Top 5 Red lightsaber wielders

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xPRIMEx

xPRIMEx
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Sheev
Yoda didnt disarm Sidious. wink

The list is definitely canon. Matt Martin acknowledged it.

But there's more that goes into battles then just saber skill. Even if Maul was a better duelist, Dooku would obviously smoke him in an actual fight. Same with Vader vs. Sidious.

xPRIMEx

Galan007
thumb up

Darth Thor
No one batting an eye over Ventress being placed above Kylo Ren.

Shes just lucky General Krells Sabers hadnt bled red yet.

Sheev
Kylo never displayed saber skills above Ventress level IMO.

Darthadi
Kylo Ren wasn't yet created when the list was made iirc

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Darthadi
Kylo Ren wasn't yet created when the list was made iirc You might be right. Or he didn't have many feats yet.

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Sheev
Kylo never displayed saber skills above Ventress level IMO.


Im good with that thumb up



Originally posted by Darthadi
Kylo Ren wasn't yet created when the list was made iirc


Yes he was. That Guide was one of the run ups to TFA.

Galan007
Originally posted by Darthadi
Kylo Ren wasn't yet created when the list was made iirc He was.

The guide was released in 2016, shortly after TFA. In fact, Kylo was featured on the same splash page as the top 5 list:
https://i.imgur.com/igTfMZV.jpg

xPRIMEx
The list was made after TFA, when his only feat was losing to Rey so not really a surprise

xPRIMEx
It might have even been made before, but was updated after. Still before TLJ and ROS

juggernaut74
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
It might have even been made before, but was updated after. Still before TLJ and ROS When was it updated?

xPRIMEx
In 2016 before TLJ I think

Galan007
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
It might have even been made before, but was updated after. Still before TLJ and ROS If a new list were made now, I'd be surprised if Kylo didn't make the top 3.

Not because he's displayed immense skill in the films/comics, but because of some of the wank he's gotten on SW.com and the VDs. Clearly they have a very high opinion of Kylo's abilities.

...Not that it's entirely undeserved. By all accounts, Kylo *should* be a high-end swordsman, given that he was trained by Luke(whose skill was already equal to Vader's as of RotJ) for over a decade, and possesses Skywalker-level potential.

juggernaut74
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
In 2016 before TLJ I think Was the list the same?

Galan007
^ There's no list in the updated version.

xPRIMEx
Originally posted by Galan007
If a new list were made now, I'd be surprised if Kylo didn't make the top 3.

Not because he's displayed immense skill in the films/comics, but because of some of the wank he's gotten on SW.com and the VDs. Clearly they have a very high opinion of Kylo's abilities.

...Not that it's entirely undeserved. By all accounts, Kylo *should* be a high-end swordsman, given that he was trained by Luke(whose skill was already equal to Vader's as of RotJ) for over a decade, and possesses Skywalker-level potential.
thumb up
What wank are you referring to? Just out of curiosity wink

Galan007
Most notably, the quote from SW.com, which states he is one of the most powerful combatants in the history of the mythos:

As well as this excerpt from the VD, which likens his saber skill to that of Vader and Luke:
https://i.imgur.com/UEk3eT6.jpg


And there are a number of other quotes that reference his ridiculous potential.

xPRIMEx

Darth Thor
History of SW mythos - sounds more like an opinion peace than official databank or fact file.

relentless1
no way Vader is a better duelist than Sidious I don't care what BS Disney makes up, they've already ****ed up Star Wars mainline stuff

Darth Thor
Originally posted by relentless1
no way Vader is a better duelist than Sidious I don't care what BS Disney makes up, they've already ****ed up Star Wars mainline stuff


Apparently Disney reckons Vader lost no potential at all.

So the more appropriate question is why Vader isnt on the level of The Son.

Galan007
Put Vader back on a universal Force nexus(ie. Mortis), and he may very well be. wink

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Galan007
Put Vader back on a universal Force nexus(ie. Mortis), and he may very well be. wink


But The Son was on the same Nexus erm

Scizard
Maul being above Dooku is worse.

xPRIMEx

Galan007
Originally posted by Darth Thor
But The Son was on the same Nexus erm Because The Son ain't the Chosen One. stick out tongue

It's not like Anakin would've had a shot at containing The Son/Daughter off of Mortis. Even The Father stated that he could *only* control his children while on Mortis: "It is only here that I can control them."

Darth Thor
Originally posted by Galan007
Because The Son ain't the Chosen One. stick out tongue

It's not like Anakin would've had a shot at containing The Son/Daughter off of Mortis. Even The Father stated that he could *only* control his children while on Mortis: "It is only here that I can control them."


Okay... But that still shows he was operating at Father level.

Galan007
On Mortis, yes.

Just saying that is literally the *only* place it could have happened. Point being: Vader not ascending to the level of The Son in the mortal realm certainly isn't a knock against his power/potential, given that not even The Father himself could control his children in the mortal realm.

Darth Thor
I get that. I wouldnt expect him to overpower both the Son and Daughter off Mortis, given like you said, even the Father couldnt.

But my original question was Why is he not on the level of The Son (the level The Son would be off Mortis)?

Remember he wasnt even consistent in his abilities on Mortis, so it wasnt simply about location. It was about full control and mastery over his powers. Something Vader clearly had a much better grasp over than Anakin.

Galan007
Originally posted by Darth Thor
But my original question was Why is he not on the level of The Son (the level The Son would be off Mortis)?

Remember he wasnt even consistent in his abilities on Mortis, so it wasnt simply about location. It was about full control and mastery over his powers. Something Vader clearly had a much better grasp over than Anakin. Answer to both: because Vader did not have a universal Force nexus to tap into. As mentioned, it seems like attaining that level of power was *only* possible on Mortis(even for The Father.)

Moreover, we know the Son and Daughter were still powerful enough in the mortal realm to rip the fabric of the universe itself during their conflicts -- something NO Jedi/Sith battle has ever come remotely close to doing. Not even 'omni-Sith' Palpatine vs. 'omni-Jedi' Rey threatened reality in such a way.

Tbh, I don't know if it would have even been possible for Anakin to realize his full potential, and ascend to the level of The Ones, away from Mortis. /shrug

juggernaut74
Originally posted by Scizard
Maul being above Dooku is worse. I don't see it either but a canon source also says Dooku was the 2nd best duelist after Yoda in the entire Jedi Order.

Or so I'm told but I can't find the Fact File that says it.

Sheev
Maul held his own against Sidious for a bit in sabers once he got pissed, so I could see him being above Dooku.

But again- Dooku would smoke him in an all out battle.

xPRIMEx
I just think Dooku trashed AOTC obi Wan pretty quickly. Maul had a harder time against a weaker obi Wan, in my opinion

juggernaut74
Are you talking about TPM fight? Wouldn't Maul have been weaker also?

xPRIMEx
Yeah I guess

Sheev
Originally posted by xPRIMEx
I just think Dooku trashed AOTC obi Wan pretty quickly. Maul had a harder time against a weaker obi Wan, in my opinion To be fair, TPM is one of the weakest versions of canon Maul, and Kenobi went full rage mode which probably surprised Maul considering he'd seen nothing like that from Kenobi up to that point.

The top5 list is surely referring to the characters in the prime of their technical skill, in which case I could see peak Maul being slightly above Dooku in sabers based on his brief clash with Sidious.

But like I keep saying- that doesnt mean he'd beat Dooku in a allout fight, just like Vader wouldn't beat Sidious in an allout fight.

xPRIMEx
thumb up

Rockydonovang
Is there a reason we're taking this list more seriously than the one that has aotc kenobi as more powerful than dookie

xPRIMEx
What list is that

Scizard
Originally posted by Sheev
To be fair, TPM is one of the weakest versions of canon Maul, and Kenobi went full rage mode which probably surprised Maul considering he'd seen nothing like that from Kenobi up to that point.

The top5 list is surely referring to the characters in the prime of their technical skill, in which case I could see peak Maul being slightly above Dooku in sabers based on his brief clash with Sidious.

But like I keep saying- that doesnt mean he'd beat Dooku in a allout fight, just like Vader wouldn't beat Sidious in an allout fight.

How can you say that when Dooku is able to dance around Anakin and Kenobi through his overall skill? I don't see Maul being able to pull that off.

juggernaut74
I'm not sure Maul can replicate that.

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