I do not know. It is the resurrection of classical debatecharacters all over again Kain, Pyron, Jedah, Sephiroth. Good old gang.
I think most agreed that our Dark Titan in question was more than competent enough to deal with Pyron. Which is my thought exactly in the matter. Jedah I know of, but for the same reason that I do not think Kain can not beat Pyron by attacking the soul, I do not think Jedah can win by going for Pyrons soul.
He is of course not a necessary combatant since the planet will probably be destroyed very early in the fight. So it comes down to a fight between the two (Or three depending on who Nosgoth is) that can maneuver and fight in space. While Jedah is an impressive guy, he is not quite the outer space combatant. I do not think he can fly in any way, so he would just be floating there. Assuming of course that the destruction of the planet did not kill him.
So this fight would be :Pyron and Nosgoth Vs. Dark Titan: or :Pyron Vs. Dark Titan:
If Nosgoth is a time manipulator, he probably wins. If not, I would be so bold as to say Dark Titan wins.
Nosogoth is basically the entire LOK universe, including Kain, Sargeras is the only interesting being here, I think Pyron and the combined might of Nosgoth and Jedah could destroy Sargeras. In pure power I think Pyron>Old God easily
Last edited by Burning thought on Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:18 PM
I dont know, depends on the overall weight of the portal but he is by no means anywhere near the size of Pyron, Pyrons size alone is over a Gas giant size or so jaxx would say, his physical power would overpower Sargerus easily
problem with Sarg he has very few feats that describe his speciifc abilities, sure he can incinerate the land around him but it doesnt say much on his endurance or else.
Considering he made Archimonde nigh indestructable with a snap of his finger, I am pretty sure he has gone all out with his own endurance Did not mean that Sargeras was superior Pyron in strength. Merely that he had shown impressive strength.
What claims it as nigh indestructable? what has Archimonde proven himself against?
Either way the Dark Titan has still not actually shown any real endurance, I dont remember how the story is currently, its changed a few times, does Argewyn still destroy his avatar? I remember him being damaged, obviously he is outright annhialted in his end, so he is destructable.#
But as I say, its difficult to determine his power, its higher than many but we dont know specfics like his overall survivability, resistances to elemental powers or to soul devouring or to enrergy attacks in general
I wouldn't try and mess with Sargeras Soul when the Natherizim adept in soul control and manipulation was unable to effect him. As for the powers of elements only a very strong level of Nature has shown having a effect on Archimonde then think about Sargeras against which Archimonde is nothing...
But it was actually shown to be indestructable? or stated to be such?
Either way that doesnt make it any less an embaressment, also who says it was "meant" to be destroye,d it may be part of Sargerus' plan but an Avatar is a physical form of a being, thus it could simply be Sargerus himself anyway even if it is an Avatar.
I dont know about nothing, they claim the Eredar are only limited by their minds does it not? and imo Kiljaeden has certainly shown himself beyond Sargerus in intellect.
- In matter of facts, it was. Archimonde was by narrators said to have impervious skin. The only ever recorded damage inflicted on him is nature damage, and at all times a massive extent.
- Sargeras took a dive. He was playing Aegwynn the whole time. She never had a chance. She had lost even before the fight begun, but had he not put up a fight she would have grown suspicious. He had his avatar to engage Aegwynn with the sole purpose of losing in order to get to Azeroth from the inside. It really was meant to be destroyed.
- No. The gift of Sargeras was limited only by the minds of Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden. The Eredar developed a sort of spell however that was supposively limitless, depending on the caster.
The Man'Ari Eredar has a lot of magicians. Even if it is not limitless and only very powerful, it is impressive enough since the Eredar have very high number of casters. As a sample of a paramount spell (The one supposively limitless) is the attack Archimonde developed which is powerful enough to kill someone by merely pointing your finger at him. Not injure. Not weaken. Kill.
1. Pyron has better feats than Sargeras, and even going by speculation is greater than Sargeras. Jedah is a great deal greater than Kain when it comes to devouring souls, but I agree you are right, Bishamon who can steal souls with a single slash of his sword could not take Pyron's soul.
2. Ummm...Jedah actually flys while fighting in game. He floats above the ground, and like many DSers can fly.
Nosgoth is literally the entire planet LOK takes place in.
Pyron DESTROYS Sargeras, he is a great deal faster, stronger, more powerful, nearly as versatile if not as, bigger, and maybe even more experienced(Pyron has 200,000,000 million years of planet eating and star eating at his belt, what does Sargeras have?)
So the Warcraft characters cannot harm Sargeras? Big deal, Pyron is on a whole other maginitude of power compared to anyone he has fought.
Pyron might just make Sargeras into a fancy ring if Sargeras is lucky.
1. Pyron has shown more feats than Sargeras, but not necessarily better. But if Sargeras is as powerful as the books and Blizzard indicate him to be, a full forced Sargeras would handily defeat Pyron. Since Sargeras is the majority of times spoken of indirectly, it is hard to simply say 'he can do this'm 'he can do that' since we have not really seen much of him.
2. I think what she meant was that Jedah is no actual factor in this fight. Which I agree with.
3. When dealing with characters such as Sargeras, size does not matter much. Nor does speed. In Pyron's case, neither does versatility. How long Sargeras has been active is unknown. It has never been announced. Only the words 'countless years' has been used when speaking of the Pantheon. Could be 200.000.000 years. Could be 2.000.000. We do not know, but I fail to see how one with 2.000.000 such as Sargeras would not be sufficient to fight Pyron anyway.
4. Yes, he is of a whole other power magnitude. So is Sargeras to anyone Pyron has fought. This argument of yours is weak and just like the experience one, absolutely pointlessless. It is an A>B>C argument on the top of all things.
5. Probably. If he against all odds defeat Sargeras, he most certainly would like to remember it forever. So a ring is a good choice.
1. So name some feats better than Pyron's? So because Sargeras lacks feats, we assume he would beat Pyron? Lol.
2. So destroying a dimension which has a landmass several hundreds of times larger than Earth, a sea that surrouds the landmass, and whatever is beyond the walls surrounding the sea point to Jedah being a non-factor?
3. So...Sargeras beats Pyron, simply by doing it? Awesome argument. So even though Pyron holds nearly all advantages, Sargeras wins? And in those years, Pyron has absorbed the power of(And I quote) "Countless galaxies," but Sargeras>countless galaxies right?
4. You missed the entire point. Sargeras has proven to be immune to anyone he has fought, who do not possess so much as a fraction of Pyron's power, but we must assume he is immune to Pyron's attacks too? No-Limit fallacies at their finest. It is not an A>B>C argument, I am not arguing that because Pyron>People Sargeras fights he wins, but that since the people that cannot hurt Sargeras are<<<<<<<<<<<Pyron in power, Pyron can hurt him. You take narrative hyperbole too seriously, I can quite easily find quotes stating Pyron was omnipotent before he powered down to fight the Darkstalkers, but I don't, cause it is just narrative hyperbole.
5. Against all odds? Evidence points to Pyron dominating Sargeras with ease going by those magical butterflys I call feats. And Pyron can absorb Earth and make it into a ring, so yeah, he can do it to Sargeras.
I agree with jaxx, which is rare, Sargeras has very few feats especially if your comparing ihm to Pyron, what are you basing Sargs power off of? the Old Gods who are beings of very few real feats of power themselves were able to kill titans, Sargerus himself has been defeated by Azeroth, his intellect is little in comparison to many of Azeroth and imo Pyron beats him in intellect, his power is nothing to Pyrons snce he has no feats to base his power on, the guys got nothing, hes defeated a few races most of which are cowards like the nethrezim, their not real fighters, just schemers, him defeating them is no mean feat, I wouldnt be surprised if Kain had their planet and dominated them uner his control given time.
Kain could simply make Jedah also attack Sarg using inspire hate powers or spirit wracks, using repel shield he could refelect any spells Sargerus uses against Kain back on him thus its lielyl Sargs own powers, since he chooses to use them would also effect him disaserously, also assumptions aside and going only by what we know for definite, Sarg is fair game to a incapaication time freezing projectile.
1. Better is a matter of definition. And I never said that we should assume that because of his lack of feats he could beat Pyron. Claiming that was my intentions of the point I brought up is rather ignorant. You were the one who brought up speculations, not I. I merely continued on the same point.
2. Then it is settled. Sargeras moves himself to another dimension, has Jedah destroy the dimension Pyron and Nosgoth are in and then the two are declared winners. No problems there. If he can not destroy the dimension, then no, he is no real factor. Because for all I have heard of Jedah, his dimension bust and his soul suck are his strongest feats. Since his soul suck is not much of an option here, we will just have him bust the dimension and make Sargeras and himself winners.
3. You read, write, post and then think, dont you? You actually think that I am a pathetic little fangirl that says Sargeras wins simply because 'he does'? I know you are justified to think so when it comes to certain cases, but I honestly thought I had given a better impression of me to you and others than that troughout the many debates I have participated in. To say the least, I am disappointed to hear you indirectly claim me to be nothing but a fangirl and on the top of all things, bring sarcasm into everything.
I merely gave my opinion in a response to your point, so I do not know what you think gives you the right to try mock me.
I honestly do not want to dignify this point with a decent reply, but I will do so anyway. Magic. That is what I believe Sargeras has over Pyron, and it is what I believe will have him defeat Pryon. It may be true that in time, Pyron could break what is supposed to be the indestructable body of Sargeras, and might be so that Pyron is more endurant than Sargeras, but not all strength come from muscles.
4. Have I as much as one single time brought up Sargeras immunity in this thread? What the heck are you doing, Dark-Jaxx? I have not brought up any narrator claiming Sargeras physical indestructability and I never intended to do so. If this is how you debate nowdays, you have turned out as much a disappointment as Burning Thought. I never even declined that any people who has fought Sargeras was even close to Pyron in power. In fact, I claimed the very opposite, that Pyron is on a very different level than any Sargeras has fought.
5. Evidence? What evidence? You mean evidence such as Sargeras teleporting away and fights Pyron from a seperate dimension, out of the giants reach. Or maybe the lack of evidence that Pyron has any sort of soul resistance, which could result in Sargeras possessing Pyron's body and taking him out over time. Or maybe evidence such as even though Sargeras body is destroyed, he can still exist as nothing but a spirit and even then still remain active in combat? Maybe would you like some evidence of Sargeras capability to preform actual BFR?
Last edited by Rapidash on Sep 18th, 2008 at 09:26 PM