Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Both at best in canon only who will win in the following:-

1. Light saber duel only
2. Force powers and abilities only
3. Combo of the above in a fight

Dooku in all three

1. Dooku
2. Kylo Ren
3. Dooku

1 & 3 to Dooku. Not sure on 2. Kylo obviously has the Skywalker raw power and potential. But hes inconsistent as fak.

Dooku sweeps.

Force would be the closest, but Dooku's lightning would be too much for Kylo

Dooku takes all esp since I don't think Kylo has shown any ability to deflect Force Lightning in canon

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Dooku takes all esp since I don't think Kylo has shown any ability to deflect Force Lightning in canon


If Rey can (with a Saber), I think its almost a given that Kylo can.

Although I get she could shoot FL as well which apparently he could not.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
If Rey can (with a Saber), I think its almost a given that Kylo can.

Although I get she could shoot FL as well which apparently he could not.

Did you just compare Rey with the power and skills of all the Jedi to base Kylo Ren?

Dooku in all except in the force

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Did you just compare Rey with the power and skills of all the Jedi to base Kylo Ren?


Lol sorry yeah I forgot about that tiny element.

Still if even AOTC Kenobi can block lightning, why would we assume Kylo Ren cant?

Pretty sure Kylo used tutaminis in TFA novel against Rey's lightsaber, so I wouldn't be surprised if he could block it with that as well.

Who has the best tk feat?

Dooku casually lifting a dozen or so obelisks or Kylo collapsing those ancient statues?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Who has the best tk feat?

Dooku casually lifting a dozen or so obelisks or Kylo collapsing those ancient statues?


Kylos is better. He has that Skywalker raw power/potential. But Dookus a lot more consistent. In fact Kylo was struggling to hold Voe just moments before his big statue collapsing feat.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Lol sorry yeah I forgot about that tiny element.

Still if even AOTC Kenobi can block lightning, why would we assume Kylo Ren cant?

Because it requires being taught to be frank we don't even know if Luke could deflect it, and the only time we saw him face lightning against Snoke he got rocked by it.

If Rey knows how to block it, Kylo would know too.
Rey being amped is irrelevant. The amp increased her power, not her knowledge.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
and the only time we saw him face lightning against Snoke he got rocked by it.

Well that aint really fair because he didnt have his lightsaber ignited.

As for Luke he collected masses of knowledge (in canon), and carried on communing with the Force Ghosts of Obi-Wan, Anakin and Yoda. So he would definitely know how to do that.

However Kylo may not know because he left Luke as a Padawan. And who knows if Snoke taught him.

But I have to believe someone who has the level of force mastery it takes to freeze a blaster bolt would be able to deflect lightning with the use of his Saber.

Originally posted by Darthadi
If Rey knows how to block it, Kylo would know too.
Rey being amped is irrelevant. The amp increased her power, not her knowledge.

"I am all the Jedi" does not mean just power. She also had the knowledge to channel that power.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well that aint really fair because he didnt have his lightsaber ignited.

As for Luke he collected masses of knowledge (in canon), and carried on communing with the Force Ghosts of Obi-Wan, Anakin and Yoda. So he would definitely know how to do that.

However Kylo may not know because he left Luke as a Padawan. And who knows if Snoke taught him.

But I have to believe someone who has the level of force mastery it takes to freeze a blaster bolt would be able to deflect lightning with the use of his Saber.

Luke I'd give the benefit of the doubt, but what I'm saying is its an advanced technique. People don't default knowing it just because they are powerful.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Luke I'd give the benefit of the doubt, but what I'm saying is its an advanced technique. People don't default knowing it just because they are powerful.


I get that, but do you not think freezing a blaster bolt also seems like a pretty advanced technique? Like beyond the level of mastery AOTC Obi-Wan has.

Thats why id give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I get that, but do you not think freezing a blaster bolt also seems like a pretty advanced technique? Like beyond the level of mastery AOTC Obi-Wan has.

Thats why id give him the benefit of the doubt on that.


Not really how that works. They are different techniques. One is an application of Force Stasis (something Cal Kestis could do as a Padawan), one is an advanced saber/force technique.

Doesn't seem like an advanced technique to me. Just put your lightsaber up and you're good.

Originally posted by Scizard
Doesn't seem like an advanced technique to me. Just put your lightsaber up and you're good.

Which is why Savage Opress couldn't just put his saber up. Come on now.

Yeah lightning can be in wide bursts and shot separately from both hands. So it has to be focused through the force to the Saber.


Originally posted by Lord Stark
Not really how that works. They are different techniques. One is an application of Force Stasis (something Cal Kestis could do as a Padawan), one is an advanced saber/force technique.


Cal does that?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Which is why Savage Opress couldn't just put his saber up. Come on now.

Savage is a beast who defies all the rules. But I would guess he's just too slow. If there was some sort of advanced technique other than not being a spaz don't you think Assaj would've taken Savage when he was off on a mission and trained him to block it, kinda essential if you want to take down Dooku.

Why would blocking Force Lightning be taught in Jedi training?

If the Sith were thought gone I don't see the need.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Why would blocking Force Lightning be taught in Jedi training?

If the Sith were thought gone I don't see the need.


They knew the Sith were around since TPM.


Originally posted by Scizard
Savage is a beast who defies all the rules. But I would guess he's just too slow. If there was some sort of advanced technique other than not being a spaz don't you think Assaj would've taken Savage when he was off on a mission and trained him to block it, kinda essential if you want to take down Dooku.


Oh forgot Ventress can also block it. So yeah seems kinda standard tbh.

Savage had hardly any training whatsoever. His power mostly came from the enhancement Mother Talzin gave him, and his fighting technique from being the best of a warrior clan.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Why would blocking Force Lightning be taught in Jedi training?

If the Sith were thought gone I don't see the need.

There always could be Dark Jedi who could possibly use it?

..Then again I don't think we've seen any other than Sith Lords use it in Canon, so...fair point. But perhaps just something taught as a precaution?

Perhaps they didnt teach it until post TPM when they discovered the Sith were back.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Perhaps they didnt teach it until post TPM when they discovered the Sith were back.

Would make sense yeah.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Perhaps they didnt teach it until post TPM when they discovered the Sith were back. The implication in Dooku: Jedi Lost is that the Jedi didn't really teach their students much at all about the Sith -- it was a taboo subject. For example, when Dooku was a Jedi, he had to break into the Jedi vaults(where ancient Sith holocrons/texts were kept) to start learning anything of value about the esoteric ways of the dark side. So in the pre-PT era, I doubt learning how to block FL would have been part of the students' essential learning.

But that could have very well changed after the events of TPM.

I guess it is possible then Kylo didnt know. He hadnt finished his training under Luke, and Snoke likely wouldnt have taught Kylo how to defend himself against Snoke.

Tbf, Luke was Kylo's Master for over a decade, and in that time he evidently taught Kylo how to become a Force Spirit.

So if Luke taught Kylo abilities that advanced, it seems possible that he would have at least glossed over something a bit more rudimentary, like blocking FL -- especially given his own personal encounter with it. /shrug

Do we know he taught him the Force ghost technique? I thought maybe Skywalkers just turn into Ghosts regardless given Anakin did.

Everything is easier for Skywalkers for sure, but it's still an ability that has to be learned.

Originally posted by Galan007
The implication in Dooku: Jedi Lost is that the Jedi didn't really teach their students much at all about the Sith -- it was a taboo subject. For example, when Dooku was a Jedi, he had to break into the Jedi vaults(where ancient Sith holocrons/texts were kept) to start learning anything of value about the esoteric ways of the dark side. So in the pre-PT era, I doubt learning how to block FL would have been part of the students' essential learning.



This seems kind of a step backwards, something something something, not learning from history can equal bad things. I mean yeah the Dark Side was dangerous, but if the Jedi don't know how dangerous it can be by not learning properly about it....that's kinda worse.

One of the many flaws of the PT Jedi I suppose

Originally posted by Zenwolf
This seems kind of a step backwards, something something something, not learning from history can equal bad things. I mean yeah the Dark Side was dangerous, but if the Jedi don't know how dangerous it can be by not learning properly about it....that's kinda worse. The indication I got from the book is that the Jedi were wary of exposing their students to the Sith ways, because they didn't want to risk them seduced by the power of the dark side. I guess maybe they didn't think the students had enough self-control to handle that kind of knowledge without being corrupted by it?

Once they were Knight-level, the Jedi were a lot more free to research the Sith if they chose to... But even then it was frowned upon by the others.

Originally posted by Galan007
The implication in Dooku: Jedi Lost is that the Jedi didn't really teach their students much at all about the Sith -- it was a taboo subject. For example, when Dooku was a Jedi, he had to break into the Jedi vaults(where ancient Sith holocrons/texts were kept) to start learning anything of value about the esoteric ways of the dark side. So in the pre-PT era, I doubt learning how to block FL would have been part of the students' essential learning.

But that could have very well changed after the events of TPM. I think some Jedi were allowed to such as that female Jedi from Jedi Lost who specialized in tracking down Sith relics.

Kostana was a Master, though, so she was allowed to research the Sith and whatnot.

But even still, Kostana's fascination with the dark side essentially made her a leper among the Jedi... She wasn't well received by the rest of the Order.

Originally posted by Galan007
Everything is easier for Skywalkers for sure, but it's still an ability that has to be learned.


But Anakin never learned it ??

Okay I didnt know that.

Really isnt logical though that Kylo learned to let go of everything to Achieve spiritual immortality, and then still turned to the dark side afterwards.

Im sure they didnt think that through and that Abrams just wanted him disappearing because thats what we see happen in the OT.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Okay I didnt know that.

Really isnt logical though that Kylo learned to let go of everything to Achieve spiritual immortality, and then still turned to the dark side afterwards.

Im sure they didnt think that through and that Abrams just wanted him disappearing because thats what we see happen in the OT. Much like Vader, Kylo ultimately redeemed himself, which is why he was able to become a spirit.

You're probably right. I'm just trying to find some kind of logic in it.

^ Actually that kinda makes sense. He may have had some sort of training he hadnt mastered, then learned to let go right at the end.

Or so our logic leads us to believe. Who knows what Disney logic actually is here.

1. Dooku
2. Kylo
3. Dooku

Kylo is more powerful but Dooku is far more consistent and experienced.