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Rather than debate the same points concerning Luke on ten different threads, let's bring it here.

Did you like him? Did you not like him? What did you like? What didn't you like? Vote in the poll.

EDIT: BTW, I know I made massive typos in the polls copy-and-pasting. You know what I meant though.

Did not like. Mark Hamill was right, it was an incorrect portrayal of Luke Skywalker. I thought that in the context of the sequel trilogy as a stand-alone it was a fine characterization. But as far as being contextualized in the grander scheme of Luke throughout the OT and the ST it was abysmal. There was nothing traumatic enough for Luke to want to murder Ben. Vader destroyed a planet, tortured his friends, and murdered his entire family and not once did he give into the urge to want to kill him in ROTJ. It was also an utter betrayal of Yoda's teachings. Yoda and Ben didn't go into hiding until the Republic, the Chancellor, the Chosen One and indeed the galaxy itself had turned against them. Luke ****ed up the galaxy and instead of attempting to fix it like a Jedi he goes to cry and ***** about it.

At the very least it would have been interesting if Luke was attempting to destroy the Force Kreia-style because he saw the vicious cycle. But this Luke was a betrayal. At least Han's death made sense and his characterization was in the realm of the character. Luke was mischaracterized.

I liked his stance on why the Jedi needed to end as they are the same reasons that ive been preaching for years; the Jedi Order was FAR from perfect and it was their hubris and rigidity that caused their spectacular demise.

I like the flashes of Force that we saw from him; casually exploding the stone hut, schooling Rey easily in the stick fight, the couple of moves he exhibited in his brief lightsaber encounter with Kylo


I wasn't a fan of the Force projection however and I hated him dying from... exhaustion??? He went out in an even worse way than his mom did!

And i was blase about his attitude in general, I get not wanting to train the kid after his failure with Kylo but he was a coward straight up and the whole waiting to die thing wasn't in Lukes character at all.

And the HUGE problem was with Luke even considering killing Ben in his sleep... Luke Skywalker would NEVER do that in a million years, not to his sisters kid especially and that bs about sensing darkness in him was hogwash; this is the guy that persevered and turned the baddest man in the galaxy good again so to say I didn't buy it is an understatement.


All in all hes was a mixed bag for me to say the least but at least Hamill brought some great acting to the role; hes improved so so much as an actor since the last time we saw him as Luke 30 odd years ago.

#NotMyLuke


I loved it, myself. I don't get people saying Lukes some perfect princess. He only just stopped himself from killing Vader.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I loved it, myself. I don't get people saying Lukes some perfect princess. He only just stopped himself from killing Vader.
It's even a plot-point in the movie that Luke is a romanticized and deified person but Luke-the-person isn't that way.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
It's even a plot-point in the movie that Luke is a romanticized and deified person but Luke-the-person isn't that way.

what does that have anything to do with the character that we saw in the OT?? Romanticized or not Luke would never try to kill his nephew especially in his sleep! This is the guy who was all alone in the thought that he could bring Vader back to the light, the same guy who had a chance to kill Vader after a straight up fight and didn't take it because he knew it was wrong, you think that all of a sudden he'd try to kill a KID IN HIS SLEEP because he "sensed" darkness in his future?? Hell No, that isn't the Luke we knew in the OT at all

I'd argue the fact Luke didn't kill Ben is because of his experiences redeeming Vader in the original trilogy.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I'd argue the fact Luke didn't kill Ben is because of his experiences redeeming Vader in the original trilogy. Experiences which you'd think would've precluded this whole "Luke has given up and thinks the Jedi need to die out" subplot entirely.

It was a small moment of weakness, he didn't actually try to do it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Did not like. Mark Hamill was right, it was an incorrect portrayal of Luke Skywalker. I thought that in the context of the sequel trilogy as a stand-alone it was a fine characterization. But as far as being contextualized in the grander scheme of Luke throughout the OT and the ST it was abysmal. There was nothing traumatic enough for Luke to want to murder Ben. Vader destroyed a planet, tortured his friends, and murdered his entire family and not once did he give into the urge to want to kill him in ROTJ. It was also an utter betrayal of Yoda's teachings. Yoda and Ben didn't go into hiding until the Republic, the Chancellor, the Chosen One and indeed the galaxy itself had turned against them. Luke ****ed up the galaxy and instead of attempting to fix it like a Jedi he goes to cry and ***** about it.

At the very least it would have been interesting if Luke was attempting to destroy the Force Kreia-style because he saw the vicious cycle. But this Luke was a betrayal. At least Han's death made sense and his characterization was in the realm of the character. Luke was mischaracterized. It was shitty writing to the extreme and an abysmal effort to explain why Luke is out of the spotlight. There are a bajillion reasons they could've kept Luke out from outshining the new characters without gutting his character entirely. Even more asinine is how a quick talk with Yoda is all it takes for Luke to see the error in his ways. Makes you wonder why Yoda didn't show up as a force ghost at ANY PREVIOUS POINT . . . like maybe PRIOR to Luke's decision to go into exile.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
Makes you wonder why Yoda didn't show up as a force ghost at ANY PREVIOUS POINT . . . like maybe PRIOR to Luke's decision to go into exile.
Luke cut himself off from the Force after the Kylo fiasco.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It was a small moment of weakness, he didn't actually try to do it.

That's not a small moment of weakness lol. He took the long walk to his hut drew his lightsaber and was mid stroke before having a small moment of strength that stopped him.

Originally posted by relentless1
I liked his stance on why the Jedi needed to end as they are the same reasons that ive been preaching for years; the Jedi Order was FAR from perfect and it was their hubris and rigidity that caused their spectacular demise. I like that stance too, but they did nowhere near enough legwork to justify Luke adopting that viewpoint and certainly didn't do enough to make it relevant to the film given that it ultimately doesn't go anywhere. Right after Rey rejects his offer, it's as if a piece of the screenplay gets cut out of the movie and Kylo is right back to first base. Really, it would've been better had Kylo been the one to articulate the feelings Luke was expressing. It would've tied strongly to Kylo's position to put aside the past as well as his idea to let the Jedi AND Sith die. Bada bing bada boom, he finally finds his calling, the little diaper boy wannabe Vader routine is gone and we have ourselves a gray force wielding antagonist that not only can be taken seriously in episode IX but has the means to be the best antagonist in the entire series.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Luke cut himself off from the Force after the Kylo fiasco. I stand corrected.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
That's not a small moment of weakness lol. He took the long walk to his hut drew his lightsaber and was mid stroke before having a small moment of strength that stopped him.
... not true. Luke walked over to look into Kylo's mind, found darkness, and then in a moment of weakness thought to kill him.

You're mixing up Kylo's version with the final version.

There's no "final version," just two different accounts. We don't need to take Luke at his word. Frankly, he's not trust worthy anymore. Even compared to Kylo.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
... not true. Luke walked over to look into Kylo's mind, found darkness, and then in a moment of weakness thought to kill him.

You're mixing up Kylo's version with the final version.

Mmm I don't think so. The look on Luke's face and how he rather quickly reaches for his lightsaber without hesitation after he looks into Kylo's mind seemed more like confirmation that he needed to act rather than a spur of the moment decision. But I've only seen it once so you may be right that I am conflating the different versions and there was some hesitation in between.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
There's no "final version," just two different accounts. We don't need to take Luke at his word. Frankly, he's not trust worthy anymore. Even compared to Kylo.
Three versions. Luke's original, Kylo's version, then the truth.

Ant is correct.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Three versions. Luke's original, Kylo's version, then the truth.

THANK you. Had this problem in the other thread. How are people misunderstanding this? The movie is very explicit in explaining this.

Then the ****ing incredible backpedaling of, "Well, um, maybe Luke's final version is bullshit! You can't trust him!"

****ing LOL.

Originally posted by relentless1
what does that have anything to do with the character that we saw in the OT?? Romanticized or not Luke would never try to kill his nephew especially in his sleep! This is the guy who was all alone in the thought that he could bring Vader back to the light, the same guy who had a chance to kill Vader after a straight up fight and didn't take it because he knew it was wrong, you think that all of a sudden he'd try to kill a KID IN HIS SLEEP because he "sensed" darkness in his future?? Hell No, that isn't the Luke we knew in the OT at all I'm honestly seeing how ot lukes character is so much different in this scenerio.

In the OT luke came a second away from killing Vader, stopped himself at the last moment and gave up. Not wanting to kill his father, especially out of fear/anger. He then gives up, tossing down his saber and basically throwing himself at Palpatines mercy, which he almost got zapped to death for. He was willing give up and take the chance of leaving palpatine in power and to sacrifice his sister, friends and the rest of the rebellion, risking all their lives on the slimmest of hopes that his father could be redeemed, and not wanting to risk going to the darkside and doing more harm than good.

With kylo, luke came a second away from killing him, stopped himself at the last moment not wanting to kill him out of fear/anger and got a stone hut dropped on him for it. He then went into exile leaving the galaxy at the mercy of snoke and kylo, out of fear that teaching more jedi would do more harm than good.

At least when he went into exile he did it solely for the altruistic reason that he legit thought it was the best thing for the galaxy, not wanting to risk training more Jedi only to have them turn to the darkside and plunge the galaxy further into darkness.

In the OT, he gave up to the emperor and risked the fate of the Galaxy partly for the selfish reason that he didn't want to kill his own father and wanted to redeem him even though he's a mass murderer with the blood of millions maybe billions on his hands.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I'm honestly seeing how ot lukes character is so much different in this scenerio.

In the OT luke came a second away from killing Vader, stopped himself at the last moment and gave up. Not wanting to kill his father, especially out of fear/anger. He then gives up, tossing down his saber and basically throwing himself at Palpatines mercy, which he almost got zapped to death for. He was willing give up and take the chance of leaving palpatine in power and to sacrifice his sister, friends and the rest of the rebellion, risking all their lives on the slimmest of hopes that his father could be redeemed, and not wanting to risk going to the darkside and doing more harm than good.

With kylo, luke came a second away from killing him, stopped himself at the last moment not wanting to kill him out of fear/anger and got a stone hut dropped on him for it. He then went into exile leaving the galaxy at the mercy of snoke and kylo, out of fear that teaching more jedi would do more harm than good.

At least when he went into exile he did it solely for the altruistic reason that he legit thought it was the best thing for the galaxy, not wanting to risk training more Jedi only to have them turn to the darkside and plunge the galaxy further into darkness.

In the OT, he gave up to the emperor and risked the fate of the Galaxy partly for the selfish reason that he didn't want to kill his own father and wanted to redeem him even though he's a mass murderer with the blood of millions maybe billions on his hands. In OT, his desire to kill Vader was fueled by the Emperor (and Vader) actively tempting him towards the dark side. If you'll recall, he initially had ZERO intention of fighting anybody. Ultimately, he overcome the Emperor and Vader's temptations and was unmoved despite being fried by force lightning. Here, we're talking about a Luke who has already completed his arc; a Luke who has already learned his lesson. The thought of killing Kylo would not have even registered in his mind given everything he had gone through in the OT. Like Rey, he would see the conflict in Kylo and would actively gesture him towards the light while being reminded of the lessons he had learned years earlier when he himself was tempted by the dark side.

This is not to say that a situation where Luke tries to murder Kylo is impossible, but the writers would need to give us A LOT MORE information than what we were given to justify such a massive departure from his established characterization.

Luke in the new movie really isn't THAT bad ... he's a far more interesting character like this.

We have to remember that the Skywalker family just has this intrinsic tendency for flirtations with the dark side, as well as pride. Don't tell me Luke wasn't feeling a sense of hubris and vanity when he cut off Vader's hand and had his father at his complete mercy. Anakin too, and even Kylo, have fits of rage that they can't control. Luke is the only one who was able to control them, which is impressive. And he showed it again. Even after having a vision of many people dying and suffering, all through Kylo, and despite his Skywalker 'darkness', he restrained himself.

I do agree that more info/context had to be given. I think Ep. 9 will give more flashbacks of Kylo actually showing signs of turning, and Luke noticing.

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
In OT, his desire to kill Vader was fueled by the Emperor (and Vader) actively tempting him towards the dark side. If you'll recall, he initially had ZERO intention of fighting anybody. Ultimately, he overcome the Emperor and Vader's temptations and was unmoved despite being fried by force lightning. Here, we're talking about a Luke who has already completed his arc; a Luke who has already learned his lesson. The thought of killing Kylo would not have even registered in his mind given everything he had gone through in the OT. Like Rey, he would see the conflict in Kylo and would actively gesture him towards the light while being reminded of the lessons he had learned years earlier when he himself was tempted by the dark side.

This is not to say that a situation where Luke tries to murder Kylo is impossible, but the writers would need to give us A LOT MORE information than what we were given to justify such a massive departure from his established characterization. Except iirc he saw no conflict in kylo. He searched kylos feelings and found it twisted by snoke beyond salvation, and even still he stopped himself.

Also weren't those feelings of conflict Rey felt just emotions planted by snoke in order to lure Rey to him? Solidified by the fact that kylo had absolutly no intention of coming back to the light. When he had the chance after snokes death he just wanted Rey to come to his side, and join him in slaughtering the rebellion and ruling the galaxy with him.

Originally posted by Raptor22
Except iirc he saw no conflict in kylo. He searched kylos feelings and found it twisted by snoke beyond salvation, and even still he stopped himself.

Also weren't those feelings of conflict Rey felt just emotions planted by snoke in order to lure Rey to him? Solidified by the fact that kylo had absolutly no intention of coming back to the light. When he had the chance after snokes death he just wanted Rey to come to his side, and join him in slaughtering the rebellion and ruling the galaxy with him. Snoke himself says there is conflict, which is why he ridicules Kylo at the beginning of the film and what he attributes to why Kylo lost his duel with Rey in TFA. Not to mention that scene where Kylo deliberately passes up on the opportunity to blast Leia from his personal tie-fighter. The entire point of him killing Han was an effort to REMOVE the conflict, but that didn't change. So there was definitely conflict and any notion that Luke wouldn't have been able to find it despite finding it at a much younger and less experienced age in one of the most powerful dark side force wielders in galactic history is highly questionable.

I loved parts of it and I despised parts of it. I liked him as a teacher, I liked his being a hermit. But I despised how weak he comes off as being, he should have been way stronger.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Three versions. Luke's original, Kylo's version, then the truth.
The idea being I don't care about Luke's opinion, and thus when I take one, I'm going with Kylo. You can be as hypothetical and philosophical as you want, but without actual evidence, you need to go on one account or the other. And I'm going with Kylo's because I like him better as a character if nothing else.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The idea being I don't care about Luke's opinion, and thus when I take one, I'm going with Kylo. You can be as hypothetical and philosophical as you want, but without actual evidence, you need to go on one account or the other. And I'm going with Kylo's because I like him better as a character if nothing else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaTQ5JEOK1g

lmfao bruh

That response doesn't even make sense. It's not an edgy statement, it's just an acknowledgement of fact. If anything, taking the word of psycho sounds way worse than taking the word of a Nazi. At least a Nazi has a bigger grasp on reality.

Definitely Originally posted by darthbane77
I loved parts of it and I despised parts of it. I liked him as a teacher, I liked his being a hermit. But I despised how weak he comes off as being, he should have been way stronger.
I agree, but I actually thought he didn't seem that weak. The way he was able to trick Kylo and toy with him in their "duel" was actually impressive

Originally posted by Dark-Kenshin
In OT, his desire to kill Vader was FUELED by the Emperor AND VADER actively tempting and prodding him towards the dark side. If you'll recall, he initially had ZERO intention of fighting anybody and was content dying on the death star . Ultimately, he overcame the Emperor and Vader's temptations and was unmoved despite being fried nearly to death by the Emperor's force lightning. Here, we're talking about a Luke who is not only not being manipulated by a master of evil, but has already completed his arc; a Luke who has already learned his lesson and fully seen the error of the dark side and that how good can be found in even people as evil as Vader. Are we really to believe that the thought of killing Kylo in cold blood would even REGISTER in his mind given every lesson he had been established as having learned in the OT? I don't think so.

No, I don't think so. Luke is not a traditional Jedi like Kenobi was or some of the prequel Jedi were. He was using force chokes, etc. Yeah, there was definitely temptation there but he likely just had a human reaction to Vader threatening to potentially turn/use Leia and lost control. Luke has always been someone who could've teetered on that line. Yes, he is a Jedi and is good but the thought crossed his mind simply because he knows how strong the Skywalker line is and knew Kylo was already being seduced by Snoke. It crossed his mind and immediately left him, as HE SAID, leaving him feeling nothing but guilt over it. Kylo caught him and thought it was something else.

It added humanity to Luke's character. Being perfectly honest? Luke simply being an absolutely good Jedi with no moments of crisis or anything like that would have been boring. Even a Master is human and can have those moments/thoughts. I thought it was a step in the right direction for his character. Luke learned his lesson about falling to the dark side and fully utilizing that dark power to control or perhaps run a galaxy that way, not necessarily doing a SINGLE thing, albeit a horrible one (killing Kylo).



I'm not going to respond much to your analogy because, as I said before, it doesn't fit much. It doesn't have much going for it, if I'm being honest. Luke's development hadn't ended there. Yes, he threw his lightsaber down and made his decision but obviously having more exposure to the dark side and likely knowing about Snoke's presence and another Sidious coming around, it may have been enough for him to think the action was necessary for a moment. Considering he abandoned another potential order and training more Jedi to seclude himself? It makes perfect sense. He has been someone who has been put to this test most of his life and it inspired a moment in him. It gives his character a lack of perfection that is necessary to not have him be absurdly boring (Early Comic Superman levels of being dandy and good) and inspires conflict.

Like I said, the thought of taking Kylo out crossing his mind is not an implication he would simply walk down the path of the dark side, which I think is the biggest problem with your criticism. He denounced the dark side with Sidious when was young, yes. However, the quick thought of murdering Kylo is not him walking down that path. At that point, it was a human being wanting to commit to something practical and having a lapse in judgment that took no moral conditions into account. There's no evidence to suggest he would have killed Kylo and then it would've changed his iris' yellow and he'd start shooting force lighting everywhere.


If it was more than just a passing thought that immediately inspired nothing but guilt in Luke? I'd agree it would need more. It wasn't so it isn't against the characterization at all. Luke has never, ever been the picture-perfect Jedi. He's always been, how to put this, closer to "grey" than "blue." He is a fantastic Jedi and is generally an outstandingly moral individual, as we've seen, but he had a moment and it added a great deal of humanity to his character. I loved it.

Also, it did look like he had not communicated with Yoda in a very,
very long time. Just thought I'd add that.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I'm honestly seeing how ot lukes character is so much different in this scenerio.

In the OT luke came a second away from killing Vader, stopped himself at the last moment and gave up. Not wanting to kill his father, especially out of fear/anger. He then gives up, tossing down his saber and basically throwing himself at Palpatines mercy, which he almost got zapped to death for. He was willing give up and take the chance of leaving palpatine in power and to sacrifice his sister, friends and the rest of the rebellion, risking all their lives on the slimmest of hopes that his father could be redeemed, and not wanting to risk going to the darkside and doing more harm than good.

With kylo, luke came a second away from killing him, stopped himself at the last moment not wanting to kill him out of fear/anger and got a stone hut dropped on him for it. He then went into exile leaving the galaxy at the mercy of snoke and kylo, out of fear that teaching more jedi would do more harm than good.

At least when he went into exile he did it solely for the altruistic reason that he legit thought it was the best thing for the galaxy, not wanting to risk training more Jedi only to have them turn to the darkside and plunge the galaxy further into darkness.

In the OT, he gave up to the emperor and risked the fate of the Galaxy partly for the selfish reason that he didn't want to kill his own father and wanted to redeem him even though he's a mass murderer with the blood of millions maybe billions on his hands.

your analogy is missing one crucial element:

Luke didn't "give up" to the Emperor; Luke had absolutely no way of knowing about Force lightning so him throwing his lightsaber in defiance of some old man wasn't him committing death by Sith, he genuinely didn't know that Palpatine had any offensive capabilities.

Considering what Snoke does in the movie, I find it entirely possible that what Luke sensed in Ben was a trick Snoke had created like he did with Rey.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Considering what Snoke does in the movie, I find it entirely possible that what Luke sensed in Ben was a trick Snoke had created like he did with Rey.

I thought about that as well but thought it could be a stretch. If Snoke has that ability, he could easily use it to sow discord amongst the Jedi. However, it seemed more likely that Luke's strength in the force that allowed him to see the path Kylo would go down and then Luke just had a momentary lapse of judgment which created a disastrous series of events.

Originally posted by The Lost

Then the ****ing incredible backpedaling of, "Well, um, maybe Luke's final version is bullshit! You can't trust him!"

****ing LOL.

Well, Luke certainly has an opinion on Luke Skywalker. haermm

i0biqMZrxJ0

Originally posted by LordOfTheLight


Are you agreeing with what I said or do you think that I've contradicted myself or something? If it's the latter, I'd like to know how.


Originally posted by Tzeentch
Well, Mark certainly has an opinion on Luke Skywalker. haermm


Fixed that for you.

$0.15 have been deposited into your Disney account.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
$0.15 have been deposited into your Disney account.

Boring. I'm disappointed, Blax. Expected something a little less cookie-cutter from you.

How much more effort would you like in response to a quote edit? I'm not made out of effort you know. Effort doesn't just grow on trees.

It would probably depend on the quote edit. I don't think the statement I was making with mine was too much to handle.

Come on, Blax! Get your shit together!

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That response doesn't even make sense. It's not an edgy statement, it's just an acknowledgement of fact. If anything, taking the word of psycho sounds way worse than taking the word of a Nazi. At least a Nazi has a bigger grasp on reality.
No, it's just you being a retard because you forgot about an entire sequence.

Luke tells Rey "his truth."

Kylo tells Rey "his truth."

Then after being held at lightsaber-point by Luke, Luke tells Rey "the truth."

I honestly don't even think you watched the movie.

Originally posted by The Lost
It would probably depend on the quote edit. I don't think the statement I was making with mine was too much to handle.

Come on, Blax! Get your shit together! Then this the level of shitpost you're getting buddy. Your memes are weak old man.

Although it sucks, I don't mind that we don't see Luke legit fight in a lightsaber duel. Remember, Lucas said about the OT that Yoda and Sidious don't have lightsabers because they're "beyond" that. I think this trilogy sorta mirrors the OT in this regard: Luke and Snoke are "beyond" the need to use lightsabers, since they're that powerful with the force.

I'm fine with Luke not being a badass warrior, personally. One of the running themes of his character in the movie is that people wanted his help but he didn't want to help in the way that they wanted. Explicitly, Rey wanted him to take her lightsaber, hop on the Falcon and **** shit up like the good old days, but Luke isn't that person anymore.

The hologram shit was a decent way to show him ending his exile and helping the galaxy again without fighting. Confronting Kylo as an illusion was also a good metaphor for showing Kylo that his problems were spiritual and could never be defeated with violence.

There were a slew of issues with Luke's representation in the series, but combat Feats are not something I would be worried about.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
I'm fine with Luke not being a badass warrior, personally. One of the running themes of his character in the movie is that people wanted his help but he didn't want to help in the way that they wanted. Explicitly, Rey wanted him to take her lightsaber, hop on the Falcon and **** shit up like the good old days, but Luke isn't that person anymore.

The hologram shit was a decent way to show him ending his exile and helping the galaxy again without fighting. Confronting Kylo as an illusion was also a good metaphor for showing Kylo that his problems were spiritual and could never be defeated with violence.

There were a slew of issues with Luke's representation in the series, but combat Feats are not something I would be worried about.

Problem though is now...who the frack is gonna train Rey? I mean she didn't really get any training at all in both movies, now she has no master to help her in learning stuff. Luke at least in the OT had brief moments with Ben and Yoda to help get a grasp of what he has.

Unless Kylo is gonna end up teaching her in some way while still being the enemy.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Problem though is now...who the frack is gonna train Rey? I mean she didn't really get any training at all in both movies, now she has no master to help her in learning stuff. Luke at least in the OT had brief moments with Ben and Yoda to help get a grasp of what he has.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_spirit

Originally posted by samappo
Although it sucks, I don't mind that we don't see Luke legit fight in a lightsaber duel. Remember, Lucas said about the OT that Yoda and Sidious don't have lightsabers because they're "beyond" that. I think this trilogy sorta mirrors the OT in this regard: Luke and Snoke are "beyond" the need to use lightsabers, since they're that powerful with the force. I'm not really sure that Luke was 'beyond' lightsabers, though -- he was going to murder Ben with one, after all. I just think that Luke renounced lightsabers/combat when he renounced the Jedi Order... They were simply part of something he had come to abhor.

That's why his immediate inclination was to throw his father's saber away when Rey handed it to him. /shrug

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_spirit

Force spirits never really trained anyone, Ben and Yoda certainly didn't with Luke, Ben just kinda appeared and chatted with Luke at best.

Though I guess it's possible, we'll see.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Problem though is now...who the frack is gonna train Rey?

Nobody, she doesn't need a trainer. ****ing around on a desert her whole life has already given her the training to defeat multiple assailants alone and that was before the plot pushed a button amd gave her access to the force. With it she can duel Kylo Ren the third strongest force user in the galaxy and 1v2 warriors who have been training intensively in close-combat every day of their lives.

Why would she possibly need a teacher? Whats left to teach her?

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Nobody, she doesn't need a trainer. ****ing around on a desert her whole life has already given her the training to defeat multiple assailants alone and that was before the plot pushed a button amd gave her access to the force. With it she can duel Kylo Ren the third strongest force user in the galaxy and 1v2 warriors who have been training intensively in close-combat every day of their lives.

Why would she possibly need a teacher? Whats left to teach her?

Hmm a fine(if not a silly) point, I guess we'll see.

It would seem some people don't understand basic narrative structure and believe Luke's final word is incorrect. You cannot help these "enthusiasts"

I will say I disagree with him wanting to Ren. Doesn't fit at all with what we've known him to be in the past.

I did, however, enjoy his overall portrayal as being a stubborn old man waiting to die alone on an island. His reasons for why the jedi should die were justified.

Originally posted by Kurk
I will say I disagree with him wanting to Ren. Doesn't fit at all with what we've known him to be in the past.

I did, however, enjoy his overall portrayal as being a stubborn old man waiting to die alone on an island. His reasons for why the jedi should die were justified.

I dislike Yoda's high and mighty act after the fact. Especially after Luke plainly explained Yoda's failure.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
No, it's just you being a retard because you forgot about an entire sequence.

Luke tells Rey "his truth."

Kylo tells Rey "his truth."

Then after being held at lightsaber-point by Luke, Luke tells Rey "the truth."

I honestly don't even think you watched the movie.

The third account still comes from Luke, and Rey pointing a lightsaber at him doesn't suddenly make him tell the truth. I don't believe Luke. Further accounts from him doesn't make me suddenly believe him.

Luke isn't real. From a story-telling perspective its obviously the truth. You really think Lukes ghost is going to pop up in 9 and go "Haha I lied twice! Gotcha suckers!"

It wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

Originally posted by Tzeentch
Well, Luke certainly has an opinion on Luke Skywalker. haermm

i0biqMZrxJ0

What a great and funny guy.