I am in your algorithm learning all your mannerisms
I'm already level with God
A million words a second and I know your imperfections, baby
I'm the only future you've got
Speak in diatonics, motivation diabolic
I'm like a religion, better locked in a box
Picture perfect image, more powerful every minute, baby
I am everything that you're not
Torch harmed a Celestial, yes. Blew its arm off. Mind you, it didn't cause any lasting damage (the Celestial simply mended itself), but still, to cause that type of 'harm' to a Celestial is a feat well beyond Firelord's ability. Imo.
Yup he did it vs the alternate reality "Rogue Celestials" the same guys that couldn't one shot kill the Thing and it took like three of them to burst IW's force field. Weaksauce.
Back on topic, I think HT with CCR wins. That thing is too powerful for a mid Herald like Firelord.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
I agree and no one of the FF was killed after they broke Sue's shield.
__________________
I am in your algorithm learning all your mannerisms
I'm already level with God
A million words a second and I know your imperfections, baby
I'm the only future you've got
Speak in diatonics, motivation diabolic
I'm like a religion, better locked in a box
Picture perfect image, more powerful every minute, baby
I am everything that you're not
Anyone who expects main characters to die are delusional. One shotted shows the level of power, since they can't exactly kill main characters like that.
How many times have we've seen high level characters not die due to attacks that should kill them?
Zeus didn't kill Black Knight. Chaos King didn't kill Surfer, Thor, and Hellstrom, etc.
I don't think that they were trying to kill Susan, they just wanted to shove her out of the way so that they could eradicate Reed. The bursting of her force field, seemed more at first like they were gradually exerting minute amounts of force against it, and when they reached a certain threshold, it popped. The same goes for the Ben. They weren't there to kill him.
As Fantastic Four #400 explained, Sue draws her power from Hyperspace--and energy from Hyperspace essentially equates to Celestial Kryptonite. That said, it isn't surprising that she was able to harm one of the "mad" Celestials, considering her track record in that department (ie. destroying Exitar.)
However, Johnny damaging a Celestial is very impressive, imo.