KMC Forums

 
  REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Already a member? Log-in!
 
 
Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Literature & Expanded Universe » Numbers of the CIS army??


Numbers of the CIS army??
Started by: Eli Vanto

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Eli Vanto
Tactical Prodigy

Registered: Jan 2020
Location: Chiss Defense Fleet


 

Numbers of the CIS army??

I've seen a lot of different numbers thrown around. Is there anything definitive regarding the total amount of droids and whatnot that were in the CIS army as a whole?


__________________

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 11:41 AM
Click here to Send Eli Vanto a Private Message Find more posts by Eli Vanto Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

The numbers were all over the place in Legends.

Ranging from potentially "hundreds of millions":
https://i.imgur.com/apY6vix.jpg
-Republic Commando

To "quadrillions":
https://i.imgur.com/MpqWIUl.jpg
-Insider #84

To "quintillions":
https://i.imgur.com/0p9rl9N.jpg
-Incredible Cross-Sections: RotS

But I've always thought the latter numbers were a massive exaggeration. Quadrillions/quintillions of droids would have absolutely raped the entire galaxy like ants on a picnic basket. The Republic/Jedi wouldn't have been able to make a dent in an army that vast.



In canon, one of the only sources we have to go by is Dooku mentioning that his droid armies outnumbered the Republic's clones "100 to 1"(this would have obviously been toward the start of the Clone Wars):
https://i.imgur.com/ya8U1aa.jpg
-TCW S01E01

And since the Republic had 1.2m clones at the time, this would have given the CIS army a total of 120m droids.

By TCW S03, the Republic commissioned the creation of an additional 5 million clones. So even if you highball the Republic's numbers tremendously, and assume that no clones had been killed in the war up to that point(which obviously isn't accurate), then it would put the total number of clones at 6.2m... And it's highly unlikely that the Republic had ordered additional clones afterward, given that the 5 million they purchased put a massive strain on their finances and damn near bankrupted the entire Republic.

But anyway, even if we assume the Republic army consisted of 6.2m clones, and the CIS army still outnumbered them 100/1, then it would put the CIS army's numbers at 620m... As a very high-end estimate.


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 10th, 2020 at 04:06 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 12:39 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

^ To be fair Galan, remember that the entire war was a complete farce and Sidious handed the Republic intel at times for a victory. I recall a source, can't remember which I think it was one of the FF, that the CIS was deliberately held back in terms of its total forces.

Though I think quintillions is a bit of an exaggeration there, quadrillions probably makes more sense, since the Empire had tens of trillions of personnel and they had the largest military in history. So the CIS couldn't possibly have quintillions.

Well this as far as Legends goes, although also recall according to Legends, that the GAR weren't the only forces fighting, there were other allies that they had too that made up a large portion.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Last edited by Zenwolf on Jun 10th, 2020 at 12:45 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 12:41 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Total Warrior
Dark Councilor

Registered: Nov 2014
Location: Padova, Italy


 

Tbh 500m droids doesn't seem a lot, for a galaxy with trillions, maybe quadrillions of inahbitants. I'd say there should be at least a few trillion droids. Granted that SW has unfortunately never been very "rational" with numbers. Like in the ST the whole resistance had like 300 soldiers, like in a galaxy this big you only have hundreds of soldiers? That's as if you resistance movement in our world consisted of... 5 people lol, facing an army. The space battles in ep 9 and ep 3 are more accurate, with hundreds of ships


__________________
#èVinta

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 12:46 PM
Click here to Send Total Warrior a Private Message Find more posts by Total Warrior Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
^ To be fair Galan, remember that the entire war was a complete farce and Sidious handed the Republic intel at times for a victory. I recall a source, can't remember which I think it was one of the FF, that the CIS was deliberately held back in terms of its total forces.

Though I think quintillions is a bit of an exaggeration there, quadrillions probably makes more sense, since the Empire had tens of trillions of personnel and they had the largest military in history. So the CIS couldn't possibly have quintillions.

Well this as far as Legends goes, although also recall according to Legends, that the GAR weren't the only forces fighting, there were other allies that they had too that made up a large portion.
Quadrillions > trillions, so the CIS couldn't have had quadrillions of droids either. Quintillions is obviously WAY over the top... A military that vast would have been fully unbeatable(it would equate to ~1 billion droids for every inhabitable planet in the galaxy.)

Even quadrillions is an absurd number, though. That would still work out to something like 1 million droids for every single inhabitable planet in the galaxy.

It seems like the Legends CIS army had hundreds of millions(maybe billions) of droids -- as you said, the GE as a whole was made up of trillions of personnel and it was the largest military in history, so the CIS would have been inferior to that.

In canon, the CIS army was comprised of hundreds of millions of droids, which seems a little more realistic as far as the production process is concerned.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Total Warrior
Tbh 500m droids doesn't seem a lot, for a galaxy with trillions, maybe quadrillions of inahbitants. I'd say there should be at least a few trillion droids. Granted that SW has unfortunately never been very "rational" with numbers. Like in the ST the whole resistance had like 300 soldiers, like in a galaxy this big you only have hundreds of soldiers? That's as if you resistance movement in our world consisted of... 5 people lol, facing an army. The space battles in ep 9 and ep 3 are more accurate, with hundreds of ships
The numbers cited in the films have always been stupidly low, tbh.

The very fact that the Republic was ready to wage an all-out galactic war with only 1.2 million troops is retarded.


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 10th, 2020 at 02:23 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 02:18 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Quadrillions > trillions


Really?.....Well damn I feel dumb now lol. big grin Or maybe I was thinking Billions?.../Shrug, oh well if you can't laugh at yourself! Still trying to wake up I guess.

Of course the tens of trillions just applies to Imperial Army, the Navy has trillions and Stormtrooper Corps is undetermined. So adding all that together is still pretty high.

Though other sources do paint the Empire as having limitless resources/reach and all that, so regardless yeah, the Empire would be bigger anyway. The Rebellion CG is the only source I've seen with a hard number or around there.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Last edited by Zenwolf on Jun 10th, 2020 at 02:42 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 02:33 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Eli Vanto
Tactical Prodigy

Registered: Jan 2020
Location: Chiss Defense Fleet


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
In canon, the CIS army was comprised of hundreds of millions of droids, which seems a little more realistic as far as the production process is concerned.
What makes you say that? AOTC showed the droids being built at one of the factories, and it seemed like they were cranking out HUGE numbers.


__________________

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 02:45 PM
Click here to Send Eli Vanto a Private Message Find more posts by Eli Vanto Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

For the CIS to manufacture 1 quadrillion droids over the course of the Clone Wars, it means they'd have to produce upwards of 900 BILLION droids every single day -- or roughly 37.5 BILLION droids per hour -- or roughly 1.5 BILLION droids per minute. Every minute. For 3 years straight.

To produce 1 quintillion droids, they'd have to manufacture upwards of 900 TRILLION droids every single day -- or roughly 37.5 TRILLION droids per hour -- or roughly 1.5 TRILLION droids per minute. Every minute. For 3 years straight.

Then of course those numbers would at least double, considering the quotes state "quadrillionS"(plural) and/or "quintillionS"(plural).


Hard to believe their production factories had that kind of output capability, along with the resources to fuel it.


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 10th, 2020 at 03:27 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 03:11 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
For the CIS to manufacture 1 quadrillion droids over the course of the Clone Wars, it means they'd have to produce upwards of 900 BILLION droids every single day -- or roughly 37.5 BILLION droids per hour -- or roughly 1.5 BILLION droids per minute. Every minute. For 3 years straight.

To produce 1 quintillion droids, they'd have to manufacture upwards of 900 TRILLION droids every single day -- or roughly 37.5 TRILLION droids per hour -- or roughly 1.5 TRILLION droids per minute. Every minute. For 3 years straight.

Then of course those numbers would at least double, considering the quotes state "quadrillionS"(plural) and/or "quintillionS"(plural).


Hard to believe their production factories had that kind of output capability, along with the resources to fuel it.


I mean, resources in SW never seem to really be much of a thought lol. Just look at the ST with Starkiller base then with Sidious' new faction being able to produce all those Star Destroyers. No one in the galaxy noticed any of that with resources dropping....apparently.

Legends, the GE was able to build 2 Death Stars along with several other superweapons(Suncrusher, World Desvestators etc) , fund various projects IE: TIE Hunter/Phantom/Aggressor, superlaser equipped ISDs, superlaser equipped SSDs and like a whole bunch of other stuff, while ontop of maintaining/expanding their Navy/keeping their men fed/funded too.

Resources are just...there and used.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 03:35 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Right.

And I mean, we know the CIS didn't have those kind of numbers(even in Legends), because that would have made it a far greater military than the GE... Which it factually was not.

I was just explaining to Eli why producing hundreds of millions(maybe billions) of droids seems far more realistic than producing quadrillions or quintillions of them.


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 03:41 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Right.

And I mean, we know the CIS didn't have those kind of numbers(even in Legends), because that would have made it a far greater military than the GE... Which it factually was not.

I was just explaining to Eli why producing hundreds of millions(maybe billions) of droids seems far more realistic than producing quadrillions or quintillions of them.


Billions seem better than hundreds of millions, the galaxy is huge. So even if we don't go with quadrillions or quintillions, billions seem fitting.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 03:45 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

I agree. Billions of droids seems fitting, and also more attainable for the CIS to manufacture.

Did Legends clarify how many military personnel the Republic had during TCW?


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 03:49 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
I agree. Billions of droids seems fitting, and also more attainable for the CIS to manufacture.

Did Legends clarify how many military personnel the Republic had during TCW?


In total? Not sure, don't think so. There was just the GAR and then some other forces that they had which helped with planetary fighting. But it's been awhile since I've looked through any kind of numbers.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 04:05 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

I was just curious because in canon the Republic only had a total of 6.2 million clones manufactured during TCW.

Where Legends is concerned, I know it was stated in Republic Commando that the GAR had increased to "three million men" about one year after AotC, but I couldn't remember if the numbers were stated to have grown significantly after that..?


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 04:16 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007


Where Legends is concerned, I know it was stated in Republic Commando that the GAR had increased to "three million men" about one year after AotC, but I couldn't remember if the numbers were stated to have grown significantly after that..?


Alright so found something, according to the Essential Guide to Warfare, Yoda went with 200k Clones to Geonosis, later on 1 million was ready for deployment soon after the Geonosis battle which was part of the 3 million Clones of the initial order.

The Sector Armies of which there were 20 had 150k Clones and this number growing dramatically as Clones were grown.

quote:


The Republic armed forces were divided into 20 Sector Armies, the Republic's armies contained both clones and non-clone units. In the first weeks of the war, the GAR numbered the equivalent of just 2 Corps. But soon 3 million troops were ready, and each standard Sector Army numbered nearly 150,000 clone troopers, a number that grew dramatically as more clones were grown and entered the war.

- Essential Guide to Warfare


Now if the numbers grew dramatically, it's probably going to be at least another 3 million if Kamino can grow that many without really needing to push for it.

Taking into account the 20 Sector Armies ontop of the GAR, total Republic Forces while probably not reaching to CIS numbers, is most likely going to be much bigger than 6 million. In fact I'm recalling that the GAR did have other cloning facilities, not just Kamino.

So really if Kamino can put out 3 million clones as an initial order before the war even really gets going, pushing into dramatic, they'll probably be able to match another 3 million or higher, along with the other cloning facilities in the galaxy + whatever Sector Army personnel.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Last edited by Zenwolf on Jun 10th, 2020 at 04:49 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 04:47 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

Good stuff.

So I take it the Kaminoans also sped up the 'growing' process for clones in Legends? Because as of AotC, they had a growth rate 2x that of a normal human, so it still took them about 10 years to become combat ready.


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 04:56 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
Good stuff.

So I take it the Kaminoans also sped up the 'growing' process for clones in Legends? Because as of AotC, they had a growth rate 2x that of a normal human, so it still took them about 10 years to become combat ready.


I would think so since the Clone Wars only lasted what....3 years? I'm guessing that 10 years was more due to figuring everything out as far as training, supplies, vehicles etc rather than just growing the clones, thus so the clones could be combat ready with all their stuff. When all that other stuff was good, the cloning process probably wasn't nearly as difficult/long.

On a note, does the new Canon even mention other Republic forces? Cause from what TCW goes, it seems like the GAR is the Repulic's only army which makes the whole Clone Wars seem really...small, if the only have a whooping 6 million.

Legends having the GAR + Sector Armies, makes the Clone Wars seem much bigger.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Last edited by Zenwolf on Jun 10th, 2020 at 05:19 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 05:16 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Galan007
|Quantum Observer|

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Mars, 1985


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Zenwolf
On a note, does the new Canon even mention other Republic forces? Cause from what TCW goes, it seems like the GAR is the Repulic's only army which makes the whole Clone Wars seem really...small, if the only have a whooping 6 million
During TCW, Padme mentioned other Republic forces aside from just the clone army:
"I support our brave soldiers. Whether they come from the cloning facilities on Kamino, or from the thousands of worlds loyal to the Republic."

We just didn't see much of those 'other guys' at all.


__________________


"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 05:48 PM
Click here to Send Galan007 a Private Message Find more posts by Galan007 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
During TCW, Padme mentioned other Republic forces aside from just the clone army:
"I support our brave soldiers. Whether they come from the cloning facilities on Kamino, or from the thousands of worlds loyal to the Republic."

We just didn't see much of those 'other guys' at all.


Ah fair enough.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 06:01 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Zenwolf
Senior Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: United States


 

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Galan007
During TCW, Padme mentioned other Republic forces aside from just the clone army:
"I support our brave soldiers. Whether they come from the cloning facilities on Kamino, or from the thousands of worlds loyal to the Republic."

We just didn't see much of those 'other guys' at all.


Although on a note, isn't the galaxy much smaller in the New Canon than the old?

From what I'm seeing of the New Canon Galaxy..

It's only 100k light years in size with only 3.2 million star systems.

Compared to the old Canon which is..

120k LY across with 3.2 billion star systems. Well this just being habitated, the total number of star systems is actually 180 billion, with 7.1 billion habitable stars.


__________________
"Commence primary ignition."

Last edited by Zenwolf on Jun 10th, 2020 at 09:02 PM

Old Post Jun 10th, 2020 08:57 PM
Click here to Send Zenwolf a Private Message Find more posts by Zenwolf Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 10:01 AM.
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< Contact Us - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Forum powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.