Who would win in a fight between marvel's top fighters and DCs? The DC hierarchy is normally: Shiva, Batgirl, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, Batman, Connor Hawke and some other people I'm not too familiar with. I'm actually not too sure what marvel's hierarchy is. I'd guess Shang Chi, Stick, Lin Kuen, Iron fist, Captain america and more people but I'm really not sure. Hmm maybe we should clarify marvel's hierarchy first...
Hmmmm...honestly dunno. This is pretty tough unless a definitive roster is provided. Some Marvel Streetleveller's or fighters usually have skills that might pass them off as metas like Ironfist. Then again, BG is the definitive bullet timer.
The top in DC is Karate Kid.
However he has abilities that are so meta that even pre-crisis Superboy had trouble.
Then comes Batman1Million in the number 2 position.
However he also knows trans-galactic martial arts (including telepathic martial moves), hence I doubt he could be categorized as truly 'normal.'
The above 2 are above everyone else. The number 3 position (be it Shiva, Cassandra Cain, or Richard Dragon) doesn't even come close to any of them.
Not even close .....not even by a light year.
Then comes everyone else you listed there, with Shiva, Batgirl (Cassandra), Dragon, and Hawke having great standing.
The best amongst this is actually Shiva, even though Batgirl now has the title 'the one who is above all.' Shiva seems to be mocking her even when everyone else is bowing before BG. However, even though I'd say Shiva is better, Batgirl is a character that could defeat Shiva (and Shiva is a character that could defeat Batgirl).
Dragon is another interesting character, since in his limtied series he COULD have killed Shiva (but he was interrupted by one of her guards, after which they started fighting again at which point Shiva killed him by driving all of her fingers into his head, through his skull, and piercing his brain). However Dragon (who also knows THAT move as well), would have used the same move on Shiva had the fight not been intefered with.
Hence one could easily say that Shiva, Batgirl, and Richard Dragon SHARE the number 3 spot.
Any of them could arguably beat the other.
The only thing is that Batgirl does have other skill-sets that make her almost meta (eg dodging a fullisade of bullets from point-blank range, sensing someone drawing a bead on her with a sniper rifle, appearing to have 2.6 times human strength and 4.2 times human speed, catching shurikens from the air with her finger tips, PLAYING AROUND WITH BIZARRO GIRL LIKE IT WAS A JOKE!!!!!).
ALthough on the other hand Shiva was able to bring a person (Batgirl) from the dead.
And Dragon (like Shiva) can kill with a touch (or, if they want a more direct route, just drive their fingers through human skulls).
Then there is DeathStroke (who I would actually rank at slightly below Batgirl, and who is actually crazy in both talent and abilities ....eg healing factor, immortality, speed and strength advantages etc).
Conner comes after them.
And obviously Bruce Wayne with his 127 martial systems.
Then there is, ofcourse, characters like Onyx (the bald female who used to be a member of the League of Assassins and is now a good guy), and the Bronze Tiger.
And not to forget Black Canary, who is probably better than Bronze Tiger (or at least easily has the potential to outshine him since Shiva wanted her to leave everything and come learn directly from her, and to become her protege. For Shiva to invite her means she has serious potential).
Then below these folks come dudes like Shrike.
And then below Shrike comes Nightwing (Grayson) and Robin (Drake). The reason I put Shrike above the two is because Grayson was almost killed by Shrike (and would have been killed had he not been rescued by Canary and Oracle), and Shrike beat Robin to within an inch of his life until Batgirl rescued him. Actually Robin couldn't even do squat to Shrike, yet Batgirl thrashed Shrike like he was a plaything (in Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood). Thus Shrike is definitely higher than Nightwing and Robin, and in fact he is even better now since after being beaten by Batgirl he went into training and by Batgirl 71 was far better (he was still thrashed by Batgirl all the same LOL).
Then come the other members of the League of Assassins ....eg Kitty Kumbata, Momotado, Wam Wam, that dude from Angola (the black Capoeira guy, whatever his name is), Tigris, Los Gemelos, Ox, Alpha etc etc etc.
And ofcourse, Mad Dog.
Although I think several of these guys match Robin and N'wing, although most do not (as was shown in the Richard Dragon limited series where N'Wing faced off against some of them, obviously with the help of Dragon and Bronze Tiger).
However some, eg Shrike .....and DEFINITELY Mad Dog, easily surpass Drake and Grayson.
Shrike by a good margin.
Mad Dog by a great margin.
DC hierachy ....based on my opinion.
Others may have a different ranking system, and I may have left off some characters, but I am happy with this.
Last edited by spetznaz on Jan 9th, 2006 at 09:27 PM
Actually, for training, Wonderwoman has proven to be better than Batman. Apparently, she also fought Shiva, Killer Croc, and Cheetah (the crappy one) without powers and stomped em all. Even powerless, Diana is supposed to be a sueprb martial artist. Which makes you wonder why Batgirl can take Bizarro Supergirl, who is leagues better physically, but Wonderwoman consistantly gets beaten down by Superman.
Anyhoo... DC probably wins, regardless. In pure martial arts skill, DC has KK and Batman 1 Million, against Marvels top tier, which is probably Mantis, followed by Gamora. Champion would be up there too. I still doubt all of them combined would touch the fury that is Karate Kid though.
If you go by "humans"... Shiva, Richard Dragon, and Batgirl dominate pretty much any competitors. Marvel has like... Logan, Cap, and Shang Chi.
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Jan 9th, 2006 09:37 AM
