazing fighter (or not) he is. BFR is a cheap tactic, but it wins fights.

Batman tries his best to win. He doesn't fight with honour, man to man. He uses his superior tech and every cheap trick in the book.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So your view of the fight is that Bats will use that 1 he to go fisticuffs against a sniper who's armed to the teeth with long range weaponry?

Ok.

My view is equally valid. As it is also based on what happened in the movies. Skill or no skill, accountant or not, it's still a valid tactic, based on what's happened, and his resources.

This isn't a thrilling fight where Bats has to show the audience what an amazing fighter (or not) he is. BFR is a cheap tactic, but it wins fights.

Batman tries his best to win. He doesn't fight with honour, man to man. He uses his superior tech and every cheap trick in the book. joker and three Rottweilers also wrecked Batman.

thanks for proving my point, lol.

The more low showings you use, the more it convinces me that hey, Batman WON'T go Mano a Mano with Punisher. After all, he knows an untrained (possibly?) Joker ripped him apart...what more to say a highly professional, possibly deranged war vet?

Why risk it? No ego here. No need to send a sign to the city, or whatever. Just end the fight,as surely and as quickly as possible.

Batman wins with BFR

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
thanks for proving my point, lol.

The more low showings you use, the more it convinces me that hey, Batman WON'T go Mano a Mano with Punisher. After all, he knows an untrained (possibly?) Joker ripped him apart...what more to say a highly professional, possibly deranged war vet?

Why risk it? No ego here. No need to send a sign to the city, or whatever. Just end the fight,as surely and as quickly as possible.

Batman wins with BFR except that even with his resources and weeks to prepare, he still chose to go for a fist fight with bane (a highly skilled, physically superior, possibly deranged killer). Just because he can bfr, doesn't mean that he does. He didn't do it in any of the movies and even if he is fighting to the best of his abilities, he still is in character.

nt

His intelligence is also part of his abilities

PIS, where he has to fight Bane in a showdown for the city to show them he has returned, stronger than ever, is not needed here. He also had the Batplane on standby, and was only undone by Talias betrayal.

Don't forget, too, that Bane had bankrupted Wayne, and stolen all his tech, lol, when he came back from India. So hardly at his optimum.

Originally posted by Juntai

And if we wanted to get technical the anime Gotham Knight is considered Canon to the Nolan movies, and he was basically teleporting around smashing the shit out of people in it.
The way I remember those scenes, they were all being retold by those kids, right? And each kid embellished different parts of Batman, contributing to the larger Bat myth. So, feats shouldn't be usable.

It's been a while since I've watched it though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
His intelligence is also part of his abilities

PIS, where he has to fight Bane in a showdown for the city to show them he has returned, stronger than ever, is not needed here. He also had the Batplane on standby, and was only undone by Talias betrayal.

Don't forget, too, that Bane had bankrupted Wayne, and stolen all his tech, lol, when he came back from India. So hardly at his optimum. his intelligence was played up far less in the movies. He was more of a skilled detective with h2h abilities. Hell, Lucius was the one that made all of his gadgets and Lucius was also the one that told Batman about the skyhook program.

I can overlook the bane showing. But in Batman begins, he could've just blown up the train pillars and let Ra's seal his own fate, but he instead went for a fist fight.

In the Dark Knight, he could've just gassed the building and then taken the joker down while swat sorted out who was a henchman and who wasn't. Instead, he went for a fist fight (that he was losing btw).

Out of the box thinking doesn't seem to be his forte tbh.

Originally posted by riv6672

Not THIS Bruce.

He was decidedly not.

Romanticized description, nice.

Biased description, also nice.

Opinion as fact.

Seems to you, but then you say Bruce one shotted most everyone in those movies; your perception of reality cant really be trusted.

Opinion presented as fact. Absolutely this Bruce.

Daredevil show has better fight choreography, but Batman trumps him in results.

Nolan purposely went for this because a Batman that was fast and brutal rather than flashy and dance-like.


His first real outing as Batman he took a dozen guys in 21 seconds. There's even frame of reference because a guy steps around the corner and sees it, and can barely get around the corner of a shipping container and into a car before its over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq85kxJfcLA

He takes on half a dozen again here in seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMiEhOkKVAs

Bats and Catwoman dropping dropping a dozen thugs in seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW2tMntp120&t=27s

After his initial tackle to change the location of the fight, he gets surrounded by 4 attacking League of Shadows at once at 27 seconds mark, and he crashes the last one to the ground 30 seconds later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgWCZvowEjY&feature=youtu.be


Takes out a handful of Jokers guys in seconds, only extended because he's momentarily grabbed, but Joker still can't land a shot on him, then jumps from a skyscraper to save Rachel and crashes into a car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFHccsaTakg

Batman vs Scarecrow and a handful of armed guards in an open area. He's so fast and brutal they can get never get an aim on him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqLDCIZ1DIs&feature=youtu.be&t=45s

Here he's running down a corridor straight at a guy while evading gunfire
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235159/5569502-m2gogqj+-+imgur.gif

This is how hard Bane hits. These are what Bruce is getting hit with, and keeps fighting.
https://i.stack.imgur.com/6dibC.gif


Not only did he do the previous drop from a skyscraper into a car. In his early outing he got surprised by scarecrow, hit with fear toxin, set on fire, leapt from a 4th story window, crashed into a car, put himself out and got up and out of the way.
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235159/5569601-h6ocjet+-+imgur.gif

When he finally engages, he takes a couple guys in seconds, drags a guy while being attacked by the dogs and just casually tosses it, gets hit by a van a grabs it. The van drives him into a pole he's cutting into the side of it, and he just stands up and drops down and smashes the whole thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB3qdnHeIJQ


He's in an entirely different league than Daredevil. Shit Daredevil barely survived would be an inconvienience at most on the fly, and here he has the prep on his side.

Correction. - not thugs, trained killers in the scene with Catwoman.

have some examples of DD being faster more brutal and efficient, or stronger or injury resistant?

Looks like we've got a Batman fanboy here.


...that's what you call someone that uses logic and makes well reasoned arguments based on feats, right? A fanboy? Because people keep calling me a Superman fanboy, and all I do is make logical, well reasoned arguments.

Originally posted by Juntai
Absolutely this Bruce.

Daredevil show has better fight choreography, but Batman trumps him in results.

Nolan purposely went for this because a Batman that was fast and brutal rather than flashy and dance-like.


His first real outing as Batman he took a dozen guys in 21 seconds. There's even frame of reference because a guy steps around the corner and sees it, and can barely get around the corner of a shipping container and into a car before its over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mq85kxJfcLA

He takes on half a dozen again here in seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMiEhOkKVAs

Bats and Catwoman dropping dropping a dozen thugs in seconds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW2tMntp120&t=27s

After his initial tackle to change the location of the fight, he gets surrounded by 4 attacking League of Shadows at once at 27 seconds mark, and he crashes the last one to the ground 30 seconds later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgWCZvowEjY&feature=youtu.be


Takes out a handful of Jokers guys in seconds, only extended because he's momentarily grabbed, but Joker still can't land a shot on him, then jumps from a skyscraper to save Rachel and crashes into a car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFHccsaTakg

Batman vs Scarecrow and a handful of armed guards in an open area. He's so fast and brutal they can get never get an aim on him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqLDCIZ1DIs&feature=youtu.be&t=45s

Here he's running down a corridor straight at a guy while evading gunfire
http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235159/5569502-m2gogqj+-+imgur.gif

This is how hard Bane hits. These are what Bruce is getting hit with, and keeps fighting.
https://i.stack.imgur.com/6dibC.gif


Not only did he do the previous drop from a skyscraper into a car. In his early outing he got surprised by scarecrow, hit with fear toxin, set on fire, leapt from a 4th story window, crashed into a car, put himself out and got up and out of the way.
http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11123/111235159/5569601-h6ocjet+-+imgur.gif

When he finally engages, he takes a couple guys in seconds, drags a guy while being attacked by the dogs and just casually tosses it, gets hit by a van a grabs it. The van drives him into a pole he's cutting into the side of it, and he just stands up and drops down and smashes the whole thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB3qdnHeIJQ


He's in an entirely different league than Daredevil. Shit Daredevil barely survived would be an inconvienience at most on the fly, and here he has the prep on his side. gets wrecked by the joker with three Rottweilers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arXHSWuJMI0

Takes out three goons before getting laid out by the fourth. Notice how joker could've just shot him instead of going for Rachael.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSqGupieog

"Clearly meta." Gets knocked unconscious by crashing a motorcycle even when he has armor on.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mKl11EzMTAE

Gets wrecked by bane (a character with a high level of pain tolerance and debatable skill)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rDuetklFtDQ

Meanwhile, Matt while half dead and horribly injured still takes out between 6-8 armed thugs while getting hit very few times.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B66feInucFY

Daredevil fights and beats four trained hand ninjas who were masking their noises. Matt was essentially fighting blind and still owned them when he got the hang of it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JnVz5kbXOJA

An injured daredevil takes out two dozen armed bikers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CvkiPS5Ks

He and elektra (who is inferior to him in h2h ) beat nobu (an actual meta) and the dozen other hand ninjas that he brought with him.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yc96eJMEBII

Matt still got the shit kicked out of him by Frank. Note how Matt gets the drop on him twice.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjHNJ0tyiY

Matt gets the drop on him again. Frank falls several feet off of the water tower, lands on his back, falls a few more feet, landing on his face, gets back up, and proceeds to evenly fight Matt while bullets are narrowly missing him. (Unlike Batman, Frank didn't have the luxury of wearing armor for this feat.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kN59PQvvWQE

Beats down nine prisoners (most of whom were armed) and the only points in time that he didn't seem to be in control was when he was stabbed in the arm and when one prisoner blindsided him when he was dealing with another.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M8AvWkrppsg

Even after being injured, he evenly fights the kingpin. Notice that he's chained and can't fight properly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqXwlkBjpA

After being tortured, he escapes kills three gangsters, gets shot a couple of times, and is still in good enough condition to three piece two thugs. Oh, and is that also the supposedly "weak" daredevil that "gets beat up by thugs" casually two shotting them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xce0cl3WJx0

Oh, and BTW, running down a dark alley and dodging your opponents aim is not even close to actually dodging gunfire.
You might wanna take those rose colored glasses off.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except he extradited a foreign national from Chinese sovereign territory....without repercussions.

He flew a giant cargo plane over HK, extracted Lau,and flew off. No Chinese military intervention, whether in or out of Chinese airspace. Effectively kidnapped a high ranking foreign national (he was very well protected, remember) and brought him to the US, even though the whole operation was as illegal as hell.
Yes, and he didnt do THAT in an hour either, and used sources that couldnt be traced back to him.
What you suggested was he use his own resources, his own plane, to beat Punisher.
Thats what i rebutted.
Nice try at circling around though.

I'll let this drop, as when we disagree it results in you getting really catty, and i'd rather not go there right now.

Originally posted by riv6672
Yes, and he didnt do THAT in an hour either, and used sources that couldnt be traced back to him.
What you suggested was he use his own resources, his own plane, to beat Punisher.
Thats what i rebutted.
Nice try at circling around though.

I'll let this drop, as when we disagree it results in you getting really catty, and i'd rather not go there right now.

Yeah, he used a cargo plane etc.

Here? Batplane.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, he used a cargo plane etc.

Here? Batplane. except for how it was destroyed in the last movie!

Originally posted by deathslash
except for how it was destroyed in the last movie!

HE HAS 75 PLANES

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
HE HAS 75 PLANES bane stole all of his assets though.

Originally posted by deathslash
gets wrecked by the joker with three Rottweilers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=arXHSWuJMI0

Takes out three goons before getting laid out by the fourth. Notice how joker could've just shot him instead of going for Rachael.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhSqGupieog

"Clearly meta." Gets knocked unconscious by crashing a motorcycle even when he has armor on.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mKl11EzMTAE

Gets wrecked by bane (a character with a high level of pain tolerance and debatable skill)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rDuetklFtDQ

Meanwhile, Matt while half dead and horribly injured still takes out between 6-8 armed thugs while getting hit very few times.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B66feInucFY

Daredevil fights and beats four trained hand ninjas who were masking their noises. Matt was essentially fighting blind and still owned them when he got the hang of it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JnVz5kbXOJA

An injured daredevil takes out two dozen armed bikers.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CvkiPS5Ks

He and elektra (who is inferior to him in h2h ) beat nobu (an actual meta) and the dozen other hand ninjas that he brought with him.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yc96eJMEBII

Matt still got the shit kicked out of him by Frank. Note how Matt gets the drop on him twice.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KLjHNJ0tyiY

Matt gets the drop on him again. Frank falls several feet off of the water tower, lands on his back, falls a few more feet, landing on his face, gets back up, and proceeds to evenly fight Matt while bullets are narrowly missing him. (Unlike Batman, Frank didn't have the luxury of wearing armor for this feat.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kN59PQvvWQE

Beats down nine prisoners (most of whom were armed) and the only points in time that he didn't seem to be in control was when he was stabbed in the arm and when one prisoner blindsided him when he was dealing with another.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M8AvWkrppsg

Even after being injured, he evenly fights the kingpin. Notice that he's chained and can't fight properly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqXwlkBjpA

After being tortured, he escapes kills three gangsters, gets shot a couple of times, and is still in good enough condition to three piece two thugs. Oh, and is that also the supposedly "weak" daredevil that "gets beat up by thugs" casually two shotting them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xce0cl3WJx0

Oh, and BTW, running down a dark alley and dodging your opponents aim is not even close to actually dodging gunfire.
You might wanna take those rose colored glasses off. Daredevil or Punisher both with feats of fighting a handful of guys in a hallway for almost 3 minutes up to almost 6, looking exhausted and taking damage = Batman railroading a dozen armed guys in under 30 seconds and walking away like it was easy several times?

The fact that have you note how much damage he has sustained in these fights and before these fights should generally tell you what you need to know.


Here Batman KOs 7 fully armed Bane mercs in 16 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqtVG72Amcg

And DKRises is Bruce way past his prime.


The difference between these showings and yours of dragging on and on and taking a ton of damage is drastic. Not one you showed stacks up imo.

Oh, and people shooting directly at you, and you coming out unscathed, is evading gunfire.
Even if you were across a street, ducking between tables, if you're being shot at, you're evading gunfire.
However, he was running straight at the guy, while evading gunfire in a corridor.

Originally posted by Juntai
Daredevil or Punisher both with feats of fighting a handful of guys in a hallway for almost 3 minutes up to almost 6, looking exhausted and taking damage = Batman railroading a dozen armed guys in under 30 seconds and walking away like it was easy several times?

The fact that have you note how much damage he has sustained in these fights and before these fights should generally tell you what you need to know.


Here Batman KOs 7 fully armed Bane mercs in 16 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqtVG72Amcg

And DKRises is Bruce way past his prime.


The difference between these showings and yours of dragging on and on and taking a ton of damage is drastic. Not one you showed stacks up imo.

Oh, and people shooting directly at you, and you coming out unscathed, is evading gunfire.
Even if you were across a street, ducking between tables, if you're being shot at, you're evading gunfire.
However, he was running straight at the guy, while evading gunfire in a corridor. a handful​? Do you seriously think you're not lowballing? I even told you the number of people that they fought.

Noting that an injured Daredevil still casually beats two dozen armed thugs (some of which are military vets) does tell me all I need to know. Especially when a full health daredevil two shots goons while saving the punisher.

And here Batman gets three pieced by the joker and some dogs (this is after Batman got new armor so that he could actually fight dogs and not get torn to shreds)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X5-phrSTIUs

Those "decisively meta" stats. Such impressive. Much wow.

Them taking "a ton of damage" is only after they've been horribly injured first and even then, they still win their fights.

That's called aim dodging. Bruce was portrayed as a physically fit human throughout the movies, but he did absolutely nothing to support the thought that he can dodge bullets. Even if he could, I'd like to see you actually try to prove that the nameless thug that was shooting at him has even half of Frank's skills.

You also failed to address how Elektra and Daredevil were oneshotting highly trained hand ninjas.

Originally posted by deathslash
a handful​? Do you seriously think you're not lowballing? I even told you the number of people that they fought.

Noting that an injured Daredevil still casually beats two dozen armed thugs (some of which are military vets) does tell me all I need to know. Especially when a full health daredevil two shots goons while saving the punisher.

And here Batman gets three pieced by the joker and some dogs (this is after Batman got new armor so that he could actually fight dogs and not get torn to shreds)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X5-phrSTIUs

Those "decisively meta" stats. Such impressive. Much wow.

Them taking "a ton of damage" is only after they've been horribly injured first and even then, they still win their fights.

That's called aim dodging. Bruce was portrayed as a physically fit human throughout the movies, but he did absolutely nothing to support the thought that he can dodge bullets. Even if he could, I'd like to see you actually try to prove that the nameless thug that was shooting at him has even half of Frank's skills.

You also failed to address how Elektra and Daredevil were oneshotting highly trained hand ninjas. Call it whatever you like, it's still correctly identified as dodging gunfire.

Bats smashes groups of guys in fraction of time, without the damage.

Frank isn't getting prep like Joker. Batman is the one with prep here.
Likewise he likely isnt going to need to use sonar vision that will get knocked haywire. Nor is Frank going to have all the traps set, like the netting, nor the dogs.

In the rooftop scene, Daredevil just fought Nobu the whole time and he was losing, elektra was 'one shotting' by stabbing them, lol.
I dunno how Eletra stabbing some guys while Daredevil fights but is losing to another dude applies to Frank winning, but OK.
None of it still matches Batman's feats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc96eJMEBII&app=desktop

Bruce would have done in a fraction of the time. He drops groups in seconds. Even his fights against groups of league of Shadows ninjas, he drops in seconds and they could barely react to him, as I showed before.


Frank's Prison scene would have been seconds for Batman, and he wouldn't have almost died doing it.

Remember, Bruce had known several styles and pretty easily smashed 7 guys at once in about 40 seconds just for practice in the Prison before ever training with the league, essentially an amateur compared them or where he was as Batman.

They trained him to be Brutal and not flashy, in his initial fight with Ra's, it was shown that Bruce already knew several styles, and Ra's remarked 'you are skilled, but this is not a dance", and effortlessly beat him. He trained him to be fast, effective and brutal, its why his fight style isn't kung fu flash like Daredevils, even though he knows many Kung Fu styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_3Tu32OUSs


Here Daredevil and Elektra were taking on 7 Hand Ninjas and almost died until Stick saved them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VfMZmIMp5A

This fight would have been seconds for Batman.
In fact, they attacked in a couple waves. He would have been standing around waiting for the other waves to get there.


I gave you an entire post with like a dozen examples of Bruce absolutely railroading guys in seconds.
And you give me a bunch of 3-5 minute scenes of Daredevil and Frank ****ing scraping by and nearly dying and pretending like its even close to equal.

^^^Thank you. And right back at you for this reply...

...ppl are still attributing comic Bats attributes to Nolan Bats.
Truth is, Nolan Batman was just Not. That. Good.

Juntai obsessing over the length of fights and ignoring the skill of opponents

I feel like Nolan's DK is less grounded in realism than the Netflix shows when it comes to strength. He had Bane punch a hole in a column by accident. Meanwhile, Fisk's best punch couldn't ko an old fragile accountant. He needed to follow up by throwing him into an elevator shaft. I remember that annoyed me. Bane would've taken his head off.

Originally posted by SamZED
I feel like Nolan's DK is less grounded in realism than the Netflix shows when it comes to strength. He had Bane punch a hole in a column by accident. Meanwhile, Fisk's best punch couldn't ko an old fragile accountant. He needed to follow up by throwing him into an elevator shaft. I remember that annoyed me. Bane would've taken his head off. Nolan's trilogy is pretty close to realism.
Batman couldn't handle a rottie. Rotties are no joke in real life, so fair enough.
Joker was bombing the neighbourhood, so obviously a column here or there would be weakened, especially after ten or so years later.
Nolans grounded as f*ck
Joker with the crowbar, absolutely nothing Bateman could do. No sword for Bats like BB, so you take away his best and only skill feat worth noting.
Batemans got nothing. His suit can't even protect his back from being broken. Batman is as real a figure as you can get. Punisher wrecks him.


I could be wrong about everything. Trilogy was terrible, struggling to remember anything.

Oh no you're correct. I was about to make the same comments, concerning the realism grounding, to the same post, before i read your post directly after.

Originally posted by krisblaze
Juntai obsessing over the length of fights and ignoring the skill of opponents Because random thug, or hired killer A and B, or random ninja A are tougher and more skilled on Daredevil, just because.

Just because you say so.

No BFR allowed .

Too late!

Bump

Punisher still kicks his ass.

Batman. One sided prep seals the deal...he doesn't even need to go h2h.

Originally posted by deathslash
Punisher still kicks his ass. yeah, nothing's changed.

Originally posted by deathslash
Punisher still kicks his ass.
Now that's called a salty post after getting your ass kicked.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Now that's called a salty post after getting your ass kicked. pretty sure that I won the debate after demonstrating just how wrong juntai was in saying that Batman was "decidedly meta" while ignoring that normal goons and dogs nearly killed him. I then backed up my beliefs by showing Frank (without any of the advanced armor or weapons that he currently has) getting jumped, tanking hits that would put most people in the hospital, and then beating or killing his opponents.

Nolan deliberately made his Batman UNmeta.

Originally posted by deathslash
pretty sure that I won the debate after demonstrating just how wrong juntai was in saying that Batman was "decidedly meta" while ignoring that normal goons and dogs nearly killed him. I then backed up my beliefs by showing Frank (without any of the advanced armor or weapons that he currently has) getting jumped, tanking hits that would put most people in the hospital, and then beating or killing his opponents.

Not against me you didn't!

I am ignoring the OP, btw,as too much time had passed.

^^^convenient.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not against me you didn't!

I am ignoring the OP, btw,as too much time had passed. bane seized all of his assets. He has no batplane!

Originally posted by deathslash
normal goons and dogs nearly killed him. B]

this didn't happen

Originally posted by deathslash
bane seized all of his assets. He has no batplane!

He still managed to get from deepest darkest middle of nowhere India, to Gotham.

Moreover, even if Bane had seized all his assets...he still had a Batplane,plus his suit etc all tucked away somewhere.

I reckon Bane had only taken what was in the cave. Because he had the plane to fly the bomb out of Gotham.

Originally posted by deathslash
pretty sure that I won the debate after demonstrating just how wrong juntai was in saying that Batman was "decidedly meta" while ignoring that normal goons and dogs nearly killed him. I then backed up my beliefs by showing Frank (without any of the advanced armor or weapons that he currently has) getting jumped, tanking hits that would put most people in the hospital, and then beating or killing his opponents.
That's just rubbish.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
this didn't happen
Sorry, meant to say the Joker and dogs. That's what I get for posting at 2:00 AM.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's just rubbish. *has nothing that can be disproven about what I said*
*Calls the post rubbish*

Ok

Originally posted by deathslash
Sorry, meant to say the Joker and dogs. That's what I get for posting at 2:00 AM.


Ok

No i was referring to the part where u said "nearly killed" that didnt happen. They were a threat like any other...by your assertion any time a character has any other character at a disadvantage theyre nearly killed. Youre summary is a misrepresentation

A colorful turn of phrase doesnt make it untrue.
Its like saying character A 'stomps easily'.

Originally posted by riv6672
A colorful turn of phrase doesnt make it untrue.
Its like saying character A 'stomps easily'.

No. A turn of phrase is just an artful way of stating what is...such as calling the sun a big orange orb. Its based on FACT.

Saying someone "stomps" is a opinion that can be based on anything.

What deathslash said is at best misleading..at worst a lie.

Potato potahto.

Originally posted by deathslash
Sorry, meant to say the Joker and dogs. That's what I get for posting at 2:00 AM.
*has nothing that can be disproven about what I said*
*Calls the post rubbish*

Ok


Can you tell us again where Punisher was attacked by two rottweilers and wasn't "nearly killed"?

^^^i love when posters pull out 'prove a negative', and theyre actually serioys about it.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
No. A turn of phrase is just an artful way of stating what is...such as calling the sun a big orange orb. Its based on FACT.

Saying someone "stomps" is a opinion that can be based on anything.

What deathslash said is at best misleading..at worst a lie. Punisher will kill batman before the ad break.
You're arguing semantics.
It's only because of his batsuit he wasn't mauled to death, by a DOG lol.

haha

Originally posted by emu
Punisher will kill batman before the ad break.
You're arguing semantics.
It's only because of his batsuit he wasn't mauled to death, by a DOG lol.

Arguing semantics? It did not happen period, i corrected a false claim. By your own admission you cant accurately recall the trilogy so unless youre gonna actually contribute it's best not to comment

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Arguing semantics? It did not happen period, i corrected a false claim. By your own admission you cant accurately recall the trilogy so unless youre gonna actually contribute it's best not to comment Pretty sure the claims tongue in cheek, especially when its Batman getting ground and pounded by a clown and a few dogs.

Evryone got it, why didn't you?

Punisher's damage soak alone would of tanked the dogs, and shotgunned the face off of Joker.

Originally posted by abhilegend


Can you tell us again where Punisher was attacked by two rottweilers and wasn't "nearly killed"? funny thing here is that frank was so manly that he made the attack dog of the Irish into his personal pet.

Batman gets beaten up by an unskilled clown and some dogs even when wearing armor specifically so that he wouldn't get mauled by dogs anymore.

Meanwhile, Frank makes attack dogs into his pets and beats up gangsters even after being tortured and having a hole in his foot.

Originally posted by emu
Pretty sure the claims tongue in cheek, especially when its Batman getting ground and pounded by a clown and a few dogs.

Evryone got it, why didn't you?

Punisher's damage soak alone would of tanked the dogs, and shotgunned the face off of Joker.

Right only people agreeing are either biased or misinterpreting the scene. He one shot one dog, fought off two while being wailed on by joker. Took out the remaining two dogs while kickiing Joker away..if not for a convenient net and his malfunctioning cowl it would have have been even easier. Not sure if u lack basic comprehensive or jus trollin.

In any event all that and Castles damage soak is moot because he has no answer for batmans prep. If this was strictly h2h thered be an argument

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Right only people agreeing are either biased or misinterpreting the scene. He one shot one dog, fought off two while being wailed on by joker. Took out the remaining two dogs while kickiing Joker away..if not for a convenient net and his malfunctioning cowl it would have have been even easier. Not sure if u lack basic comprehensive or jus trollin.

In any event all that and Castles damage soak is moot because he has no answer for batmans prep. If this was strictly h2h thered be an argument What prep are we talking about? His belt is useless. Couple of wire ropes, a hook, some pellets that were worthless against Bane.....anything else? Batarangs. His only hope here. Good against faceless goons, don't know about close quarters when Punisher closes the distance.
Oh yes, the plane. Your only argument. Has to have everything go right to pull that off.

Threw a dog over a rail, congrats, still had a dog maul his ass. Got jumped on by the joker, and two more dogs...do you want him to lay on his back with Punisher? Would get g+p into oblivion.

So much for stealth Batman.

Except it has a 100% success rate, with zero repercussions for Bats.

I wasnt even referring to sky hook. Tumbler would suffice. Wouldnt even have to get out the car

It was the first thing that came to my head, and tbh I didn't think of others.

The image of Punisher, loaded for bear and bristling with machismo and weaponry, only to get Skyhooked away, was just too hilarious.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I wasnt even referring to sky hook. Tumbler would suffice. Wouldnt even have to get out the car Batmans tumbler on the warehouse roof?

Lol, just give the win to Punisher

The tumbler could jump from roof to roof, see the first Nolan film.

It was built to jump over rivers, after all.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
The tumbler could jump from roof to roof, see the first Nolan film.

It was built to jump over rivers, after all. .......Yeah, that rings a bell. Bummer

Just have Batman radio his copter in, nuke the suburbs, and kangaroo hop his way downtown in his tumbler.