Registered: Aug 2016
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
A TOR wankers attempts at wanking
I just realized that Vitiate is actually more powerful than I thought before (and I held him as equal to ROTS Sidious as of the novel.) Keep in mind, as per Leland Chee's quotes about accolades being able to be questioned, this is all totally fair argument. For those that think I'm taking some quotes and then throwing others out based on whether they help my argument, I'm not. There's nothing that contradicts quotes establishing Kun as comparable to Sidious, but there ARE quotes contradicting Sidious' placement as #1. Hence why this argument can be made.
This is mostly via powerscaling, supported by quotes.
Vitiate, as of the novel/SWTOR, is stated as being the most powerful Force user the galaxy has ever seen.
"The Sith Emperor has mastered the dark side's power to become the most dominating Force-user the galaxy has ever seen."
-From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Codex Entry titled "The Emperor's Fallen Jedi (Knight).")
"The Sith Emperor is the most powerful Force-user who has ever existed. Unless this implacable enemy can be defeated, the Jedi Order is doomed."
-From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia)
This puts Vitiate above the likes of Ajuntap Pall, Marka Ragnos, and (more specifically) Exar Kun. Now let's see something interesting about Kun.
"There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing."
- Specter of the Past
Luke also cites his experiences with Sidious and Kun as being some of the most difficult things he ever had to do. While it doesn't directly confirm that the two (Sidious and Kun) are comparable, it does lend credence to the theory that they are indeed comparable.
"He thought about Kyp Durron, his own finest student; about Streen and Clighal and the rest of the tiny group in the jungles of Yavin. About Teneniel of Dathomir, and Cray and Nichos, and Jacen and Jaina and Anakin and all he'd gone through; the hellish forge of the dark side, the Emperor's secret fortress on Wayland and all that had happened there...Exar Kun, and the melted Holocron, Gantoris's ashes smoking on the stones of Yavin and the destruction of worlds.
Ben, he thought, would have had something to say, something healing...Yoda would have known how to deal with the wretched ruin of a friend's heart and life. The mightiest Jedi in the universe, he reflected bitterly--that he knew of, anyway - come the destroyer of the Sun Crusher, the slayer of evil, who'd defeated the recloned Emperor and the Sith Lord Exar Kun"
- Children of the Jedi
Luke, at the time he's facing Kun, is certain that he is not powerful enough to defeat both Kyp and Kun. Considering that Kyp at this point was only a Padawan, and thus really not incredibly powerful, it's safe to assume that the large bulk of the threat here comes from Kun. Further placing Kun above this version of Luke, and by extension, Vader. Meaning Kun one-shotted a Vader level opponent as a severely weakened ghost (as I stated before.) Further lending evidence that Kun in life is easily comparable to Sidious.
"Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail."
- Jedi Academy Trilogy: Dark Apprentice
Kun is compared, by Luke Skywalker, to Sidious. Meaning that Kun is comparable to ROTJ Sidious (there ya go Ethan, I've jumped to your way of thinking.) Now, if Kun is comparable to ROTJ Sidious, then that would mean Vitiate, as of the novel, is likely more powerful than that. Meaning novel Vitiate is at LEAST, ROTJ Sidious level. Considering all of this, I see no reason for SWTOR Vitiate to not be even more powerful than that, and I see no reason for Valkorion not to be more powerful than the likes of DE Sidious.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Alright, I'll play along. Where's Revan on your new scale?
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Registered: Aug 2016
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Believe it or not, this has nothing to do with Revan. This is just trying to break the Sidious>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other Sith mold that KMC has been stuck in since I got here.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Yes the fact that people on here almost deify him is a bit creepy, but I'd still like to know where you have Revan now.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
You mention in the OP that quotes specifically contradict Sidious being no. 1? I didn't see any in the OP. Which ones are you talking about? Because even TPM Sidious is canonically more powerful than SWTOR Vitiate, so your comparison is pretty flawed.
The Son's existence, I imagine. To be entirely honest, though, there's no direct quote placing the Son above Palpatine (that I can think of). If we're bringing the Ones into the picture, then I'd wager the Palpatine Brigade has a lot more ammunition since it could legitimately argument Palpatine is more powerful than the Son.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Feb 6th, 2017 at 06:24 AM
The Son is stated to have power beyond any Sith in the EU databank, and is repeatedly stated to be beyond the domain of mortal Force users. Though by Palpatine's prime he may not fit the definition of a mortal at all, since he becomes more of an energy being at that stage. You can also question whether DE Palpatine is truly a Sith, but I personally find that argument fairly similar to the one about Nihilus. I'm not sure if any sources explicitly mention the Reborn Emperor as being a Sith, though, as opposed to Nihilus. In any case, it's impossible to argue that any iteration of Palpatine except possibly DE above the Son.
But seeing as the Son isn't even a Sith, there's nothing affecting Palpatine's status as the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: The Proud Nation of Kekistan
Ant stop feeding the forum pure and utter cancer.
__________________
Shadilay my brothers and sisters. With any luck we will throw off the shackles of normie oppression. We have nothing to lose but our chains! Praise Kek!
THE MOTTO IS "IN KEK WE TRUST"
Those are all in-universe. They only apply up to his time, not after.
Plagueis' quotes are dismissable, but Palpatine's isn't. It's from a sourcebook — you're just in denial if you can't accept it. And given that Palpatine gained power upon Plagueis' death of magnitude sufficient to affect the entire galaxy once more, it's hardly implausible.
Feb 6th, 2017 06:08 AM
