I was thinking this too. I was also thinking Doc could toss them up into space, or deliver one square, fatal hit, if he could grab ahold of them, but I think HFH are both too fast, and he’s not trained enough to make it happen with both there
Dang that’s crazy. How does someone who’s supposed to have the strength and durability of Joe Fixit get punked so hard? I get why Thing would have a slight edge over Doc, but that may even constitute as jobbing
Modern Marvel hates the character that's why. Classic Samson has been in a 6 hour all out fight vs Savage Hulk. He got into a brief tussle with Wonderman/Namor/Iron Man/ and Herc and threw them off him when they dogpiled him.
He's lifted a building off the floor and he can super jump like the Hulk (but not as high or far). He has a stronger, feral form that Marvel just forgot about. It was also mentioned that he held back a lot in his fights over the years and that's why he would get humiliated by people he should have beaten or done better against.
He was an interesting character but Marvel destroyed him.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
That’s my problem I’m def more well-versed in the older stuff so that’s why some stuff is confusing for me but this makes a lot of sense. He used to be a cool character. In addition to having him get slapped around by metas now, he also seems to straight die a lot too, more than your average Marvel character at least lol
I mean the feats Zop just mentioned alone should be more than enough to handle HFH, but over time they def have gotten amps/higher showings, and Doc has gotten the opposite
Even before Civil War, Cage was able to one shot the Rhino and Iron Clad. He has beaten an mind-controlled Wrecker solo and knocked down an enormous Living Monolith. He has gone up against the Hulk a couple of times and held his own. While possessed he clobbered the Thing. Defeated Power Man Erik Josten when he had Wonder Man like powers. Cage's durability allows him to hang with and outright defeat bricks stronger than him. That plus Bendis.
Samson main problem is that he can't fight. Has he ever had any training? One of the worst things you can be in comics is an unskilled brick. Those feats mention for Samson are definitely his higher end and not his average.
I mean, some of those Cage feats have their own circumstances (Iron Clad is even more feat-less than Samnson, Wrecker was confused at the time, etc.), but I hear you. I’m one of the first to cape for Cage, and your point about “unskilled bricks” is very well-taken. I would also just argue that those early Samson feats are still reflective of what he is supposed to be powerset wise, and that he doesn’t necessarily have enough low-end showings (besides dying like 6 times) to make the high ones straight up outliers. All that said, y’all have convinced me that HFH takes the majority here
Those Cage feats show that he does consistently possess the striking power and durability to fight evenly with and even beat bricks who are stronger than him. Among other things he made Namor bleed underwater and beat Orka. He has done surprisingly well against class 70 + bricks.
Samson knocking back Namor and a couple of avengers off him also had circumstances. Samson even admitted that the group was tired from trying to stop the Hulk. He also attacked them unexpectedly. Even though the encounter with brief, that certainly isn't his normal portrayal of strength.
I mean I already gave it to you, but since we’re still talking Samson loses here, but pre-Civil War Cage still soundly loses to classic Samson 1on1. I read a lot of old Cage stuff and he often said if he takes more than one blow from someone Wrecking Crew status, then he’s done. His consistency has slowly developed over time. Whereas Samson’s 6-hour stalemate with Savage Hulk was not supposed to be a fluke but rather a setting for his baseline. I actually like both characters a lot. What’s interesting to me is how they both so clearly demonstrate that phenom Stilt mentioned about how characters’ popularity overtime directly impact feats and power-sets. If this fight took place in the 70s, Samson one-shots them both, but I agree with you he loses here
But his fight with Savage Hulk wasn't his baseline, it's an outlier. For instance he had a tougher time with the Rhino than with what Luke had. The popular phenomenon isn't something new. My point is that simply we can't say Luke feats had context and not point out the same for Samson.
Sure you can take characters when they are weaker (like 50 years ago) so they would lose. That would be reverse prepman territory.
So I wasn't really disagreeing with you. Just pointing out that Samson bursting free from Namor, Ironman, Hercules, & Wonderman is far for his normal level.
KMC Community Forums
Apr 23rd, 2020 06:27 AM
now I can make a decision! 
