So I got into a discussion today and I was pretty darn sure that during the Spanish conquest/absorption of the New World the Incan culture got stepped on. I know that the Incan civilization got demolished, but I was wondering what happened with the religion/language. I thought that the Conquistadors had deliberately set out to burn Incan texts. I believed that the Catholic Church condoned this behavior, yet now I am unable to find a source linking the Church to the destruction of the Incan language and writing system.
Was I wrong? This is history and religion so I thought it belongs here. Any link to a reputable source would prove me right, but it seems like this isn't a question of fact, but of degree. How much influence (if any) did the Catholic Church have on the events of the first contacts between Spaniards and Native Americans?
The Catholic Church banned slavery of the indigenous American peoples... in the papal bull Sublimus Dei...the Jesuit Order also tried to protect people from the harm some of the Spanish were causing...
On the other hand I think the slavery bull was eventually revoked and religious priests/bishops went about doing a fair bit of "damage" to the indigenous culture... but hey, gotta save souls right?
(That last bit was a joke, I just know that the Church directly influenced/did some good but it wasn't shy of /causing from some of the so called bad things either.)
Here's a newslink from '07. The Pope said that the indigenous peoples of south america had been secretly longing to become Christian. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6656081.stm Though, as often with the Pope he says something and people take it totally wrongly- change the words around and try to give it new meaning...like they did with the "gays are more harmful than the destruction of the rainforest" thing.
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Last edited by Grand-Moff-Gav on Jan 18th, 2009 at 06:36 AM
Looks like I was (partly) mistaken- the book burning/destruction was aimed at the Aztecs. The Incans didn't have a written language. (Or, at least, there isn't much proof of a writing system.)
So if the Catholic Church thought that the indigenous people 'wanted' to be converted, does that eliminate any guilt at the harsh treatment of the natives? Looking at it from their (your?) perspective, did bringing people to Christ make it okay to hurt them? (As long as the hurting brought them into the church...)
Well they certinaly had no problem taking all their gold.
I don't know as much about the Inca as I do the Aztec, but I assume there were some similarities. The Aztec believed that gold should be made into artwork to express its beauty. They often inlaid it with gems and other precious materials. THe Spanish litterally pried out all the jewels and melted down teh gold into bars (which probably confused the hell out of the Aztecs) and shipped it back to the Old world. I believe a lot of it ended up in the bottomless coffers of the Vatican
As a hispanic catholic, i kinda grew knowing a few things about the church and the meso americans from researching my cultures history and listening to my family..
when the conquistadors arrived in the meso americas they did steal gold to sent back to spain and enslaved the aztec after they were defeated and or tortured them by cutting there feet and feeding them to their dogs.. all this accurred with permission of the priest and monks that accompanied them into the americas, their view was that they werent even human but savages who were all cannibals... by torturing them they would be purged of their sins through penance.some of the natives were tortured for 12 to 13 days for each apostle and the last number was seen as sacred i think for jesus christ.
pretty sure the churches knew and had given them permission for "conversion." letters were sent to the catholic church to allow certain things, not sure what they said. long time since i studied this.. i know the church gave permission to destroy all scriptures and idols of false gods and to teach them the civilized tongue of its time..
monasteries were set up to teach the aztecs and natives around mexico a spaniard education.. this was done by killing those who resisted and punishing those who were caught reading, writing, speaking or carrying aztec scriptures....
alot of the aztec legends and scriptures that survived today are reproductions of the original written down by quetzacotl priest by memoryand hidding them by burial from the spaniards..
the spaniard priest/monk of the time by permission of the church were allowed and ordered to find and destroy everything that had to do with quetzacotl/ kulkul because of the similarities to some one else.
his appearance and legends mirrored someone and many felt it was blasphemy..
slender native holy man with a beard who preached peace and love..
born from a women by divine means.. the chief sun god spoke to the women and inpregnated her she was a virgin.. when born he possessed vast knowledge and power.. he died tied to the crooked tree to keep his father from restarted the world again.. he promised that he would return there are numerous legends and stories of kulkul quetzacotl.
this type of behavior survived to the late 1800's even now their is still many monasteries in mexico that have survived in small towns where the residents are of native descent and still have their own dialect. many of these small towns do not like the church.. in turn many modern mexicans who are spanish speaking and are now mixed with spaniard blood do not like the natives who still live in mexico, their is open racism against them.
We should have suppressed the Aztec religion beyond all comprehension so people like you couldn't whine about how your not allowed to sacrifice people any more.
Comme Ci, Comme Ça. I was pointing out that there if someone put any thought into it the idea that a very Jesus like figure existed on the other side of the planet, across an ocean with no contact from Christians it's hardly something that missionaries would want to suppress. In fact, to me it seems like something they would want to advertise.
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
A juvenal prank.
Your story of Quetzalcoatl (which does match up with the Mormon story doesn't it? Funny that...) seems to be a little too similar to Jesus' to be coincidence.
So either Jesus was in America and told the Aztecs of what was going on, like Mormons believe or the Catholic and Spanish missionaries preaching about Jesus was incorporated by the indigenous peoples into their legends about Quetzalcoatl.
What one do you chose to believe?
There is another option mind you...you totally made that up or heard it somewhere and now believe it even though there is no evidence that any of the Aztecs believe it.
how about neither because some of the stones and pyramids survived with glyphs of the stories all preceding jesus birth and the appearance of the spanish,, :P
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Jan 18th, 2009 04:24 AM
