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Classic Juggernaut

Two fights:

1. Herald Morg
2. WOL Morg

No Bfr. Who wins?

Classic Juggs laughed off a god blast. Nothing morg can do will mean much. But morg with the waters would be really tough for Juggs to take out physically. Juggs would beat regular morg. A draw against wol morg maybe?

Which one of these 2 have the best speed fts?

WOL Morg was highly infused with mystical energy. Cain has lost to far less.

Herald Morg without WOL probably stalemates him. Again Classic Juggernaut has lost to far less than one of Galactus' most dangerous heralds

really? who has classic juggs actually lost to?

Morg in both. Juggernaut has been hurt by Nightcrawler using a flaming chandelier, Shatterstar's swords, two punches from Prof. Hulk floored him, etc...

That Godblast showing (from a weakened Thor btw) Juggernaut had is a one off, super high. Everything else has been a series of less than stellar showings.

Interesting to see the wide gap between opinions.

yeah, hard to believe they can be so drastically wrong. when his powers are actually written properly--as they often but not always are--he wins or draws this, unless bfr is available then i'm sure morg, especially with the water, could bfr him. a flaming chandelier.... lol

Originally posted by leonidas
a flaming chandelier.... lol
Juggernaut wasn't laughing when he was hit with it :
https://i.postimg.cc/VdvTFPrh/1715128-curse-you.jpg

i've seen the scan many times and it never fails to crack me up.

Cain has as many 2 dollar hoe feats like above as he does legitimately good ones.

He is completely writer dependent. If the writer thinks of him as an x-men/spiderman villain then he is going to be treated like garbage.

He really does. His highs are great, but his average places him in the Low to Mid Herald tier. Going back to his highs, he has the durability to resist Mid to High Trans attacks, but from a purely historical standpoint, he rarely performs on those high levels. Morg on the other hand has a better track record, as I find it difficult to imagine Cain doing well against Thanos.

@stoic
But that's the thing. He really doesn't have great highs. He has ONE good high, against Thor's Godblast, but even then there's context. Keep in mind Thor was in a weakened state that issue because Loki was attacking him spiritually.

@CosmicComet
The reason why writers treat him like a X-Men/Spiderman villain is because he IS a X-Men/Spiderman villain.

Originally posted by zopzop
@stoic
But that's the thing. He really doesn't have great highs. He has ONE good high, against Thor's Godblast, but even then there's context. Keep in mind Thor was in a weakened state that issue because Loki was attacking him spiritually.

@CosmicComet
The reason why writers treat him like a X-Men/Spiderman villain is because he IS a X-Men/Spiderman villain.

Not sure if I remember correctly but didn't Cain have a good showing against Galactus? He also has good feats during the 7th and 8th day arc. He has highs, but again he averages at around low to mid herald.

Originally posted by Stoic
Not sure if I remember correctly but didn't Cain have a good showing against Galactus? He also has good feats during the 7th and 8th day arc. He has highs, but again he averages at around low to mid herald.
He was amped during the 7th/8th day arc.

Originally posted by leonidas
flaming

zop?

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, hard to believe they can be so drastically wrong. when his powers are actually written properly--as they often but not always are--he wins or draws this, unless bfr is available then i'm sure morg, especially with the water, could bfr him. a flaming chandelier.... lol I sometimes forget to specify no BFR, but suffice to say I don't want it here.

I'm just curious to see how these characters are seen in relation to another -- and Jugs specifically, who seems to rely a lot on that old godblast feat, but then again I think he has other good ones too (and a few really bad ones).

Like...how does Morg's output compare to Hulk? To Thor? I peg Surfer and Morg as pretty close in power (surfer obviously having the edge), would Juggs walk through him, too? How would he deal with Thanos output? Is it bigger than a godblast?

The godblast was directly compared to the one used against celestials I believe so all the above shouldn't matter

Originally posted by CosmicComet
The godblast was directly compared to the one used against celestials I believe so all the above shouldn't matter
Was Thor suffering from crippling spiritual attacks that left him weak and disoriented when he fired off the Godblast against the Celestials? No right?

No, but the power was the same nonetheless.

Not like the Godblast is a physical punch or something.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
No, but the power was the same nonetheless.

Not like the Godblast is a physical punch or something.
Wrong :
https://i.postimg.cc/jDXYqnNC/1417673-exitar-deflects001.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1g3h8RcB/1417674-exitar-deflects002.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/nsS8B83J/1417675-exitar-deflects003.jpg
See the difference? A healthy Thor, uttering Runic spells during the Godblast, reinforces Mjolnir with his Belt of Strength, let's off a Godblast so powerful it shreds his Belt of Strength and shatters Mjolnir.

There is no comparison between that blast vs Exitar and the blast a weakened Thor let off against Juggernaut.

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong :
https://i.postimg.cc/jDXYqnNC/1417673-exitar-deflects001.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1g3h8RcB/1417674-exitar-deflects002.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/nsS8B83J/1417675-exitar-deflects003.jpg
See the difference? A healthy Thor, uttering Runic spells during the Godblast, reinforces Mjolnir with his Belt of Strength, let's off a Godblast so powerful it shreds his Belt of Strength and shatters Mjolnir.

There is no comparison between that blast vs Exitar and the blast a weakened Thor let off against Juggernaut.

👍👍
That was definitely a weakened godblast. Pretty obvious too.

it's very difficult to keep track of when juggs is and isn't at full power, but in this thread i assume full, classic power levels, without cis. that means cain will NOT forget about his force field, as he so often does in so many of his fights. morg would try hacking and physically overpowering him, but i see that going LESS well than it did for thor. thor was only able to win because of magic. even the hulk has been unable to physically beat juggs, so i don't see morg doing it. morg is more a brawler than anything else, and that is jugg's specialty. it's rare for juggs to get clean wins against guys, but he very rarely ever actually loses. in this type of fight where there is no where for morg to go, i can't see juggs losing it.

^^nuff said.

Originally posted by zopzop
Was Thor suffering from crippling spiritual attacks that left him weak and disoriented when he fired off the Godblast against the Celestials? No right?
He was at that time. Problem is it's impossible to say how much it affected his abilities like godblast for example. We just know he was in a weakened state during that run.

that is true. but he's strong enough to put morg down imo.



lol forgot about this.

i see ss has being significantly more powerful than morg, even though the showings against each other might not reflect that. i think the only time ss really went all out against him, he put morg down. morg is a brawler--not necessarily ss's forte. i would certainly place morg below thor as well, though that would be a fun fight, and i can't see morg taking out hulk either.

juggs v ss would be...awkward to watch lol i don't really know if ss could put him down, but he would certainly easily be able to bfr him in a 1000 ways. if he went physical or resorted to blasting that definitely wouldn't get things done. if ss fought like an idiot, i could see juggs ending him like green scar took down ss via pummeling.

likewise i don't see typical thanos doing much better than thor or ss would/did, but like ss thanos wouldn't bother challenging juggs physically, he'd simply bfr him using some sort of exotic ability or maybe along the lines of what wwh did to juggs.

to get through the classic juggs, full power shield via straight power, i'd think you'd need to be at or around the skyfather level OR have some uber magic to call on. someone like fate or strange would have better odds i think of handling juggs through power.

someone will bring up onslaught--but i think it was clear there he didn't have a shield up.

to be clear, that doesn't mean i think juggs could beat thanos, or anyone else at or near his level--i just think that at full power, with his shield, he is really damn hard to put down. like stoic said though, his offense is significantly below his defense. i wish they went back to old juggs, the one who could toss around some exotic styles of offense. where's newjak when i need him!! lol

Always thought that his shield was part of his durability... Or part of his unstopability factor.
I figured the godblast showing falls on the high end of his durability/unstopability.

no, there's a definite, artistic rendering when he has a shield up. he's very durable without the shield, clearly, but the force field puts him at a completely different level. even without the shield hulk has been unable to put him down though, so his durability is very good even without.

recently his powers have changed though, so i'm not sure if the current version of juggs even HAS a shield. which is why i've been saying classic, full power juggs.

Oh i agree about the shield jutting out. I always thought that was the exteme rendition of it. Anyways, im not a juggs afficionado so ill defer to u guys.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Always thought that his shield was part of his durability... Or part of his unstopability factor.

I'm no Juggernaut expert, just have seen it described both ways a handful of times, both in comics and official bios.