Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Jack smiles and says "pirate"
Ok I know a lot of people here probably wont agree with me..but I don't think Jack is smiling like that because she is behaving like a pirate by betraying him..the dude is smiling like that because he can clearly see that she loved what he tasted like.
Jack knows that Elizabeth is a pirate..because she has betrayed him to save her own life once before..and she seduced him to do it back then too..and he realized that she doesn't have feelings for him in that way(YET)..and she has betrayed lots of other people too in order to save her own life...and Jack knows it..
What he doesn't know...is if she actually wants him..and once she has had a taste of him..will she still want him?
Jack wants the woman its obvious..and not just for sex..so he is desperate to know if there is even a chance...
In the curiosity scene IMO, Jack is basically telling Liz that one day she wont be able to resist coming over to HIS side..to be with him..and she will act on selfish impulse..one day she wont be able to resist him as in she wont be able to resist tasting him..to see what HE'S LIKE
I know he doesn't literally say it but as T.Maria says..they are trying to not make the Jack/Liz thing too obvious too early on so its all bloody CRYPTIC talk..honestly this movie confuses us all so much because of all the symbolisms they use and not actual flat out obvious statements that these two friggin want each other and why? Cuz its only the middle of the over all story so they don't wanna give too much away in movie 2 IMO..and when movie 3 comes out and you watch movie 2..you will be like..."OH YEAH now I understand what he's really saying there!!" I bet you!
So yeah this scene totally isn't about him wanting her to be a pirate..because by movie 1 she has already proven to be one to him...he just wants to know if this woman wants him as a MAN..
and when you look at it this way it makes much more sense to the rest of the story in movie 2 because she is actually starting to find it hard to resist Jack Sparrow all of a sudden...she's in no way finding it hard to resist being a bloody pirate in this movie. She's quite obviously embracing the more free side to being a pirate in movie 2 without a worry because she is already a pirate at heart and she knows it..
When you look at what he's saying in that way about her resisting the temptation of issing him and how one day she will to see what it's like the end scene then makes a WHOLE LOT MORE sense because If betraying him like a pirate was the thing she was truly worried bout doing..and was resisting then..why did she find it so EASY to make the choice?.. I mean that look of pure determination on her face once she did it..betraying people is NOT hard for her..she's used to doing it to save herself....I kept asking myself why she looks as if she has no care in the world once locking him there and then all of a sudden you see her basically go weak in the knees.
IMO the betrayal wasn't the thing she was contemplating doing in that scene because its not in her nature to worry about betraying someone when HER life is in danger..she does it all the friggin time even to her friends..she's actually wondering if she should taste Jack or not before she does it..She could have used one of the guns to force him to stay there..she could have used her sword all whilst his back was turned...but NO..no no..she gives into the temptation of tasting Jack before she does it she decided to use that as a way to betray him..when she didn't have to..
So yes she kisses him and damn she gives him one heck of a good mouth wrestle because its the very thing she was tempted to try through out most of the movie..and she can make meal out of it if she wants to because she doesn't have to face the repercussions later cuz she is going to betray him either way..if she likes it or not..because during times of danger..as usual..she will put herself first no matter what. Jack has to die so she can live in her mind..thats the selfish thing about it..she's going to kiss him and leave him no matter what..despite the fact she knows he wants her..
So when she actually chains him there..Jack doesn't actually smile because she's betrayed him..she's done this to him before..she's used seductive techniques to betray him on the beach so he pretty much expects it..he smiles cuz this time she used a kiss ..and he quietly waits to see what her reaction will be..to see if she liked it..he sees that she's having trouble trying to stay focused on his eyes..because hers keep slipping back to his lips....he then sees if he can prompt her to kiss him again..he looks at her lips and this causes her to basically almost kiss him again..this is enough for Jack..he smiles with satisfaction and and says "pirate" with pride..and its not because she has just acted like one because she has done it before to him. Its because she loved that kiss and she wants more..its basically saying "you are MY pirate"(again the annoying cryptic crap)
And then look at Liz's reaction LOL..she realizes he was right about her..she would want to taste him one day..and when she did..she would LOVE it..her face says all "no i don't!" and Jack actually looks as if he is about to laugh at the denial..and his face says "yes you do!" and then she leaves
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 15th, 2006 at 01:50 AM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
she was never tempted to be a pirate in the movie..they made it obvious that she was in fact tempted to kiss Jack..so the end scene is not about her temptation to betray someone it's about being tempted to kiss jack to see what its like..IMO..thats what the whole movie was building to..it wasnt building towards her being selfish..it was building towards her snogging his face of..all the chemistry..the flirts..the almost kisses?? all that was building up to her becoming a true pirate? I dont think so..cuz the woman already is one and Jack/herself know she is because both know she has done it in the past..what both characters dont know is if she wants Jack as a man..
just to make my point extra clear
and I think I could have just said that^^^ Instead of that one MASSIVE post..so I'm sorry about that lol
Oh and yeah..look at what she does once he says "pirate"..she realizes that he was right about her loving it and then she looks back at his lips looks a bit pissed off and then says with her face "no i dont!"
lol get out of the DENIAL STAGE *****!
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:13 AM
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
It means "in my opinion." Sometimes you'll see an h in it which means "in my humble opinion."
LovelyOne, that's what I have always thought the smile meant. Yes, he's thrilled that she's not hiding her pirate side anymore, but this is when I think he's realized just how much she means to him. Yeah, he came back to face the Kracken and was basically her hero, but he could have talked his mind into believing any number of things. "It was just the right thing to do and she was right about that" or "I had to come back to save the Pearl." Whatever. But in the kiss scene, they're alone and there is no one to get in the way. She's just proven she does want him and he was right about her and then it hits him. He's been falling in love with her.
great post, as always. lots of great ideas mentioned.
i go back and forth with this one. aside from this being a moment where i have trouble seeing straight due to massive heart palpitations because of the hottness, i always change what i think this part means.
some of the time, i think when Jack says pirate, its sort of a half-hearted praise of not only her, but himself as well... as in, I can corrupt everyone to be like me, even Liz.
most of the time, i think he's finding it an incredible turn on to SURRENDER and BE CONTROLLED by someone. Jack is a high control person... always in charge of himself and other people... always manipulating everyone to act a certain way, and we know from scientific studies and the human experience that high control people sometimes find it intoxicating to suddenly be controlled by SOMETHING or SOMEONE.... its like a blissful high of a new experience... and he is realizing he just got pawned into quite a situation by someone he THOUGHT he could control.... but who actually is controlling him! and with little more than wit and sex appeal! and he's thinking, i could never have predicted THIS... and its HOTT... because i am surrenduring and its so new and frightening and wonderful....
does all that make sense?
as far as the lizzie side of things, i think you hit the nail on the head. Liz has always been a pirate and always acted like one... albeit, never so obviously. she usually covers her behavior with some BS... but this time she cant. ya know? lol.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
look at it though guys..look at what she does when he says "pirate" its basically "see I told you you would love to taste me" and then she actually looks back at his lips and gets pissed off that he was right..and she basically says "no I didnt love it" and she then runs off..this is what makes her strong enough to leave him..it was the denial coming back to her..
Jack kows she means a hell of a lot to him..he's worried about taking her throughout most of the movie because it is love that he has for her..and if he allowes himself to have her it means "he's not free and that he will be tied down by her" thats the only reason why he was not using full force to take her in the movie IMO..she's tempting him just as much as he is tempting her and when she shows him that she wants him badly..he desires her all the more..so yes that was the moment he though..OK i'm going to HAVE YOU NOW!
and Liz has never been afraid to show her pirate side...she does it all the time its not about accepting it either because she basically has the second we see her break out of jail..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:27 AM
you know... i havent ever used the word "love" when it comes to Liz and Jack... and right now, I dont think I will. I just don't know enough to call it "love"... meaning the romantic sort of love that gets people married.
i think as i have said before there is a really incredible bond, a sort of spiritual/mental/emotional connection there that is way more significant than any other relationship in the film. I also think there is physical attraction to the MAX... lol... obviously. they connect, they fit together, they balance each other out...
being IN LOVE IMO is when people have accepted their feelings and literally jumped together, took the plunge, admitted how they feel to each other and are actively pursuing it. thats just the way i see it.
so as of now, i'm not going to say love. i hope i will get to in 3...
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
Well, I like to say that we're watching them fall in love. They're not quite there yet. Well, I think Jack is. I think he realized he's in love. Liz probably hasn't, but he'll let her take her time. If the movie series goes in the direction we want it to go, we will see them form that kind of lasting love you're talking about, Kate. It has to be shown in this next movie that it's stronger and longer lasting than the puppy love she had with Will.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
yes Iwhen I say love. I more or less mean: "DEEP feelings for her" and its just easier and faster to say love lol
To me it doesnt make sense why she shows that she wants him there but then leaves(if she realizes that the man really wants her in return as in cares for her)..I could NEVER do that to someone if I knew they loved me its like a proper stab in the heart and she would have shown more guilt there had she done it to him and realized that he in fact has deep feelings for her..she realizes it all to LATE imo..thats why we only see it later..after she has had some time to think things over a lil bit..
She knows that he often comes back to protect people when they are in danger..so him coming back thrilled her yes..but its what Jack always does...she knew he had it in him for a long time..so at that point what he did wasnt enough to make her feel guilty about what she is doing..yes he showed some amazing heroic things there but for all liz knows..he didnt actually do it for her...
so what was it that made her suddenly show so much guilt later on?
IMO she realizes that Jack was in fact going to stay on the pearl to DIE for her..once she has thought it over..she realizes that he put up no fight when she chained him there..no babbling words of persuasion..no anger towards her..all those are the actions of a man who has accepted he wants to die for her.
And when Liz thinks over EVERYTHING that has unfolded in the movie..she realizes that everything was for her...and that he really did come back for her and was so brave this time because he was protecting the one he cares for most.
and that hit her hard
its only then that jack truly "gains the rewards that follow" its too bad he's dead though lmao
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 15th, 2006 at 02:47 AM
yes i agree lovelyone... i think, in her heart of hearts, Liz was expecting another miraculous escape from the infamous Captain Jack Sparrow. I think she was expecting him to pop onto the longboat as the kraken took down the ship, and row them to shore, where they could all joke about it.
i think she was in a state of shock watching that boat go down, knowing he was still on it... knowing she had done that... still tasting him in her mind... knowing what could have been and the horror that her legend was gone. ya know?
even if she was still in denial about her true feelings for him, subconcsiously she knew... and she would be going through the grief stages and all--- shock, denial... all that.
then as they arrive at Tia's--- which Liz has never been to, BTW, she's never met Tia, doesn't know who she is or what she's capable of... and Liz is going, what am I going to do now?
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
yes she realizes everything about Jack actually having deep feelings for her inside that hut..
apparently when Gibbs says "he has that honest streak in him..had us fooled right to the end" she squirms in her seat and cries a fresh batch of tears..because she is realizing that Jack actually cares alot for ..and he had her "fooled right till the end"..which is in tia's hut..she thought it was only lust IMO when it came to what Jack thought of her...until she has time to think about the fact that Jack was going to die on the pearl for her whilst she escaped..which is something jack would have NEVER done had he not been caring about someones safety so much to do it..and she realizes that person was in fact her because he she was the only one with him to make him feel like that.Jack doesnt do things likt that for friends..he does it for people he loves.so yeah feeling guilty Liz? you just betrayed someone who cares so very much for you. She thinks she just totally stabbed him through the heart.
(although Jack thinks differently after her reaction to the kiss lol)
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 15th, 2006 at 03:07 AM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
gonna try explain this again cuz I dont think I'm explaining it too well
the main reason I dont see the ending as Liz finnaly being tempted to do the selfish pirate betrayal is because she has already done it..3 times in the past ..and she has been perfectly fine about it..
I just dont see it..and the only thing we do see that is tempting her throughout the entire move are Jack's darn lips..so thats why IMO the ending was only about her giving into the temptation of tasting Jack to see what he's like..because its the only true thing the movie suggests she is tempted to do..she's already embraced her pirate side a LONG time ago..She knows it and Jack knows because he was one of the ones she betrayed before lol..the audience should know this too..she's not being tempted to betray Jack in that last scene at all..she's gonna do it anyway bcause its in her nature to do it..she's just gonna see what he tastes like before she does..because its what she was so tempted to do through out the movie..and she was goign to see if she liked it or not.she does like it but its STILL not enough foe her to unchain him..I think she knows she wants this man in her life..but she doesnt think that he wants her in his life..till much later..when it hits her
When she usually betrays(leaves to die) are people she shows no remorse for because that person isn't someone who loves her or anything..so she finds it easier to hurt them..
So she suddenly realizes at the end that Jack really does care for her and ona very deep leverl..and THEN we see her uncharacteristically show remorse and guilt after a betrayal
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 15th, 2006 at 03:30 AM
__________________
"Get that out of my face." "It's not in your face, it's in my hand." "Get what's in your hand out of my face." <3 set by yours truly
"In the curiosity scene IMO, Jack is basically telling Liz that one day she wont be able to resist coming over to HIS side..to be with him..and she will act on selfish impulse..one day she wont be able to resist him as in she wont be able to resist tasting him..to see what HE'S LIKE" - LovelyONE
Everytime he says "You won't be able to resist." I always expect the word "me" at the end of the statement. I'd like to think it's implied - haha
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Sep 15th, 2006 01:39 AM
