Evolution vs Creation

Let's pretend this is still a debate, lol... because unfortunately far too many people still don't look honestly at the evidence. I think our species is doomed unless we realize our true origins and start making sense of the universe and our place in it. If we don't we're going to continue to kill each other (at worst) and delude ourselves (at best) over which book was written by God.

Creationism has a lot of things to answer for to be a viable scientific theory. Just to name a few...

1. Vestigial Structures like the appendix in humans and hip bones in whales and dolphins (not very "intelligently designed"😉 (see video 1 below)

2. Starlight (I even had a Bible teacher in high school mention this as a baffling piece of evidence for Christians)

3. Fossil Record (less complex organisms deeper in the record, more complex more recent in the fossil record - no humans with dinosaurs, no rabbits in the Precambrian era, etc)

4. Chromosome 2 (evidence of a fusion, pretty conclusive for our relation to apes) (See video 3 below)

5. Dover, Pennsylvania area School district. Creationism did not hold up in court. (See video: Judgement Day: Intelligent Design On Trial (NOVA)

A couple really good introductory videos (the first is pretty short)...

YouTube video

YouTube video

YouTube video

Oh, and here are a few really good videos debunking Creationists, showing how dishonest and/or willfully ignorant they are about the evidence. It's deceptive and wrong...

Debunking Creationists - Dr. Ben Carson
Debunking Creationists - Dr. Jason Lisle
Debunking Creationists - Alan Horvath
Debunking Creationists - Jerry Bergman

That should be enough to keep anyone interested busy for a while... heh..

I mean most of the Christians I know believe God created the universe but also believe in evolution and not that God created humans as we are.

As my own personal Christian stance goes if I believe God is the creator of the universe then I believe scientific law is in a sense his direct word, so rejecting scientific fact would be blasphemous from that perspective.

This thread is about Evolution vs Creation, not Evolution vs Christians.

Well the point I'm making is that the two aren't necessarily diametrically opposed unless you're speaking of a particular stance of creationism.

I think the OP is going against the particular stance of creationism

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I mean most of the Christians I know believe God created the universe but also believe in evolution and not that God created humans as we are.

That's great. But unfortunately there are still many, many, many Christians who think the earth is 6,000 years old or so using the brilliant method of counting back all the genealogies in the Bible. It doesn't matter what evidence there is to the contrary. It's true because it simply has to be, because the Bible is the infallible Word of God!

🙄

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well the point I'm making is that the two aren't necessarily diametrically opposed unless you're speaking of a particular stance of creationism.

...which the OP was.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I think our species is doomed unless we realize our true origins

So just how have you managed to come to "terms" with your origin being that you came from a inert wad of snot?

What EXACTLY would be said persons PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE!?

Right next to the yellow mustard stain on the cosmic hanky?

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]So just how have you managed to come to "terms" with your origin being that you came from a inert wad of snot? [/B]

I worship the Great Cosmic Snot Monster. Duh. And so do you apparently, judging by your green snot-colored font.

Really? That is all you got? Oh wait. You had NOTHING to start with so...I guess that makes sense.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]Really? That is all you got? Oh wait. You had NOTHING to start with so...I guess that makes sense. [/B]

Well, since you're too big of a blind idiot to infer what I'm talking about I'll spell it out for you...

Our place in the universe is on a ball of rock spinning around a ball of fire and we were fortunate enough to find ourselves here. It's a gift. And it's up to us to take control of our evolution instead of killing ourselves off by destroying the planet and killing each other over land, greed, and ideological differences.

We were not placed here by some anthropomorphic deity (as many people believe) that can just fix everything (in this life or the next) after we screw it all up.

Get it?

You can't call it " a gift" that would imply that it was GIVEN to us by someone or thing. At Best all it is is pure dumb luck. Happenstance, almost more of a joke. There is no MEANING to anything. On we can PRETEND that what we do as either or both individuals or a species has some kind of meaning but in the long run, it don't mean a thing at all.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Well the point I'm making is that the two aren't necessarily diametrically opposed unless you're speaking of a particular stance of creationism.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
...which the OP was.

Let him speak... what is wrong with him pointing that out?

But my question to Emperor, though, is this...

Since you clearly welcome open criticism to the Bible and everything that typical fundamental Christianity involves, and you obviously recognize that the Bible has been required to go through some serious reformations and rationalizations to make sense of its narrow-minded outlook (it's stance on slavery and primitive understanding of creation, etc) then what special pedestal does the Bible belong on? Why not just look at it like any other old piece of literature?

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]You can't call it " a gift" that would imply that it was GIVEN to us by someone or thing. At Best all it is is pure dumb luck. Happenstance, almost more of a joke. There is no MEANING to anything. On we can PRETEND that what we do as either or both individuals or a species has some kind of meaning but in the long run, it don't mean a thing at all. [/B]

It means what we make it mean.

Right now it means killing each other over land, greed, and ideological differences in certain parts of the world.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
It means what we make it mean.

Right now it means killing each other over land, greed, and ideological differences in certain parts of the world.

You would be happier if they were doing it to push The Evolution Theory instead?

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]You would be happier if they were doing it to push The Evolution Theory instead? [/B]

Whut?

You know like in the South Park Episode where everybody in the future "worshiped" science and then fought and killed each other over petty differences.

Originally posted by Flyattractor
[b]You know like in the South Park Episode where everybody in the future "worshiped" science and then fought and killed each other over petty differences.

[/B]

Yeah, I know the episode. It's funny. Especially the giant otters eating things on their tummies. 😂

But it's not really true to reality. The science community is actually a very collaborative one, even worldwide. They obviously don't care about petty things like what to name the "Atheist Movement." And the things they do care about, which are scientific discoveries, they're terrified of being wrong, so they're always passing ideas on to more and more specialized fields of study. It's a very anti-dogmatic system. When was the last time we heard a scientist announce that he wants to kill non-scientists? Never. Whereas we've heard it non-stop from Muslims and even some particularly wacky (and non-reformed) Christians. Scientists don't kill people.. lol

What I never understood about the religious people who argue against evolution is that if they believe in God and feel he is all powerful then why does evolution bother them? Since God could have purposely created a universe that gives life forms a chance to evolve.

Originally posted by Surtur
What I never understood about the religious people who argue against evolution is that if they believe in God and feel he is all powerful then why does evolution bother them? Since God could have purposely created a universe that gives life forms a chance to evolve.