The recent discussions about Maul/Ezra in Rebels and the S3 trailer made me consider just exactly why is Maul so keen on making Ezra his apprentice, to the point where he put his plan to use the battle station on Malachor in jeopardy by attacking Kanan and Ashoka.
That made me recall his arc in TCW, where he also took Savage as an apprentice. When they have their brief fight, Savage claims there is no need for either of them to be "dominant" but Maul clings to the Rule of Two and insists he is the master. At the time I thought it was just Maul's pride, but it occurred to me that the whole reason for the Rule of Two is so that the Sith become stronger. Both Sith, master and apprentice.
Their relationship is not the nurturing relationship of Jedi and Padawan. The Sith Master trains his Apprentice but he also abuses him and only begrudgingly shares his secrets. But it's not just the apprentice that is supposed to grow stronger, the master is also supposed to be constantly mindful of his apprentice's growing power so that he doesn't become complacent. The master is supposed to constantly be pushing himself further and further because of the fear of dying at the hands of his apprentice.
The master and the apprentice enter into a sort of Darwinist feedback loop, both helping each other but also both constantly pushing themselves for fear of the other.
Viewed in that light, several things in both TCW and the greater EU make sense:
-why Sidious ordered Ventress killed. It's not that he feared Ventress or facing Dooku and Ventress in combat, it's that he feared her and Dooku would constantly 'feed' off each other and in time Dooku would grow powerful enough to challenge Sidious himself.
-why Plagueis is instantly on guard when Sidious mentions Maul for the first time. He is apprehensive of Sidious taking "an apprentice, in defiance of our partnership"? It's only after Sidious lulls him to sleep and tells him "shh, he's not a real apprentice Master "
-why Bane considered Krayt a heretic. It's not that Krayt wasn't powerful enough, it's that if his whole order obeyed him like a God-King, there would be no one to challenge him and thus Krayt would stop pushing himself. Wyyrlok's actions and betrayal confirm as much.
-in Shadow Conspiracy Maul thinks to himself that training Savage(among other things) has made him more powerful.
I make the contention that right until they finally met, Sidious was undecided on the Maul issue. I think that him taking Maul back was until that point a real possibility, and Sidious was mulling it.
What made Sidious decide? Savage's presence.
Watch the scene carefully. At first Sidious tells Maul he is impressed that he survived. I would say the tone is neutral/measured and that the statement is genuine, but Sidious is clearly sniffing Maul out as to what his intentions are. Then Maul swears his loyalty and Sidious is considering it("hmm..."). But then he glances towards Savage and he sees through the deception.
His tone becomes hostile and Sidious is clearly seething with anger. When he calls Maul a "rival" the word is almost a growl.
My belief is that it was Savage's presence that sealed Maul's fate. I think Sidious might have taken Maul back and had him become stronger as his apprentice was his original design until TPM. But having Maul become a rival, having Maul and Savage become stronger on their own, that was something he couldn't abide.
So what do you think? Would Sidious have taken Maul back into the fold in Maul hadn't taken Savage as an apprentice and began his Shadow Collective/Mandalorian shenanigans?
That's... actually really interesting. But on the other hand Sheev later goes on to say that he has been "replaced", indicating that even if he believed Maul's pledge of allegiance to be genuine, he still would have disposed of him.
I considered that, but my post was already too long.
My opinion is that, given the timing of that statement(right after Savage is killed), Sidious is saying it as a taunt and more importantly a punishment. He didn't say it at the beginning of the fight, he spat it into Maul's face at the very end, right before he beat the shit out of him.
What precedes that statement is this: "Remember, always two there are."
It's as if Sidious is saying "You've broken the rules. If you would have placed yourself at my feet things might have been different, but you had the temerity to become a rival so this is what you get!"
And before someone inevitably mentions Anakin(or Dooku), I'm not saying Sidious would have necessarily chosen Maul over Anakin. But Maul isn't like Dooku.
Remember that Maul is someone Sidious saw a lot of potential in early on and he is the one Sidious chose as his successor in the original canon, and unlike Anakin, Sidious actually invested a lot of time and effort into Maul's training. At the end of the TPM novel Sidious is seething with anger over Maul's loss.
And now the apprentice the Jedi robbed from him is suddenly back, and he has not only survived his bisection and fall, but is stronger than ever. That had to impress Sidious a lot.
I definitely think he would have let Maul and Anakin duke it out for the spot. He would probably put Qui-Gon's killer in front of Anakin and incite him to anger, and then whoever killed the other would be his apprentice.
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No, because Sidious knew Maul wasn't the submissive pup Dooku had become. Maul was always destined to shine as a master while Dooku and Vader were just his submissive watchdogs.
That's a feature not a bug. "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!
That's what an apprentice is supposed to do. Back in the early post-TPM EU Sidious only declares Maul a Sith Lord after Maul demonstrates a willingness to kill Sidious. And it's also why Sidious was constantly trying to snap Vader out of his funk and become more power hungry.
The point is that Maul was supposed to want to kill Sidious as his apprentice under the Rule of Two, not as a separate Sith Lord with his own apprentice.
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Darth Vader never reached these heights and what actually occurred was he even gave the emperor his son on a silver platter.
Vader allowed his own son to be his replacement but lucky for him Luke isn't the mentally weak pile of shit ahead see Vader is canonically known for. So you agree that Maul had his own agenda unlike Vader and Dooku who were more or less submissive pups. Vader didn't object as Luke tore into him nor did Dooku object when he ordered Anakin to execute him. Mental Weaklings.
No. Of course not. At this time Sidious has his eyes on a far greater prize, Anakin. Furthermore, Dooku has already been set up as the commander of the CIS for years now and he has been filling that role admirably enough. Replacing Dooku with Maul would be far more trouble than it’s worth.
Interesting theory. But I doubt he'd replace Dooku at that point in time, and was grooming Anakin for later.
But had Anakin and Savage not been around, and had Talzin not been a threat (that's a lot of IF's), then I'm sure Palpatine would consider replacing Dooku with Maul. He would probably get them both to prove who is the more worthy opponent (after TCW of course).
Also I like your idea of both Master and Apprentice growing stronger together. It explains why Rebels Maul is more useless than ever, when he's had plenty of time to grow stronger.
He could probably use Maul in tandom with Vader tbh. Sids could just lock him up in a cage and feed him Cocaine then let him loose on Jedi, sit back and watch the carnage
__________________ ''It is necessary that I should die for my people; but my spirit will rise from the grave and the world will know that I was right." The Almighty Führer
Sidious just drives him insane then takes over his mind then.
__________________ ''It is necessary that I should die for my people; but my spirit will rise from the grave and the world will know that I was right." The Almighty Führer
" 
Aug 9th, 2016 06:13 PM
Thanks Scribble!
