Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
My old college stuff (Film Studies) May help us understand DMC/AWE
I found some important work sheets handed out to me last year in film studies. One set about how story and plot can be identified in movies and some about "mise en scene" which I will post later
Hopefully this will help us understand what structure PotC1, DMC and AWE may have. Remember 2/3 are ONE story where as PotC 1 was a story on its own.
I always blab on about "mise en scene" and "narrative" and "plot". Hopefully this will help people understand the crap I speak lol.
I'll keep adding to this thread when i dig out more old stuff (am glad i held onto last years work, knew it would come in handy )
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Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 19th, 2006 at 09:48 PM
Not to argue But I think all 3 movies make a one whole story. Even though the first was an introduction of characters, is still part of the story to understand why and what is going on in dmc.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Ted and Terry said movie 1 was a story in itself on boxofficemojo.com..as in narrative structure(because they had no intention for a 2nd back then)..it started and ended and closed properly. It wasn't left open. But movie 2/3 continues from the end of course but as a new story with its own structure. It starts from an equilibrium...or possibly it started on a disruption.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 19th, 2006 at 10:08 PM
IMO It was more like unfinished. Especially the ending when he was singing the song Liz taught jack. But in um how u say it..uh talking theatrically it was closed; to start a new story, a more depth to character kind.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
EDIT - actually yeah I agree with you..the narrative/plot/ story structure closed properly..but certain themes raised in 1 were carried on into 2/3 i agree.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 19th, 2006 at 10:20 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
when it comes to Propps structure I find this interesting:
Propp's 31 Functions of the Folktale: Preparatory Section:
l. One of the members of a family absents himself from home.
2. An interdiction (ban) is addressed to the hero.
3. The interdiction is violated. (The villain usually enters the story here.)
4. The villain makes an attempt at reconnaissance. 5. The villain receives information about his victim. (The villain gets an answer.) 6. The villain attempts to deceive his victim by using persuasion, magic, or deception.
7. The victim submits to deception and thereby unwittingly helps his enemy. (Hero sleeps.)
When Beckett's man saw Liz leave with Jack he let her go Beckett also gained info on Jack here. does he know that Liz entering Jack's life is going to kill Jack? I think bekett knows hes gonna die but I bet he doesnt know Tia is gonna bring him back.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 19th, 2006 at 10:34 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I'm not actually sure we can place Propps thing over this because it depends on which characters point of view we are looking at from the start..All 3 characters are heros and are following the hero's 12 steps I think. Its not just a story based on one hero.
although I would say Jack was the family member who left home..
Jacks villain is mainly Davy in this story not Beckett, Beckett is Elizabeths enemy i would say.
EDIT - you are welcome PirateDiva
Right now its rather hard to place these structures over DMC/AWE which are one story because we havent seen the end yet..so its still pretty much guessing who the true villain is to each character.
Its possible to study DMC hard and get it but its really difficult when you dont know the conclusion of the story (well we know parts lol)
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 19th, 2006 at 10:49 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
l. One of the members of a family absents himself from home.
2. An interdiction (ban) is addressed to the hero.
3. The interdiction is violated. (The villain usually enters the story here.)
4. The villain makes an attempt at reconnaissance.
5. The villain receives information about his victim. (The villain gets an answer.)
6. The villain attempts to deceive his victim by using persuasion, magic, or deception.
7. The victim submits to deception and thereby unwittingly helps his enemy. (Hero sleeps.)
Ok this from Lizzies PoV^^
1. Jack is not there he's "left home", Liz is about to get married
2. An interdiction is introduced (outlawing) wedding is legally outlawed because of Jack
3. Liz doesnt listen to this..she escapes and this is where she comes face to face with beckett??
4. Beckett tries to explore something here (hints Liz may care deeply for Jack?) then Liz's denial.
5. Beckett learns she goes off with Jack
6. The villain attempts to deceive his victim by using persuasion, magic, or deception.
7. The victim submits to deception and thereby unwittingly helps his enemy. (Hero sleeps.)
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I get the feeling these may be Jack..cuz he does lie to her and she's clearly feeling decieved by him later on..beckett is actually out of the picture now
6. Jack persuades her..lies to her about Will in order to make her help him
7. She's unwittingly helping him and she has no idea Jack is lying to her lol
(I dont think he remains her enemy but it does strangley fit no?)
Again its the shape shifter stuff.. Jack is a shape shifter to her and she is a shape shifter to him...meaning they dont understand eachother until much later on in the story...with Jack the moment is when he's reconciled with the female is when he comes back for her on the pearl...Liz still aint there yet.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 19th, 2006 at 11:09 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Heres some more on the Mise en Scene..and To Willofthewisp and other people who tell me that props/things can be added into a movie and have no meaning at all.. read the first sentence in the paragraph about props and how important they are to setting and character....yes the dog is a prop and so are the keys and so is the bone what you think it means is up to you though ..I just want people to realise that I take everything I see on screen so seriously because that is how I have been taught..and T&T/Gore were all taught similarly to me in their youth in order for them to even become writers/directors. Everything in a movie..even the lighting in some circumstances can be essential to a particular theme that is being expressed.
Also surreal44. There's an explanation of what "blocking" means so either one of us could be right about Will's location in that scene..IMO (and I stick by it) Its the blocking that is in front of the Dutchman..Terry said we the audience learn something right after she says that line about the compass not working..the only thing we see that she doesn't see is the Dutchman/Davy/Will being blocked from her view in that scene behind a large blockage..Will is to her N/E whilst the compass points S/W at Jack...
P.S forgive my random notes on the side..yes it looks like a child's writing, sorry about that
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Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 20th, 2006 at 01:42 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Welcome shannstar79. I have something interesting on "melodrama" too. Although PotC is not entirely that theme . I think many of the things Elizbabeth does in DMC links in with that theme...
ignore the ticks..that was us studying Taxi Driver lol
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So the COMPASS ladies and gentleman it seems, is something to show us without words what the frig is going on with Elizabeth's feelings..same goes for Jack it seems..I also think he is rather melodramatic in character..many of his actions speak louder than words.
DMC is not a domestic melodrama I dont think.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 20th, 2006 at 02:13 PM
I agree!! because Elizabeth's character is very melodramatic: she has her own perosnal conflits and issues to deal with and come to a closure before she can move on (with Jack hehehe) and be happy
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Also in melodramas..the female is introduced to something they really want..but they feel the rest of the world wont let them have it "what would people think?" is uaually the main "problem" they feel.... They feel like they shouldt have it even though being with that person is what they desire the most and what they want the most.
You can even flip that around to Jack's perspective of Elizabeth too.
Elizabeths actions at the end say it all. She wants Jack badly, moreso than Will but she's removing the temptation of him because she thinks she shouldnt be be allowed to have Jack no matter how much more she wants him than Will...the shift of music in that scene where she almost kisses him again is melodramatic..its sympathy music on HER behalf its like "I want you so much but I cant have you" remember its only the middle of the story and tht is not her final choice before the movie closes.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 20th, 2006 at 02:26 PM
I think i am getting this
so Liz in introduced to Jack and wants him and his life of freedom badly, but, is she afraid the of the consequences of leaving behind a realtionship that is so Familiar? and already accepted in society?
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
yeah^^ that is probably it..and the same can be said for Jack. He's in conflict with something familar and something new which he wants but feels he shouldnt have
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Oct 19th, 2006 09:36 PM
