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out of these three, who's the most impressive speed wise against formidable opponents

https://i.postimg.cc/SXkK8syn/batman-vs-kgbeast-rebirth-5.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/8FZT6mKY/4018664.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/mcJ6JctD/Iron-Fist-Vol-5-1-Textless.jpg

Batman has his Zoom fight, so....

One one of them caught a bullet and threw it back at the attacker.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman has his Zoom fight, so....


Danny fought a speedster early in Power Man and Iron Fist.

And I don't credit that outlier stuff any more then I do Zoom.


The fact Batman himself claimed he'd lose to Cassandra Cain is a more credible representation of his capabilities. And she has similar "playing chicken with bullets" feats.

Originally posted by cdtm
Danny fought a speedster early in Power Man and Iron Fist.

And I don't credit that outlier stuff any more then I do Zoom.


The fact Batman himself claimed he'd lose to Cassandra Cain is a more credible representation of his capabilities. And she has similar "playing chicken with bullets" feats.

OP has asked for the most impressive speed feat.

So that would be Zoom then.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP has asked for the most impressive speed feat.

So that would be Zoom then.

"the most impressive speed wise against formidable opponents"

So... yeah, Zoom is probably the best example.


And Logan would be #2 with his performance against the likes of Riptide, Count Nefaria (who remembered about his speed), Living Lightning, Speed Demon and so on.


Danny somewhere at #4397. Maybe one day Marvel will let him fight some d-list speedster... like Whizzer.


Maybe.

Zoom kicked his butt though.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
"the most impressive speed wise against formidable opponents"

So... yeah, Zoom is probably the best example.


And Logan would be #2 with his performance against the likes of Riptide, Count Nefaria (who remembered about his speed), Living Lightning, Speed Demon and so on.


Danny somewhere at #4397. Maybe one day Marvel will let him fight some d-list speedster... like Whizzer.


Maybe.

He outreacted Spidey who eats speedsters for lunch.

Originally posted by cdtm
Zoom kicked his butt though.

Batman was only trying to buy time, which he did.

Zoom was trying to kill him, which he didn't.

Moreover, it's still more impressive as it's Zoom, the guy who speed blitzes Flashes for fun.

Originally posted by cdtm
He outreacted Spidey who eats speedsters for lunch.

So did the half of the Marvel Universe, including Logan.

And ABC logic really doesn't apply here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP has asked for the most impressive speed feat.

So that would be Zoom then.

That's a PIS fight. Not a scalable fight. As is most of Batman's non-Gotham showings.

Zoom was fast enough to casually phase through his punches while standing still in some panels while also slow enough to get hit by others in other panels.


Must be Batman mixing in 60 mph street tier punches and Faster than time punches to keep Zoom guessing.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Batman was only trying to buy time, which he did.

Zoom was trying to kill him, which he didn't.

Moreover, it's still more impressive as it's Zoom, the guy who speed blitzes Flashes for fun.


So he blitz's a guy Slade slaps around on a regular basis.

Has Danny fought any speedster in his career?

Serious question.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
That's a PIS fight. Not a scalable fight. As is most of Batman's non-Gotham showings.

Zoom was fast enough to casually phase through his punches while standing still in some panels while also slow enough to get hit by others in other panels.


Must be Batman mixing in 60 mph street tier punches and Faster than time punches to keep Zoom guessing.

Pretty much.



Scaling Batman by the Zoom fights ignores his speed level is well established as below Slade Wilson's, who while enhanced is certainly no Flash.


Unless you want to make the argument Slade is even faster then Zoom, which is why this sort of scaling is stupid.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Has Danny fought any speedster in his career?

Serious question.
Luke Cage obviously

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Luke Cage obviously



Blacker than Black Racer... so must be faster, too

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Has Danny fought any speedster in his career?

Serious question.


You don't remember Power Man and Iron Fist? The speedster that aged into an old man as the story went on?

Originally posted by cdtm
You don't remember Power Man and Iron Fist? The speedster that aged into an old man as the story went on?

Name?

Originally posted by cdtm
Pretty much.



Scaling Batman by the Zoom fights ignores his speed level is well established as below Slade Wilson's, who while enhanced is certainly no Flash.


Unless you want to make the argument Slade is even faster then Zoom, which is why this sort of scaling is stupid.

Bats has had plenty of great fights against Slade.


Superman and Martial Manhunter couldn't even track Batman's movements.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
That's a PIS fight. Not a scalable fight. As is most of Batman's non-Gotham showings.

Zoom was fast enough to casually phase through his punches while standing still in some panels while also slow enough to get hit by others in other panels.


Must be Batman mixing in 60 mph street tier punches and Faster than time punches to keep Zoom guessing.

That's not what the OP asks for.

It asks for most impressive combat speed feats against formidable opponents.

So going up against and surviving against one of the top speedsters in DC, who humiliates other speedsters, is the most impressive. In fact, you dismissing it as PIS showcases how impressive it is - because even in the realm of comic book fights, it's so out there that you want to ignore it.

Thunderbolt.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Name?



Bats has had plenty of great fights against Slade.


Superman and Martial Manhunter couldn't even track Batman's movements.


Bats has good fights against Slade via planning or sucker punch's. His best head to head fights were probably under Priest's pen, and it took every dirty trick in the book and special laser power gauntlets to level the playing field.


Even in his own Bat book, he's has to drug him and set up traps.

Originally posted by cdtm
Thunderbolt.

Also known as William... Carver Nice. True z-lister


Like I said, maybe Marvel will let IF fight Whizzer one day.

Old, dying Whizzer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's not what the OP asks for.

It asks for most impressive combat speed feats against formidable opponents.

So going up against and surviving against one of the top speedsters in DC, who humiliates other speedsters, is the most impressive. In fact, you dismissing it as PIS showcases how impressive it is - because even in the realm of comic book fights, it's so out there that you want to ignore it.

And i'm arguing that hitting Zoom while also being shown as way too slow to hit Zoom in the same fight is not a combat speed feat.

You could just as easily argue Zoom was having a typical speedster mental disorder (called CIS for everyone else.)

How fast were batman's punches moving? How fast was Zoom's reaction times during the moments he dodged vs the moments he got hit? We don't know.

Therefore better to determine combat speed feats against intimate objects, like bullets and lazers. Or in situations where one of the opponent's speed is explicitly stated.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
And i'm arguing that hitting Zoom while also being shown as way too slow to hit Zoom in the same fight is not a combat speed feat.

You could just as easily argue Zoom was having a typical speedster mental disorder (called CIS for everyone else.)

How fast were batman's punches moving? How fast was Zoom's reaction times during the moments he dodged vs the moments he got hit? We don't know.

Therefore better to determine combat speed feats against intimate objects, like bullets and lazers. Or in situations where one of the opponent's speed is explicitly stated.

Zoom was specifically out to kill/KO him. He was mad as hell. So no, I don't think CIS was in play (plus, he's a villain so not holding back).

It shows that he was about the same speed as a bloodlusted Zoom. Just like two human boxers can hit each other whilst getting hit in turn.

Saying CIS is in play is basically saying Zoom saw Batman's fist coming towards him, and he willingly allowed himself to get hit/stabbed. Zoom, being one of the top geniuses in the 25th Century (let alone the 21st) isn't that stupid.

It is as you say - PIS. Which makes it the most impressive.

Bats did distract him by stabbing his foot with a batarang, if I recall correctly.

The showing is still insane, though.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Bats did distract him by stabbing his foot with a batarang, if I recall correctly.

The showing is still insane, though.

And the fact he was able to do so in the first place is pretty PIS and insane. Hence, impressive.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom was specifically out to kill/KO him. He was mad as hell. So no, I don't think CIS was in play (plus, he's a villain so not holding back).

It shows that he was about the same speed as a bloodlusted Zoom. Just like two human boxers can hit each other whilst getting hit in turn.

Saying CIS is in play is basically saying Zoom saw Batman's fist coming towards him, and he willingly allowed himself to get hit/stabbed. Zoom, being one of the top geniuses in the 25th Century (let alone the 21st) isn't that stupid.

It is as you say - PIS. Which makes it the most impressive.

That entire fight was stupidity

during the Batman/Flash Button crossover, Batman stabs Thawne in the foot while he was standing still, claimed that Speedsters cant phase their feet while standing still or else they will fall through the floor, yet months before a building exploded while Barry was phasing, standing completely still and let the entire blast go through him, including his feet or else his feet would have been incinerated.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom was specifically out to kill/KO him. He was mad as hell. So no, I don't think CIS was in play (plus, he's a villain so not holding back).

It shows that he was about the same speed as a bloodlusted Zoom. Just like two human boxers can hit each other whilst getting hit in turn.

Saying CIS is in play is basically saying Zoom saw Batman's fist coming towards him, and he willingly allowed himself to get hit/stabbed. Zoom, being one of the top geniuses in the 25th Century (let alone the 21st) isn't that stupid.

It is as you say - PIS. Which makes it the most impressive.


Yes it is exactly CIS because every speedster gets hit by things in comics that they have no business being hit by. We talk about this all the time about why its turned off in a forum fight. "X character would literally have to be retarded to get hit by this attack that he is Y multiples faster than."

Just as we would argue that we would have to be retarded to be hit by some deadly slug speed attack in real life that we see coming.

We know Zoom isnt selectively retarded in a forum fight. But he can be in a comic. Afterall he is only as smart as his writer.

No, it wasnt a boxer vs boxer situation. Ali had a maybe 20% reaction time advantage over opponents he clowned and never phased through attacks casually.

Unless you are arguing that Batman held back his speed on purpose for some blows and sped them up by many thousands or millions of times for others. If he was fast enough to hit Zoom consistently (just like one boxer vs another) there would have been no need for him to stall for time (which he was doing because he knew he couldn't beat Zoom). If his reaction time was actually within spitting distance of Zoom's (the same way two boxers are) then he would have simply beaten Zoom since he had comparable reflexes combined with a massive skill advantage. Afterall Zoom is no fighter whereas Batmam is best in class at fighting.

So the setup was Zoom was out to kill Batman. Batman knew he couldn't beat Zoom because he is a super fast meta human. So he tries to stall for time...by showing that he is fast enough to hit Zoom. Who therefore must not be all that fast or that much of a threat that stalling for time is required, seeing as Batman is a way better fighter and in the same realm of speed.

The fight tried to show off Zoom's massive speed advantage while showing off batman's resourcefulness and skill
and juxtaposed the two poorly. But poor writing is nothing new in comics. Writers dont care about accurate portrayals they care about giving words to move along colorful pictures.

Ben and Piotr must be planet busters for going toe to toe with the likes of Gladiator and WWH going by this logic.

In the end CIS is just a subset of PIS. And Villains can hold back while wanting to kill. Afterall they are villains. They dont care about killing. So that's not an argument

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yes it is exactly CIS because every speedster gets hit by things in comics that they have no business being hit by. We talk about this all the time about why its turned off in a forum fight. "X character would literally have to be retarded to get hit by this attack that he is Y multiples faster than."

Just as we would argue that we would have to be retarded to be hit by some deadly slug speed attack in real life that we see coming.

We know Zoom isnt selectively retarded in a forum fight. But he can be in a comic. Afterall he is only as smart as his writer.

No, it wasnt a boxer vs boxer situation. Ali had a maybe 20% reaction time advantage over opponents he clowned and never phased through attacks casually.

Unless you are arguing that Batman held back his speed on purpose for some blows and sped them up by many thousands or millions of times for others. If he was fast enough to hit Zoom consistently (just like one boxer vs another) there would have been no need for him to stall for time (which he was doing because he knew he couldn't beat Zoom). If his reaction time was actually within spitting distance of Zoom's (the same way two boxers are) then he would have simply beaten Zoom since he had comparable reflexes combined with a massive skill advantage. Afterall Zoom is no fighter whereas Batmam is best in class at fighting.

So the setup was Zoom was out to kill Batman. Batman knew he couldn't beat Zoom because he is a super fast meta human. So he tries to stall for time...by showing that he is fast enough to hit Zoom. Who therefore must not be all that fast or that much of a threat that stalling for time is required, seeing as Batman is a way better fighter and in the same realm of speed.

The fight tried to show off Zoom's massive speed advantage while showing off batman's resourcefulness and skill
and juxtaposed the two poorly. But poor writing is nothing new in comics. Writers dont care about accurate portrayals they care about giving words to move along colorful pictures.

Ben and Piotr must be planet busters for going toe to toe with the likes of Gladiator and WWH going by this logic.

In the end CIS is just a subset of PIS. And Villains can hold back while wanting to kill. Afterall they are villains. They dont care about killing. So that's not an argument

Agreed, but my point was that out of the three characters in the thread, Bats has a showing so out there we have to ignore it. Which makes him the winner. It's so OTT ridiculous, like Firelord and Spidey.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Firelord and Spidey.

It gets mentioned a lot (even comics make fun of it), but truth is... Puny Parker needed 3 issues to wear him down... and Firelord really is not that uber in the first place.

Hopefully they retcon it one day that his black suit had some symbiote still present, and it was Knull who did it lol.

Vs. IG Thanos:

https://media.comicbook.com/uploads1/2015/02/spider-man-infinity-gauntlet-122451.jpg