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I've seen some people argue that he was conflicted (and therefore weaker) in this period, and I've seen some people say that this was his peak.

Which assertion makes the most sense to you? Asking mostly about canon Vader.

Canon Vader comics have a scene with kenobi where he seems to imply he gets more powerful with "each step further away from you" after he kills him on the death star. I'm 99% sure the pablo hidalgo quote specifically is saying that was vader's prime, up until that point.

That he was conflicted.

"Your thoughts betray you, father. I feel the good in you...the conflict."

"I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate."

And, of course, there is the fact that he did turn.

I don't think there is anything in canon stating that Vader was "weaker" in RotJ. Granted, there was underlying conflict/good in him(which both Luke and Palpatine sensed), but I don't know that the "flickering light"(as Palpatine described it) within Vader would have gimped his power or whathaveyou.

So you think ROTJ was his peak or??

I think ROTJ was Vaders peak. No reason to believe Vaders powers just stopped growing, and being "conflicted" against Luke doesnt necessarily mean his power declined IMO.

Being conflicted would hinder him for sure. Just look at Mustafa Anakin getting slices up by Obi-Wan.

Plus its pretty well established that focus and mental clarity has a big impact on force connections.

Yep. That's my thought on it as well.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Being conflicted would hinder him for sure. Just look at Mustafa Anakin getting slices up by Obi-Wan.

Plus its pretty well established that focus and mental clarity has a big impact on force connections. Was it stated or implied that he was hindered in ROTJ?

At best Vader is equal to his rebels self since Hildago seems to think Rebels is Prime Vader. It's up for debate if he's weaker in ROTJ though.

Originally posted by Sheev
Was it stated or implied that he was hindered in ROTJ?

Did you read Darth's post? Yes, it heavily implied. A force users abilities rely heavily on their state of mind. And if they are conflicted they tend not to fight nearly as well as they normally could.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
So you think ROTJ was his peak or??
As ares and DT mentioned: inner conflict can have a heavy impact on a character's overall power. So it really just depends if the conflict Vader was experiencing during RotJ was enough to hinder his abilities in such a way.

I will say that said conflict must have been buried pretty deep, as Vader was still willing to bring Luke before Palpatine, then defend Palpatine from Luke's strike, then go on to try and coax Luke towards the dark side -- even Jedi vs. Sith states that Vader was initially trying to turn Luke towards the dark side. It wasn't until Luke was dying right in front of him that Vader finally embraced the underlying good in himself. Prior to that, it didn't seem like Vader was at all prepared to walk away from the dark side/Palpatine.

Maybe the new comic series(which is set between ESB and RotJ) will shed some more light on that aspect of Vader's character.

Vader was indeed conflicted as made clear by Starwars.com and evident from the movie.




This means there were cracks in Vader's surface of dark side emotions through which Luke was able to sense the good in Vader. Compassion for his son was weakening his hatred (eventually overcoming it later in the movie). Even though Vader was still using the dark side to fight, it's possible he couldn't do it in full capacity. How much was this affecting Vader's abilities is hard to quantifie though.

IIRC the Disney Novels for ROTJ tell us that he was contempletating killing Luke, and had hatrid for him, I think due to jealousy but I can't remember.

But abilities wise, I'm sure he'd be fine as long as Luke isn't talking. So imo ROTJ is still peak Vader until Luke tells him to let go of his hate.

Pretty sure thats the original novel. But none of that means he wasnt conflicted though-out the film. Palpatine even suspects as much.

And look at all the evil shit Anakin did in ROTS, yet clearly he had emotional conflict on Mustafa.

I'm 70% sure it's from Beware of the Dark Side. But yes I never said he wasn't conflicted, just that I don't think it hinders him unless it gets brought to the surface like when Luke talks to him before they go to meet the Emperor.

^ Sure it might have always been there to a small extent. Thats why Vader says - You were right about me - and Luke first senses that good in him in ESB, but it clearly wasnt effecting him too much yet.

Originally posted by Scizard
But yes I never said he wasn't conflicted, just that I don't think it hinders him unless it gets brought to the surface like when Luke talks to him before they go to meet the Emperor. Kind of what I think as well.

Granted the underlying conflict/good was still there, but without Luke in the picture to coax it out of Vader, it don't think it would have been much of a hindrance to his overall abilities.

Make no mistake, Vader was still evil in that era.

Stuff like this makes me wonder if, when Vader stops Luke from striking down the emperor, he wasn't just doing it to protect his master. That a small part of him, maybe, was protecting Luke from going down the same path he had.

Did it make him weaker, though? not at all.

I mean Vader brought Luke to the Emperor so obviously he would stop Luke striking him down.

But what also became clear is he wasnt going to be fine with the Emperor killing Luke either.

Hence the conflict.

Filoni has said before that the Vader we see in Rebels is Vader in his prime.