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In a forum fight, what would be more useful?

A character with true omnipotence (absent omniscience) or a character with true omniscience, but no other powers?

If you're truly omnipotent, you can give yourself omniscience.

But if you're just omniscient you can be.....impotent.

"I know the exact second my opponent's fist will smash into my nose!!"

VS

"I turn my opponent into a swarm of soap bubbles."

Hmm. Tough.

"I know all the ways I will lose to my opponent and there's nothing I can do about it. Swell. "

Originally posted by Phil
If you're truly omnipotent, you can give yourself omniscience. Or remove it from your opponent.

yeah that's a weird question. omniscience is just one part of omnipotence...

what about impotence?

Going by the Doctrine of Divine Simplicity omnipotence and omniscience is the same thing, just as any other absolute attribute.

The argument is based on the premise that God is the greatest being conceivable, and since aseity is better than a dependent existence, God is a se. So God's existence is independent of everything which means that God isn't a composite of parts (since a composite of parts depend on its parts to be what it is), that is to say God is simple. In other words God's existence and essence, essence and attribute, and attribute and attribute are all the same thing.

This is pretty cool because it implies that the attributes associated with God (omnipotence, omniscience, etc.) are facets of the same indivisible concept.

Originally posted by Astner
Going by the Doctrine of Divine Simplicity omnipotence and omniscience is the same thing, just as any other absolute attribute.

The argument is based on the premise that God is the greatest being conceivable, and since aseity is better than a dependent existence, God is a se. So God's existence is independent of everything which means that God isn't a composite of parts (since a composite of parts depend on its parts to be what it is), that is to say God is simple. In other words God's existence and essence, essence and attribute, and attribute and attribute are all the same thing.

This is pretty cool because it implies that the attributes associated with God (omnipotence, omniscience, etc.) are facets of the same indivisible concept. Good post

I mean that there are ways to counter things.

Energy that increases forever ♾ could form a unclassified stop on the ball that rolls back down the hill for instance if you use that example.

So you can see how knowing any solution can improve the battle. Then you can outdo the power.

Of course the power throughout would become something infinitely greater and the battle can rage on.

Originally posted by MrMind
what about impotence?

What about it, you have a problem???? Huh do you???


Oh you weren't talking about me......


Move along nothing to see here

Originally posted by MrMind
what about impotence?

Asking the real questions here

Omnimpotent mhmm

Omniscience wins. You'd know how to defeat the all powerful dummy.

Surely that's dependent on there actually BEING a way to defeat the all powerful dummy?

I think Socrates found it smart to lose his life for knowledge rather than keep it for power.

wonder man with words of wisdom

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Surely that's dependent on there actually BEING a way to defeat the all powerful dummy? Exactly.

Omniscience in and of itself cannot make the impossible, possible... If there is no way to win, there is no way to win.

How many times have you witnessed a no win scenario in comics? Being all powerful is just that and that alone, while being all knowing makes one all powerful. Knowledge after all is the very definition of power.

The OP asks which would win between the two. Omnipotence by itself, devoid of intellect, versus Omniscience by itself, devoid of power.

Looking at this from a timeliness perspectine, the struggle begins at the start of the match. We have to also look at this from a comic book perspective, less it be disqualified for being in the wrong forum. With that said, we can automatically bring up the myriad forces that play a part in keeping a functionally healthy comic book time line/dimension from spiralling out of order, or a chaotic one from becoming orderly. The Omniscient one would know how to bend the physical laws of the physical plane due to knowing how to tap into those selfsame comic book forces. Meanwhile you have the Omnipotent one with no clue as to what comes next. Can the Omniscient one possibly know how to take the Omnipotent one's power for him/her self? Well, of course, because they are all knowing.

I know the principles of aerodynamics and flight.

Doesn't mean I can flap my hands and soar.

Even if I knew how to build a plane from scratch, if I lack the tools and materials, I can't do jack.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know the principles of aerodynamics and flight.

Doesn't mean I can flap my hands and soar.

Even if I knew how to build a plane from scratch, if I lack the tools and materials, I can't do jack.

Okay think comic book universe, and all of the forces that lie within. You'd have more knowledge of magic than any comic book character that was ever written. You'd know where every discovered and undiscovered item of power existed; with the addition of knowing how to immediately use them, and how to perform every scientific experiment both known and unknown. Once again, this is a comic universe that you know better than a person knows their own body. Any and every movement in that universe would be known to you. How is that not power?

Originally posted by Stoic
Okay think comic book universe, and all of the forces that lie within. You'd have more knowledge of magic than any comic book character that was ever written. You'd know where every discovered and undiscovered item of power existed; with the addition of knowing how to immediately use them, and how to perform every scientific experiment both known and unknown. Once again, this is a comic universe that you know better than a person knows their own body. Any and every movement in that universe would be known to you. How is that not power?

Is that not what we have right now?

As in, I can easily Wiki/Google/go into my comic book shop, and get a comic that tells me exactly where the Power Stone is (as an example).

Let's say I then get teleported into the DCU. I know exactly where in MARVEL the Power Stone is...that doesn't mean I can do anything about it.

Extreme example - so let's say I get teleported to Marvel NYC, with only the stuff I have in my pockets. I remember that the Power Stone is say, in Shi-Ar space, on a random planet. I know the exact coordinates on this planet.

Now what? I rock up to Tony and tell him to go get it for me? Even if I knew the magic spells to teleport myself there (or the Stone to me), the cost involved likely means I can't do it, not to mention whatever powers I invoke to get the spell done would probably phuck me over. There's a cost and a natural talent that needs to go with magic, otherwise Stark and Reed would be doing it (i.e. its not just a matter of 'knowledge').

Edit: I was incorrect on that last point - O5 Beast learned magic and could use it. Still, however, there is the cost involved in using magic.

No it isn't. Read what I wrote.

But you would also know how to use magic on a scale that made Merlin look like an amoeba on glass..

How again do you lack the means to get what you need?

Cost? You already know the magic. Huh? Come again? You would already know how to use it better than anyone or thing in creation.

Tony? Lol. The shit you'd make would surpass Abstract.

I kind of ignored the cost of spells comment, because in that case, every time Dr. Strange teleports, or casts a spell, (Zatana included) we'd have to take that into account, which has for the most part rarely been an issue. You've inflated the situation. We should probably steer away from that direction.

Originally posted by Stoic
I kind of ignored the cost of spells comment, because in that case, every time Dr. Strange teleports, or casts a spell, (Zatana included) we'd have to take that into account, which has for the most part rarely been an issue. You've inflated the situation. We should probably steer away from that direction.

Zatana is part Homo Magi, so she can cast spells in part due to her species.

I'm not really inflating the situation. Dr Strange had an entire book dedicated to the cost of magic he's been paying, and it has been running since 2015. The more powerful the spell/magic, the more costly it is. This is just a single example:

https://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/screen-shot-2018-01-18-at-3-24-32-pm.png

All magic in Marvel comes at a cost. DC too, but they have the added wrinkle in that Homo Magi heritage is sometimes needed.

And that doesn't even take into account the naming of beings:

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Doctor-Strange-Comic-Magic-Source.jpg

Originally posted by Stoic
No it isn't. Read what I wrote.

But you would also know how to use magic on a scale that made Merlin look like an amoeba on glass..

How again do you lack the means to get what you need?

Cost? You already know the magic. Huh? Come again? You would already know how to use it better than anyone or thing in creation.

Tony? Lol. The shit you'd make would surpass Abstract.

You know the spells and the ingredients needed for magic - but actually enacting them involves a cost. I may know how to cast the crimson bands of Cytorrak - but using them would involve a cost.

Again - knowledge =/= actually being able to do it. You'd be like a paraplegic who knows the theory and mechanics of running.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Is that not what we have right now?

As in, I can easily Wiki/Google/go into my comic book shop, and get a comic that tells me exactly where the Power Stone is (as an example).

Let's say I then get teleported into the DCU. I know exactly where in MARVEL the Power Stone is...that doesn't mean I can do anything about it.

Extreme example - so let's say I get teleported to Marvel NYC, with only the stuff I have in my pockets. I remember that the Power Stone is say, in Shi-Ar space, on a random planet. I know the exact coordinates on this planet.

Now what? I rock up to Tony and tell him to go get it for me? Even if I knew the magic spells to teleport myself there (or the Stone to me), the cost involved likely means I can't do it, not to mention whatever powers I invoke to get the spell done would probably phuck me over. There's a cost and a natural talent that needs to go with magic, otherwise Stark and Reed would be doing it (i.e. its not just a matter of 'knowledge').

Edit: I was incorrect on that last point - O5 Beast learned magic and could use it. Still, however, there is the cost involved in using magic.
With Omniscience even if you showed up in marvel penniless and wanted the Power stone on another planet. You have the knowledge to make yourself rich, make a teleportation device or a ship, cloaking device that would make invisible to everyone and everything. You could practically figure out a way to bring the power stone to you.

Originally posted by Diesldude
With Omniscience even if you showed up in marvel penniless and wanted the Power stone on another planet. You have the knowledge to make yourself rich, make a teleportation device or a ship, cloaking device that would make invisible to everyone and everything. You could practically figure out a way to bring the power stone to you.

Meanwhile, my omnipotent opponent snapped his fingers and the stone appears in his pocket.

You are inflating it. Who are you kidding? Who said anything about invoking anything major?

You went from this...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know the principles of aerodynamics and flight.

Doesn't mean I can flap my hands and soar.

Even if I knew how to build a plane from scratch, if I lack the tools and materials, I can't do jack.

To this

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zatana is part Homo Magi, so she can cast spells in part due to her species.

I'm not really inflating the situation. Dr Strange had an entire book dedicated to the cost of magic he's been paying, and it has been running since 2015. The more powerful the spell/magic, the more costly it is. This is just a single example:

https://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/screen-shot-2018-01-18-at-3-24-32-pm.png

All magic in Marvel comes at a cost. DC too, but they have the added wrinkle in that Homo Magi heritage is sometimes needed.

And that doesn't even take into account the naming of beings:

https://static1.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Doctor-Strange-Comic-Magic-Source.jpg

So yes you are inflating things.

Also if Stephen can do it, you'd be able to as well.

Originally posted by Stoic
You are inflating it. Who are you kidding? Who said anything about invoking anything major?

You went from this...



To this



So yes you are inflating things.

*sigh* you missed my point that it was JUST ONE EXAMPLE, it was the quickest one I could get.

But ok. Here you go - Wong and the Ancient One and Strange talking about how EVERY single spell comes at a cost:

https://i.postimg.cc/3dS8TqCh/RCO005-1468920971.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/5jm9PyX6/RCO012-1468920971.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/SJNSH49V/RCO016-1583477732.jpg

EVERY spell. Major, minor, doesn't matter - it always has a price.

Here, Strange needed to lock his debts in his cellar, and even then, there was still a price to pay - ever since his beginnings.

Also, bonus scan showing he has magic in his blood. It's not just 'knowing things':

https://i.postimg.cc/LY6Q2xVd/RCO013-1466598933.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/bSZ62dM3/RCO014-1466598933.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/MXH3LrTV/RCO016-1469303334.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/zbttBTdy/RCO021-1469303334.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/8FbX22MB/RCO022-1469303334.jpg

And I am not even on issue #12 yet lmao.

I'll respond after wok.

OK.

https://i.postimg.cc/VLXJrLky/RCO016-1583477732.jpg

Those are the costs we have to weigh, everytime we say "Abaracadabra".

And:
https://i.postimg.cc/brXdvdWB/RCO005-1468920971.jpg

Note that this is early on in Strange's career - when he wasn't using big major spells, saving the world. Yet he was still throwing up for three days after his first few spells.

In short, just knowing spells isn't enough - there's a price one has to pay for casting said spells (my original point).

Going back to my example, just because you know where a certain item is in the Marvel Universe, and who is carrying it etc etc, doesn't really help you. Even if you knew the spell to teleport it to your pocket, you need the talent for magic, AND be prepared to pay the cost. Btw, no, just because Strange can do it, doesn't mean you can either:
https://i.imgur.com/HqOqliU.png

Even Daimon Hellstrom, as knowledgeable and as talented as he was, wasn't to be the Sorcerer Supreme - Strange is special in that regard.

And that's with magic. Technology? Sure, you COULD whip some tech up - it'll take you time though. What's stopping the other guy from just one-upping you on the fly?

None of the above have your knowledge. They cast spells. What is your point? Okay, so we go back to the cost. In that case Stephen is either casting spells at the expense of lives (or perhaps even souls), or living organisms, because when he's in battle, I have yet to see these physical costs that you mention. How does that work again? I mean does he wait until the cost catches up with him when he leasts expects it, or does he pay the moment that he screams by the Hoary Host's of Gingersnaps?

I tell you man, I cant see it on a physical level.

Like I was saying, they use magic, so you can as well. Care to imagine what you'd be able to create with basic household items? You are omniscient. This does not mean that you wiki anything. You simply wouldn't need to.

Im busy. Gotta go.

It's personal cost. He has stomach ulcers, can't eat normal food (it all turns to ash) and has to eat food that tastes of leprosy, can't sleep more than three hours a night, throws up constantly.....

I mean you'd know this had you, you know, clicked on any of the scans lmao.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*sigh* you missed my point that it was JUST ONE EXAMPLE, it was the quickest one I could get.

But ok. Here you go - Wong and the Ancient One and Strange talking about how EVERY single spell comes at a cost:

https://i.postimg.cc/3dS8TqCh/RCO005-1468920971.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/5jm9PyX6/RCO012-1468920971.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/SJNSH49V/RCO016-1583477732.jpg

EVERY spell. Major, minor, doesn't matter - it always has a price.

These "revelations" are so damn weird.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's personal cost. He has stomach ulcers, can't eat normal food (it all turns to ash) and has to eat food that tastes of leprosy, can't sleep more than three hours a night, throws up constantly.....

I'm a magician now?

Oh, no. Just an alcoholic.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
These "revelations" are so damn weird.

*checks writer*

https://i.postimg.cc/VvJMG4V0/RCO001-w-1466598933.jpg

I mean, I guess it makes sense. Otherwise, what's stopping any 'smart' character from learning magic, if a good memory is all that's needed.

Hell, what's stopping Tony from just building a robot that recites spells at high speed.....


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I'm a magician now?

Oh, no. Just an alcoholic.

Lol. Plus, Strange throws up chunks of his soul twice a day.

The Omniscience character would know he's fictional and ask the writer to erase the Omnipotent one with some plot device in exchange of lottery numbers.

Omniscient character 10/10

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
*checks writer*

https://i.postimg.cc/VvJMG4V0/RCO001-w-1466598933.jpg

I mean, I guess it makes sense. Otherwise, what's stopping any 'smart' character from learning magic, if a good memory is all that's needed.

Hell, what's stopping Tony from just building a robot that recites spells at high speed.....




Was gonna guess it was Bendis. Was quite close. Aaron has become Bendis-lite in last few years.

Smart characters (well, most of them) can't learn magic because they adhere too much to real life physics and such. It was established in Mark Waid's F4 run. One has to be really open-mided, think outside of the box and be always willing to explore the unnatural stuff that doesn't make one tiny bit of sense in "real world".

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. Plus, Strange throws up chunks of his soul twice a day.

Again, sounds like drinking problem.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hell, what's stopping Tony from just building a robot that recites spells at high speed.....

Doombot used magic just fine.

Hey - just saying.

this is true. But then even his magic was then blocked easily, PRECISELY because Doom doesn't pay the price of magic....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's personal cost. He has stomach ulcers, can't eat normal food (it all turns to ash) and has to eat food that tastes of leprosy, can't sleep more than three hours a night, throws up constantly.....

I mean you'd know this had you, you know, clicked on any of the scans lmao.

I work long hours. Not much time. All the same, the Omniscient One would know where and how to use any and every artifact in the well known comic universes. Can they get to even one with a spell? Like a one time jaunt? Of course they can. Why not retrieve a Starbrand? That's just the beginning.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
this is true. But then even his magic was then blocked easily, PRECISELY because Doom doesn't pay the price of magic....

You posted that scan recently, yes.

I find that weird, because...

1) Doom is a very capable sorcerer, gets more powerful with each year, one could say (got props from Strange, too),

2) he is willing to pay the price, as shown in Waid's run,

3) Taskmaster survived the Doombot magical attack only because of his custom armor. So, robots apparently can cast lethal-to-human spells, quick and easy.

Originally posted by Bentley
The Omniscience character would know he's fictional and ask the writer to erase the Omnipotent one with some plot device in exchange of lottery numbers.

Omniscient character 10/10

That assumes the Omniscient character is able to interact with the writer. Maybe there's a supremely clever dolphin out there who just got slaughtered by a Japanese fisherman.

Originally posted by Stoic
I work long hours. Not much time. All the same, the Omniscient One would know where and how to use any and every artifact in the well known comic universes. Can they get to even one with a spell? Like a one time jaunt? Of course they can. Why not retrieve a Starbrand? That's just the beginning.

Fair enough.

Then why doesn't the Omnipotent One just.....make himself Omniscient? That's even faster than having to get the Starbrand etc...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You posted that scan recently, yes.

I find that weird, because...

1) Doom is a very capable sorcerer, gets more powerful with each year, one could say (got props from Strange, too),

2) he is willing to pay the price, as shown in Waid's run,

3) Taskmaster survived the Doombot magical attack only because of his custom armor. So, robots apparently can cast lethal-to-human spells, quick and easy.

Unless Doom has a whole group of people somewhere taking on that price (like Wong had that entire monastery dedicated to taking on Strange's boils and bleeding eyes etc). Or has a golem in Doomstadt like Strange had in his cellar.

Or writers just make this shit up as they go along personally, I always liked the cost angle, so....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or writers just make this shit up as they go along

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that to be the case.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
personally, I always liked the cost angle, so....

I can see the appeal, I'm just saying it's not consistent at all with what we knew about Marvel's magic.

Of course, after so many decades, there is a shitload of inconsistencies almost everywhere.

Wolverine's healing factor --- either amps his physical stats or does nothing. Either comes in a package with extra pain tolerance or... just makes every wound hurt even worse.

Blade... enhanced by Morbius' bite... or bite not mattering one bit, as far as his physiology is concerned...

Black Widow... just a peak human, kinda average street... or a top street with SSS (Red Room's variant)...

Taskmaster... crystal clear memory being a side-effect of his photographic reflexes... or a condition making him forget stuff, also a side-effect of the same ability.

Blade can also turn into bats at will

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That assumes the Omniscient character is able to interact with the writer.

The thread states these are characters, how can you write an omniscient character without being omniscient yourself?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Blade can also turn into bats at will



To be fair, I believe that "Avengers of the Supernatural" arc had Blade and Ghost Rider amped, among others.

But I don't remember if it was implicitly stated or it was just us, kmcers, trying to make sense out of it as we always do?

If your Omniscient you can get in the guys face and walk away.

Originally posted by Wonder Man
If your Omniscient you can get in the guys face and walk away.

To the Omniscient, your posts, confusing they are.

Wonderman's posts make me leak precum even when I don't touch myself.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That assumes the Omniscient character is able to interact with the writer. Maybe there's a supremely clever dolphin out there who just got slaughtered by a Japanese fisherman.



Fair enough.

Then why doesn't the Omnipotent One just.....make himself Omniscient? That's even faster than having to get the Starbrand etc...



Unless Doom has a whole group of people somewhere taking on that price (like Wong had that entire monastery dedicated to taking on Strange's boils and bleeding eyes etc). Or has a golem in Doomstadt like Strange had in his cellar.

Or writers just make this shit up as they go along personally, I always liked the cost angle, so....

Because the Omnipotent One would be devoid of intelligence. Just a big dumb source of power.

One thing for sure... omnipotence and omniscience in comics are just hyperboles.

Originally posted by Stoic
Because the Omnipotent One would be devoid of intelligence. Just a big dumb source of power.

I mean....I assumed the Omnipotent one, whilst not Omniscient, wasn't going to be a literal retard. Just a normal person with normal intelligence.

That's like me assuming the Omniscient One was a brain in a jar somewhere, with no physical abilities whatsoever. That would be silly of me.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85


Just a normal person with normal intelligence.



What if he is normal, but only by Ugandan standards?

Yes racist.

By normal intelligence you mean like an average american or normal normal?

Originally posted by Bentley
By normal intelligence you mean like an average american or normal normal?

so you mean either a super genius or normal normal?

Originally posted by MrMind
so you mean either a super genius or normal normal?

Sure, super exceptional can be average. Thanks for making my point

When you know the will of the other person you can get in their face and walk away.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I mean....I assumed the Omnipotent one, whilst not Omniscient, wasn't going to be a literal retard. Just a normal person with normal intelligence.

That's like me assuming the Omniscient One was a brain in a jar somewhere, with no physical abilities whatsoever. That would be silly of me.

Or simply two forces devoid of form. They were literally birthed into existence at the beginning of this threads OP. Pure power is just that, it has no trajectory. It just sits there like a star. Being Omniscient is a literal rudder that has a means of reshaping reality, especially with the forces that exist in comic books.

Omniscience in a comic book reality, means that you would immediately know every single detail about what was within that selfsame place in it's entirety. You'd immediately know and understand the simplest to most complex things in a chaotic comic book reality. This is exactly why Rune King Thor written with understanding is a pretty big deal.

All of the best mages, smartest scientists, best tacticians, greatest builders, finest artists, greatest mathematicians etc, wouldn't be able to hold a candle to them. What is power without direction?

But OP said two characters.

So I didn't assume two nebulous clouds with no form or abilities, but two actual characters with names and intelligence and physical forms etc.

Originally posted by Stoic
Because the Omnipotent One would be devoid of intelligence. Just a big dumb source of power.

You cannot be Omnipotent without Omniscient or Omnipresent. How is that so hard to understand?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But OP said two characters.

So I didn't assume two nebulous clouds with no form or abilities, but two actual characters with names and intelligence and physical forms etc.

Created by a writer that wants to win the lotery by making the omniscient character win. Good point.

Just to be clear; this is two random physical beings who each have complete mastry over their omnipotence and omniscience.

The only stip is that the omnipotent being cannot gift themselves with omniscience here.

See, the fact that the omnipotent needs a stip kinda tells me which is 'more broken'.

It's a bit paradoxical, because if one were capable of truly grasping/comprehending the full breadth of their omnipotence, they would have to be omniscient as a corollary -- as mastering infinite power would require infinite knowledge... But I digress.

As the thread goes: the omnipotent guy just removes the omniscient guy's omniscience at the onset... Not that an all-knowing guy with no prep, tech, or additional powers/resources of any kind would necessarily be a 'threat' in the first place... But you know what I mean.

Omniscience could harness anything thrown at it.

Originally posted by Stoic
None of the above have your knowledge. They cast spells. What is your point? Okay, so we go back to the cost. In that case Stephen is either casting spells at the expense of lives (or perhaps even souls), or living organisms, because when he's in battle, I have yet to see these physical costs that you mention. How does that work again? I mean does he wait until the cost catches up with him when he leasts expects it, or does he pay the moment that he screams by the Hoary Host's of Gingersnaps?

I tell you man, I cant see it on a physical level.

Like I was saying, they use magic, so you can as well. Care to imagine what you'd be able to create with basic household items? You are omniscient. This does not mean that you wiki anything. You simply wouldn't need to.

Im busy. Gotta go.
Latest Avengers bolsters my point again:

https://i.postimg.cc/66Z3Gsyp/AVEN2018053-Preview-3.webp

Magic has a cost. Just knowing spells isn't enough.

That's not true. Omnipotent simply means unlimited power. Under the definition in the dictionary a monarch or Dictator is Omnipotent within their realm.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/omnipotent

Omnipresent means being everywhere at once

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/omnipresent

Omniscient men's unlimited knowledge.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/omniscient

The application of the prefix omni only means on a universal level for knowledge, as in application a monarch unlimited power or influence is within his realm, an omnipresent security system is within the building it belongs. Unlimited knowledge can't be localised in this way.

Huh, these definitions give me the God-of-Light Hal vibe

Well dinosaurs were all powerful on earth 🌎 and lost to our knowledge.

Being Omniscient means that you know how to become Omnipotent.

In the end, it means what writers want it to mean.

Also, it's a hyperbole in 99.99% cases, too.

Knowing how to do it and actually being able to do it are two completely different things.

I know how to boil water. But if i physically don't have access to a means of creating fire (or access to water, lol).....

Good point, unless the fictional universe in itself works in such way that knowledge is everything and gives you the power to create, alter, erase anything you wish.

Then that's omnipotence.

Omniscience is just knowledge, nothing more. Reed knows everything there is to know about flying - but lock him in a ceilingless room with no powers, and no matter how hard he flaps his hands, he's not flying out there.

The alternative is magic, as Stoic said. But without the specific gene for i, or paying the cost etc....the omnipotent guy would just get omniscience and remove all your powers with a snap

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Knowing how to do it and actually being able to do it are two completely different things.

I know how to boil water. But if i physically don't have access to a means of creating fire (or access to water, lol).....

There are quite a few that firmly believe that it is possible to make water with what is easily accessible at hand. It requires work, but it is possible to create water on an arrid planet. But, I do get what you are saying.

What I'm saying is that, with our far than less omniscient brains, we haven't a clue as to what a brain capable of instantly processing any theory, equation, or anything beyond our imagings could cook up. If knowledge is power, absolute knowledge is? Anyway, that's all that I'm saying. There may be sounds at certain pitches that could be used to teleport across the universe. Not saying that it's possible, just saying is all.

Originally posted by Stoic
There are quite a few that firmly believe that it is possible to make water with what is easily accessible at hand. It requires work, but it is possible to create water on an arrid planet. But, I do get what you are saying.

What I'm saying is that, with our far than less omniscient brains, we haven't a clue as to what a brain capable of instantly processing any theory, equation, or anything beyond our imagings could cook up. If knowledge is power, absolute knowledge is? Anyway, that's all that I'm saying. There may be sounds at certain pitches that could be used to teleport across the universe. Not saying that it's possible, just saying is all.

You still need things 'to hand'. Dump you naked on that arid planet, and it doesn't matter how many chemical engineering degrees or how much real world mechanical engineering knowledge you have, you're not making water out of thin air with nothing 'to hand'.

On the other hand, someone with a water making machine can just....make water. Does he need to know how it works? No. If it breaks down, does he need knowledge on how to fix it? Also no, because he can just get another one.

Knowledge is unnecessary, relative to ability. All of us use phones and the internet without needing to know how it works, just that it does.

You know every frequency that there is to know, every tactic, technique, science, chemical, spell, weakness, strength, every word, everything, and beyond.

That in itself, is omnipotence. This would likely be a stalemate.

Originally posted by Stoic
You know every frequency that there is to know, every tactic, technique, science, chemical, spell, weakness, strength, every word, everything, and beyond.

That in itself, is omnipotence. This would likely be a stalemate.

Ok.

One guy is naked, and knows every martial art in existence. How to use every weapon ever made. Knows..... frequencies. But he's also a cripple and is 98 years old. Also knows all the weaknesses of his opponent.

The other guy is a fit healthy 25 year old, and has a gun. Not the smartest tool in the shed, though.

My bet is on the 25 year old.

Not sure what knowing frequencies does, though. You're giving powers where there are none, when all the omniscient guy has is knowledge, not sci fi powers.

How could this reach 6 pages.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok.

One guy is naked, and knows every martial art in existence. How to use every weapon ever made. Knows..... frequencies. But he's also a cripple and is 98 years old. Also knows all the weaknesses of his opponent.

The other guy is a fit healthy 25 year old, and has a gun. Not the smartest tool in the shed, though.

My bet is on the 25 year old.

Not sure what knowing frequencies does, though. You're giving powers where there are none, when all the omniscient guy has is knowledge, not sci fi powers.
TBF, words alone might be enough for the omniscient old cripple to win. If there is *any* chance at all for him to talk his way out of the situation he'd know it.

Citing the frequency of the sodium D-lines up to 20 decimal places might not be the way, though. :/

That's how I saw it - if the cripple knew something that would play on the kid's mind or knew which buttons to push.

Meanwhile, all the kid has to do is pull the trigger. So there's a chance for the cripple.

Then scale it all the way up. Instead of a gun, the kid can do anything he wants to do - reverse time, put a vacuum around the cripple, turn his tongue into cotton candy, change the frequency of his voice to be outside the limits of human hearing, go back in time so the cripple doesn't speak the same language, whatever.

Butterfly 🦋 can win knowing.
When the indivisible has a Peter Pan effect the known can force a win against power.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then that's omnipotence.

Omniscience is just knowledge, nothing more. Reed knows everything there is to know about flying - but lock him in a ceilingless room with no powers, and no matter how hard he flaps his hands, he's not flying out there.

The alternative is magic, as Stoic said. But without the specific gene for i, or paying the cost etc....the omnipotent guy would just get omniscience and remove all your powers with a snap

The 4 issue Phantom Stranger miniseries from 1987 is a perfect example of how omniscience in a world where magic exists transcends actual power. Stranger is stripped of his power but not his knowledge of magic. Even with only his knowledge he could work lower level spells

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ 7FKNiA_voog6RqVB1RZfReLwU_3e5e5KhDAjQTLDUGOZQ8HOpr
vZBv1DTt_4e5qXdxTokMEsBstOB_Z1pph3jL4sRdzn2WqlgGtl
CoTLL1FjYTwYT9wVyYqWMtWjgzQAuhNHBg=s1600

Gradually using them he acquired enough power to face demons then Eclipso.

Constantine defeats demons and immortals galore with nothing more than their names, or knowing the rules they are bound by. He made the triumvirate of hell heal his lung cancer because their rules dictated they had to fight for every soul they had the right to that died. He made the presence heal his soul because the presence is bound to the rule of free choice for mortals and mercy and denying either was the only way to prevent him ruling hell.

So let's take the scenario you have. There yrnold cripple knows everything. So he knows what the outcome would ne well before it happened and either wouldn't be there or would arrange for the gun to be empty. Or he didn't need to because he already had protection. Because he is ALL KNOWING he knows where every body is buried by every low life for 1000s of miles and more. He contacted 50 told them where a few of their bodies were buried and said that he had prepared evidence to go to their enemies or the police should he die. He had each of them send a dozen armed men to be his constant security protection force. The 25yr old with the gun aimed at the 98 yr is suddenly looking at 600 gun barrels pointed at him the moment he levels his gun at the 98 yr old

Omniscient can make good and make the win.

Originally posted by beatboks
The 4 issue Phantom Stranger miniseries from 1987 is a perfect example of how omniscience in a world where magic exists transcends actual power. Stranger is stripped of his power but not his knowledge of magic. Even with only his knowledge he could work lower level spells

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ 7FKNiA_voog6RqVB1RZfReLwU_3e5e5KhDAjQTLDUGOZQ8HOpr
vZBv1DTt_4e5qXdxTokMEsBstOB_Z1pph3jL4sRdzn2WqlgGtl
CoTLL1FjYTwYT9wVyYqWMtWjgzQAuhNHBg=s1600

Gradually using them he acquired enough power to face demons then Eclipso.

Constantine defeats demons and immortals galore with nothing more than their names, or knowing the rules they are bound by. He made the triumvirate of hell heal his lung cancer because their rules dictated they had to fight for every soul they had the right to that died. He made the presence heal his soul because the presence is bound to the rule of free choice for mortals and mercy and denying either was the only way to prevent him ruling hell.

So let's take the scenario you have. There yrnold cripple knows everything. So he knows what the outcome would ne well before it happened and either wouldn't be there or would arrange for the gun to be empty. Or he didn't need to because he already had protection. Because he is ALL KNOWING he knows where every body is buried by every low life for 1000s of miles and more. He contacted 50 told them where a few of their bodies were buried and said that he had prepared evidence to go to their enemies or the police should he die. He had each of them send a dozen armed men to be his constant security protection force. The 25yr old with the gun aimed at the 98 yr is suddenly looking at 600 gun barrels pointed at him the moment he levels his gun at the 98 yr old

Perfect example indeed

1. There is a cost to magic.

2. You need homo magi genes (certainly in DC). Just waving your hands and reading a spell won't hack it.

Read back a few pages, I've addressed this already.

So now that you're adding stuff, the guy with true power....is simply bulletproof.

It would be like how Scarlet Witch formed her sons out of the lost.
It proves good knowledge wins.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Perfect example indeed

1. There is a cost to magic.

2. You need homo magi genes (certainly in DC). Just waving your hands and reading a spell won't hack it.

Read back a few pages, I've addressed this already.

So now that you're adding stuff, the guy with true power....is simply bulletproof.

I could add stuff all day, and still not even begin to scratch the surface of what an omniscient mind could do. The only thing that's truly new here is me stating that this would become a stalemate. Absolute power vs absolute power.

Knowledge isn't power. Power is power.

ok cersi

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Perfect example indeed

1. There is a cost to magic.

2. You need homo magi genes (certainly in DC). Just waving your hands and reading a spell won't hack it.

Read back a few pages, I've addressed this already.

So now that you're adding stuff, the guy with true power....is simply bulletproof.

And yet in post crisis Stranger wasn't home magi and didn't have a cost in this issue and many more. Because in this instance he wasn't using magic he was manipulating the mana around him.

In all four of his origins he was able to do magic because of his Immortal life allowing him to learn it.

If the guys bulletproof the Omniscient knows that and knows his weakness. Those guards are armed with said weakness or have fed him a poison prior. Or they have someone (or many someones) he loves at gunpoint ready to kill when he draws a gun.

The Omniscient knows in adavance he will be be threat and knows what he can and can't do to get at the one with power. There's no play where the guy with all knowledge doesn't have the upper hand.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Knowledge isn't power. Power is power.

Wrong knowedge is power because with knowledge you can manipulate any power base.

Given the right powers or tools/equipment. Knowledge alone isn't doung shit.

i dont even get what the problem is here. it's a guy who just KNOWS everything vs a guy who can literally DO anything.

match starts and the omnipotent guy turns the omniscient guy into a crayon. or bfrs him. or turns him into a braindead gimp. or just doesnt allow any scenarios where he can be beaten. battle over.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i dont even get what the problem is here. it's a guy who just KNOWS everything vs a guy who can literally DO anything.

match starts and the omnipotent guy turns the omniscient guy into a crayon. or bfrs him. or turns him into a braindead gimp. or just doesnt allow any scenarios where he can be beaten. battle over.

/end thread.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i dont even get what the problem is here. it's a guy who just KNOWS everything vs a guy who can literally DO anything.

match starts and the omnipotent guy turns the omniscient guy into a crayon. or bfrs him. or turns him into a braindead gimp. or just doesnt allow any scenarios where he can be beaten. battle over.

Not going to happen. They'd cancel each other out.

Originally posted by beatboks
And yet in post crisis Stranger wasn't home magi and didn't have a cost in this issue and many more. Because in this instance he wasn't using magic he was manipulating the mana around him.

In all four of his origins he was able to do magic because of his Immortal life allowing him to learn it.

If the guys bulletproof the Omniscient knows that and knows his weakness. Those guards are armed with said weakness or have fed him a poison prior. Or they have someone (or many someones) he loves at gunpoint ready to kill when he draws a gun.

The Omniscient knows in adavance he will be be threat and knows what he can and can't do to get at the one with power. There's no play where the guy with all knowledge doesn't have the upper hand.

Or the omnipotent one has no weakness.

And removes the omniscient one's knowledge.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Or the omnipotent one has no weakness.

And removes the omniscient one's knowledge.

Since the omnipotent one in this scenario isn't Omniscient he doesn't know until he engages the Omniscient one that he has the knowledge to remove it. By which time the Omniscient one has already prepared for him.

Reed isn't Omniscient yet with the knowledge he has he could make an ultimate nulifyer to deal with Galactus hos a he'll of a lot closer to omnipotent than Reed is Omniscient.

Doom isn't Omniscient but could prep to deal with beings that were nigh omnipotent like Marquis of Death, Beyonder and others.

Arion is far from Omniscient yet with his power lost and only his knowledge of magic he defeated Chaon many times.

True omniscience means they know/knew everything. That they have had their entire life to prepare for this moment with full knowledge of what is needed to win and where to obtain it. An omnipotent can only beat an Omniscient if they also have omniscience.

Back to your story. The 98 year old Omniscient knew when he was an indant that when he was 98 he would meet a 25 yr old omnipotent that would try to take his omniscience and kill him. He also knew all the way back then exactly what and who would influence this omnipotent. He has has had 98 years to twist those influences if that is what he knew he needed. He has had full knowledge of exactly what he needed to win, where to acquire it, how long it would take and the time to make the plans to deal with everything that will come from now until the endnof time. Every future invention, power source, and how they will work.

Originally posted by beatboks
Since the omnipotent one in this scenario isn't Omniscient he doesn't know until he engages the Omniscient one that he has the knowledge to remove it. By which time the Omniscient one has already prepared for him.

Reed isn't Omniscient yet with the knowledge he has he could make an ultimate nulifyer to deal with Galactus hos a he'll of a lot closer to omnipotent than Reed is Omniscient.

Doom isn't Omniscient but could prep to deal with beings that were nigh omnipotent like Marquis of Death, Beyonder and others.

Arion is far from Omniscient yet with his power lost and only his knowledge of magic he defeated Chaon many times.

True omniscience means they know/knew everything. That they have had their entire life to prepare for this moment with full knowledge of what is needed to win and where to obtain it. An omnipotent can only beat an Omniscient if they also have omniscience.

Back to your story. The 98 year old Omniscient knew when he was an indant that when he was 98 he would meet a 25 yr old omnipotent that would try to take his omniscience and kill him. He also knew all the way back then exactly what and who would influence this omnipotent. He has has had 98 years to twist those influences if that is what he knew he needed. He has had full knowledge of exactly what he needed to win, where to acquire it, how long it would take and the time to make the plans to deal with everything that will come from now until the endnof time. Every future invention, power source, and how they will work.

Why can't the omnipotent one give himself omniscience? I mean, you don't have to be a genius to do so.

Or time travel back to the past, and give himself omniscience whilst simultaneously taking away the omniscient one's knowledge? Like, just wish that he never had omniscience ever, retroactively into the past.

He doesn't even need to. Beatboks fails to realise that bascially all of his examples require prep(time) and outside resources that's not what the thread asks for. I don't need omniscience to fire the UN towards Galactus. If you're omnipotent you can just blink someone out of existence while having and omniprotective forcefield around you.

If we have 2 clones with no powers or equipment that are exactly the same and somehow give one of them omniscience and the other omnipotence and place them in a vs battle. The omnipotent will win ∞/10.

So far, the best version I feel I like to pick is assnerd's

Simultaneously having Omnipotence/omniscience/omnipresence, problem solved

Originally posted by Parmaniac
He doesn't even need to. Beatboks fails to realise that bascially all of his examples require prep(time) and outside resources that's not what the thread asks for. I don't need omniscience to fire the UN towards Galactus. If you're omnipotent you can just blink someone out of existence while having and omniprotective forcefield around you.

If we have 2 clones with no powers or equipment that are exactly the same and somehow give one of them omniscience and the other omnipotence and place them in a vs battle. The omnipotent will win ∞/10.

Omniscience means you have unlimited prep. If your "all knowing" that knowledge includes everything that will ever happen. It means you knew about the fight as long before it transpires as you've had omniscience.

So then only time the omniscient doesn't have prep is if for some reason both participants only received omniscience and omnipotence at the start of the battle (or the Omniscient did). If both recieved them just before the fight than you have the fact that the omnipotent doesn't actually know how to use their power (Brice Almighty), which might make him even easier manipulated by the Omniscient.

The nature of omniscience is that you always knew this moment was going to happen and how it was going to play out from the moment you had omniscience. You always knew exactly what could affect the outcome and how it would affect it. Are hou suggesting they did nothing?

How many times in fiction has some super need pulled out a plot device win with some device they had planned for just such an occasion without prep? Remember now we are talking about a fictional Omniscient. One who has always known EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Why can't the omnipotent one give himself omniscience? I mean, you don't have to be a genius to do so.

Or time travel back to the past, and give himself omniscience whilst simultaneously taking away the omniscient one's knowledge? Like, just wish that he never had omniscience ever, retroactively into the past.

So you've proven the omnipotent needed omniscience to beat an Omniscient, or to remove the omniscience from the Omniscient.

So The only ways the Omniscient looses is if he's

1. No longer Omniscient
2. Faces an omnipotent who has omniscience.

So it's now a battle between an omnipotent and a normal guy, and therefore not the topic of discussion

Originally posted by beatboks
So you've proven the omnipotent needed omniscience to beat an Omniscient, or to remove the omniscience from the Omniscient.

So The only ways the Omniscient looses is if he's

1. No longer Omniscient
2. Faces an omnipotent who has omniscience.

So it's now a battle between an omnipotent and a normal guy, and therefore not the topic of discussion Then state the stips as the Omnipotent will choose not to grant himself Omniscience and choose not to remove Omniscience from the opponent.

We can choose to argue with the new stips in this thread or create another.

Originally posted by h1a8
Then state the stips as the Omnipotent will choose not to grant himself Omniscience and choose not to remove Omniscience from the opponent.

We can choose to argue with the new stips in this thread or create another.

The stips were already stated by the OP.
He stated an omnipotent without Omniscience vs Omniscience and asked which would be more useful.

The president of the United States has absolute power in the US. Someone who knows where all his skeletons are buried has a means of controlling that power. The right Knowledge is more useful than power because it allows you to control the power. All knowledge means you have all the right knowledge to control every power. Imagine an omnipotent knowing the dirty little secrets of every world leader on the planet. Every little thing they want to keep quite.

Imagine that samenperson knowing every exploitable secret from everyone alive and more.

Originally posted by beatboks
So you've proven the omnipotent needed omniscience to beat an Omniscient, or to remove the omniscience from the Omniscient.

So The only ways the Omniscient looses is if he's

1. No longer Omniscient
2. Faces an omnipotent who has omniscience.

So it's now a battle between an omnipotent and a normal guy, and therefore not the topic of discussion

But the omnipotent guy can do..... anything he wants. Including removing omniscience from his opponent, or giving himself omniscience.

If you want to restrict him, that shows the omnipotent is the better choice in a battle, as he needs to be handicapped to give the omniscient a chance.

Moreover, your tactics still assumes ability to back the knowledge up. He could know tomorrow's winning lottery numbers - useless if he lives 300 miles from the closest lottery shop and lacks internet etc. A specific example sure, but it's just to illustrate our point.

Originally posted by beatboks
The stips were already stated by the OP.
He stated an omnipotent without Omniscience vs Omniscience and asked which would be more useful.

The president of the United States has absolute power in the US. Someone who knows where all his skeletons are buried has a means of controlling that power. The right Knowledge is more useful than power because it allows you to control the power. All knowledge means you have all the right knowledge to control every power. Imagine an omnipotent knowing the dirty little secrets of every world leader on the planet. Every little thing they want to keep quite.

Imagine that samenperson knowing every exploitable secret from everyone alive and more.

OP doesn't say he can't remove it. Not does it state any prep time/prep resources, which you added yourself.

Match starts, the omnipotent guy just wishes that all the omniscient guy's plans stop working (a la Longshot).

Or he doesn't even need to remove it. Just wish that the omniscient has advanced dementia/Alzheimer's (so can't remember his knowledge, only that he knows he should know things - true torture).

Or wishes he's in a deep coma, unable to do anything or interact with anyone (and has always been in one since birth). Trapped in his own body, with all the knowledge of the universe.

Omniscient can transcend the moment so that any power used would turn against omnipotent. Caught in the act.

Originally posted by beatboks
Omniscience means you have unlimited prep. If your "all knowing" that knowledge includes everything that will ever happen. It means you knew about the fight as long before it transpires as you've had omniscience. No it doesn't because prep requires time, even if you knew how to make kryptonite (from the start to the end without having to check anything) in a lab to take out Superman, you'd still need a lab + time to create kryptonite. This is not a scenario this is a vs. thread. None of that is covered by omniscience.

Originally posted by LordGod
In a forum fight, what would be more useful?

Please explain to me how anyone is supposed to defeat someone who can erase you from existence with a mere thought. While the other might know everything that is, was and will happen, it won't save him from his fate.

wtf is the argument here?

an omniscient guy might know how to cure cancer. but they'd still need a lab, resources, supplies, funding, time, etc. to create the cure. then a way to distribute it to the population. knowledge alone doesnt give them the ability to create and alter scenarios just by willing it so.

whereas the omnipotent guy can just think "no cancer exists", and bam, everyone is cured instantly. he can do absolutely anything just by willing it so.

why is this so hard for people to understand?

The genie 🧞‍♂️ put in its bottle can be done ✔️ with Omniscience.

With enough prep it's possible the omniscient can become omnipotent.
Or at least beat the omnipotent.

Note: You guys were giving tactics for the omnipotent. The fact is that many people wouldn't think of those tactics. It all depends on WHO is omnipotent.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
wtf is the argument here?

an omniscient guy might know how to cure cancer. but they'd still need a lab, resources, supplies, funding, time, etc. to create the cure. then a way to distribute it to the population. knowledge alone doesnt give them the ability to create and alter scenarios just by willing it so.

whereas the omnipotent guy can just think "no cancer exists", and bam, everyone is cured instantly. he can do absolutely anything just by willing it so.

why is this so hard for people to understand?

In that case the omnipotent guy lacks the knowledge to walk. I mean, if the omniscient guy lacks power, which could be to lift something as light as a pencil, then the omnipotent guy has less intelligence than a gerbil. If we're looking at it the way that you are.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
No it doesn't because prep requires time, even if you knew how to make kryptonite (from the start to the end without having to check anything) in a lab to take out Superman, you'd still need a lab + time to create kryptonite. This is not a scenario this is a vs. thread. None of that is covered by omniscience.



Please explain to me how anyone is supposed to defeat someone who can erase you from existence with a mere thought. While the other might know everything that is, was and will happen, it won't save him from his fate.

Wouldn't that be the omniscient guy? Take some time to think about it. Knowledge is power and absolute knowledge is absolute power.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
No it doesn't because prep requires time, even if you knew how to make kryptonite (from the start to the end without having to check anything) in a lab to take out Superman, you'd still need a lab + time to create kryptonite. This is not a scenario this is a vs. thread. None of that is covered by omniscience.



Please explain to me how anyone is supposed to defeat someone who can erase you from existence with a mere thought. While the other might know everything that is, was and will happen, it won't save him from his fate. It also may be possible for the omniscient to become Omnipotent (or powerful enough to incapacitate the omnipotent) with a thought. It depends on the mechanics of the universe.

Why are you lot assuming prep time? OP doesn't say there is any.

Originally posted by Stoic
Wouldn't that be the omniscient guy? Take some time to think about it. Knowledge is power and absolute knowledge is absolute power. Would what be the omniscient guy?

Stoic = Littlefinger

https://i.ibb.co/NN8SQwm/cerseisaint.jpg

DarkSaint = Cersei

cersei is like my mom, complete ****ing psycho

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
OP doesn't say he can't remove it. Not does it state any prep time/prep resources, which you added yourself.

Match starts, the omnipotent guy just wishes that all the omniscient guy's plans stop working (a la Longshot).

Or he doesn't even need to remove it. Just wish that the omniscient has advanced dementia/Alzheimer's (so can't remember his knowledge, only that he knows he should know things - true torture).

Or wishes he's in a deep coma, unable to do anything or interact with anyone (and has always been in one since birth). Trapped in his own body, with all the knowledge of the universe.

Removing it before the battle means he doesn't have Omniscience and breaks OP stips.

For someone with Omniscience you would have to stipulate no prep was used, not the other way around. How could an omniscient not to be prepared for what they know is coming and always have?

Dementia/alzheimers, coma since birth are all also removing it since by your own discretion they either can't remember their knowledge (so not all knowing) or don't have conscious thought.

Your essentially proving my argument with every win scenario you present.

The thread is asking which is more useful if you don't have the other.
Without any other power Omniscience still allows you to control and manipulate those with any level of power. That makes it more useful.

Conversely omnipotence without Omniscience, would you even know how best to use it? Not knowing the ramifications of doing something in advance might mean doing something that achieves the opposite of your goal, or has a side effect you don't want.

Ironically while being the most useful, it would also be the worst one of the two to have. Imagine how dull existence would be if you already knew the outcome of everything. Surprises are most of the fun in life.

You would probably end up in a severe depression. Or entirely emotionless.

Originally posted by Stoic
In that case the omnipotent guy lacks the knowledge to walk. I mean, if the omniscient guy lacks power, which could be to lift something as light as a pencil, then the omnipotent guy has less intelligence than a gerbil. If we're looking at it the way that you are. the f*ck are you talking about?

Originally posted by beatboks
Removing it before the battle means he doesn't have Omniscience and breaks OP stips.

For someone with Omniscience you would have to stipulate no prep was used, not the other way around. How could an omniscient not to be prepared for what they know is coming and always have?

Dementia/alzheimers, coma since birth are all also removing it since by your own discretion they either can't remember their knowledge (so not all knowing) or don't have conscious thought.

Your essentially proving my argument with every win scenario you present.

The thread is asking which is more useful if you don't have the other.
Without any other power Omniscience still allows you to control and manipulate those with any level of power. That makes it more useful.

Conversely omnipotence without Omniscience, would you even know how best to use it? Not knowing the ramifications of doing something in advance might mean doing something that achieves the opposite of your goal, or has a side effect you don't want. Just to be objective I believe the OP wants this to be a forum fight.
So both characters will fight each other at the start of the bell.

I believe that with Omniscience one can become omnipotent if it is possible to achieve it by thought (like Lucy).

Lastly the intelligence of the omnipotent isn't suggested.
The tactics members here are suggesting are things many people wouldn't think of on the onset of a battle (even wishing someone out of existence).
What if the omniscient tricks the omnipotent? Say or do something that is guaranteed to distract them in order to beat them?

Originally posted by beatboks
Removing it before the battle means he doesn't have Omniscience and breaks OP stips.

For someone with Omniscience you would have to stipulate no prep was used, not the other way around. How could an omniscient not to be prepared for what they know is coming and always have?

Dementia/alzheimers, coma since birth are all also removing it since by your own discretion they either can't remember their knowledge (so not all knowing) or don't have conscious thought.

Your essentially proving my argument with every win scenario you present.

The thread is asking which is more useful if you don't have the other.
Without any other power Omniscience still allows you to control and manipulate those with any level of power. That makes it more useful.

Conversely omnipotence without Omniscience, would you even know how best to use it? Not knowing the ramifications of doing something in advance might mean doing something that achieves the opposite of your goal, or has a side effect you don't want.

OP doesn't have prep. You break it with your addition of it, proving my point that it's useless.

You would admit if the omniscient knows how to beat the omnipotent that that is right?