Exar Kun, upon acquiring Naga Sadow's infamous Sith amulet, punches through Freedon Nadd's spirit and vanquishes him. This same spirit exerted his Force powers across the galaxy and even attacked Jedi immediately prior to all this. This is known.
But today I had an interesting thought considering Sadow and Kressh's fight for dominance, which was broken up by the spirit of Marka Ragnos. If Ragnos is so weak, why could Sadow simply not obliterate Ragnos with the same amulet? Why would he not take this opportunity to vanquish his immediate predecessor and cement his position as DLotS?
There's a lot of speculation here. It could be because he feared retaliation (although he clearly didn't fear retaliation any other time in the comic; he even fought Kressh outright on the spot for the title in front of everyone who did nothing to stop him).
It also could be because he was afraid to try. But why would this be the case? IF this is the case, THEN it seems likely one of two reasons may be the cause:
1. Sadow, even with his own amulet, is not strong enough to overcome Ragnos' spirit. Even in death, the Dark Lord is too strong. This seems to jive with what we see in JA; multiple planets needing to be completely sapped of Force power to revive him.
2. Sadow, even with his own amulet, is weaker than Kun, who has a raw Force potential bordering on Zonakin levels.
The second above assertions imply that Ragnos' spirit is at least equal to Nadd's, when in reality it seems more likely that his spirit is greater.
I've thought of this before and then punched myself for overthinking star wars because really, can't we just blame the writers? The only thing they've been consistent about is inconsistency.
Right, we can harp on that all we want, but it doesn't really solve much. Since power levels are a huge part of SWVF/EU business, this topic is still relevant. I'm curious to see what anyone else actually thinks since this either says something implicitly about Kun's power, or it says something about Ragnos'. Both are contenders for top tier Sith/Force users of all time.
But not enough to duel at his funeral? Your point's not impossible, but again we see this same thing make Exar Kun, a runaway padawan, into a Force god. Similar situation, vastly different result. Sadow and Kressh both bow in submission.
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And when he died, his presence was felt across the galaxy:
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Illustrious even indicated otherwise:
Or was he just that frighteningly strong that Sadow wouldn't attempt it?
Yet Kun bows before Ragnos too. Nice argument there.
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This is after he just Falcon punched Nadd into oblivion, so your logic doesn't hold up here. There's absolutely no reason for Kun to bow before anyone.
Also:
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Kressh seems convinced Ragnos is going to destroy Sadow even as a spirit.
Yes, scoff at arguments grounded in canonical sources.
This would be relevant if only Exar Kun were actually bowing to Ragnos somewhere in the picture.
You mean because Kun smoked the guy who manipulated, tortured, and taunted him and not the guy who presided over his dark coronation? What a shocker!
...Which is probably why he doesn't bow to anyone, Ragnos included.
So what? You don't think reverence for the dead would inculcate some measure of superstition in a universe where people can move things with their mind, survive bodily destruction, and shoot energy beams from their hands?
So how many times now has Janus wandered into KMC, fellatio'd the ancient sith for awhile and then wandered off after getting beaten up?
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
I can't install a .rar extractor on a work computer, so you're welcome to peruse the comics yourself for conclusion on Kun's bowing tendencies. I may respond better when I get home.
I am shackled to my desk. And I'll double check the comic when I get home. So it could be a few hours, because I may get distracted with tv, chores, or pornvideo games.
I don't have balls- I'm a beautiful white woman irl. Surprise.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Kressh sounds more like an overmatched child about to hide behind his older brother, but quite possibly he would sneak attack a belabored Sadow. Point remains that Kressh believes Ragnos' disembodied spirit is enough to contain/overpower Sadow, who, as I've discovered rereading TOTJ comics, has not one but two of those amulets. Kun notes that Ulic's is the mate of his own, and Nadd's knowledge comes from Sadow entirely.
As for bowing before Ragnos, I concede that this is not entirely correct. Neither Ulic nor Kun necessarily bowed. They did, however, accept the burning, scorching marks he put on their heads and took his words without so much as a "screw you, old man". Scans below. The following are in counter clockwise orientation, since I could not easily snip the entire page without compromising the text quality:
Sadow's ship amplifies the Force power of Aleema to chuck the core of a star. I can't explain how ridiculous this is compared to say, TKing anything in existence. Other than moving the Deathstar around Alderaan, I can't think of anything comparative to such Force tech.
^ Just how much did the ancient Jedi know more than say, TOR, KotOR, or PT era Jedi? This explains why they had access to more exotic Force powers such as Sever Force, or the Wall of Light enacted by ten thousand Jedi above Yavin IV. And also why the Jedi pretty much committed genocide on the ancient Sith. While the ancient Sith were very strong, the numerous Jedi with their access to such knowledge is perhaps stronger than we've been giving them credit for as seen here.
The Supernova was caused by a spell which only effects stars, just like many Sith spells from Sith Magic is powerful but limited to only one action. It is not necessarily one's own power, not even an amp. The Book of Sith states that the Corsair amps spells and incantations, while amulets state to be able to amp your own force reserves but limited to one power, such as Kun's Dark side energy blasts. Meaning that the spell that causes supernovas can't effect anything else, otherwise Aleema would have simply destroyed Ossus if she truly had her TK amp'd that much. Also Nadd did all that before the retcon Lucas made regarding about Sith and the afterlife. The Sith were able to become force ghosts like Jedi before the Prequel era and could move anywhere in the galaxy and attack people. Now that has been retconn'd as being only available to Jedi, with the Sith having an alternative known as Essence Transfer that has to make them bind to an item. Nadd's ghost has been explained because it was not just Onderon but the planets in the system it occupies thanks to the Nadd's family casting Sith incantations across those planets and allowing a portal through them of sorts. Ragnos has no explanation other than lol he's Ragnos although the amulets might have allowed him a passageway so to speak to meet Kun and Droma.
__________________ "Vader's pulse and breathing were machine-regulated, so they could not quicken; but something in his chest became more electric around his meetings with the Emperor; he could not say how. A feeling of fullness, of power, of dark and demon mastery -- of secret lusts, unrestrained passion, wild submission -- all these things were in Vader's heart as he neared his Emperor. These things and more."
Last edited by The Merchant on Oct 24th, 2013 at 03:40 AM
I am so sorry, pal. But I have to agree with everyone else here that you're kinda being silly with Marka Ragnos.
I hope you can find it in your heart of hearts to forgive me for the derailing that will ensue now.
I thought you were Nemebro's "blaxican pal" IIRC. You can't call yourself white if you're black and Hispanic. IIRC you said you were a dude.
You're a freakin Dolos. Played like a true Scorpio. You would have made a cunning Sithess.
The Ancient Sith Species were a lot like the Nightsisters. Mother Talzin was able to perform an incantation on Count Dooku that made him susceptible to what she did to his Voodoo doll. Doesn't mean Talzin would have a prayer against Dooku in a direct fight.
That's why it's absurd to state that Kun was approaching Zonakin. Zonakin was JA Luke levels. I would put FoTJ Luke at Dark Empire Luke when supplemented by Lea and Ben's collective Force energies, able to quickly disarm Sidious - putting FoTJ Luke far above Zonakin.
The reason I put Zonakin at the same levels as JA Luke is because the arguments brought up by Darth Power in our debates about Mace Windu Vs Zonakin. An amped Dooku did manage to momentarily get the upper hand on Yoda; and hold his own against Yoda at normal states, so Zonakin's ability to make Dooku look like he was wielding toy instead of a lightsaber implies he was right around Sidious and Yoda's levels. Vader would have been invincible if he'd accepted himself as a killing machine.
Anakin's abilities excelled at exponential rates, at one point even his Sith and Nightsister esque esoteric capabilities were put to the test on Mortis wielding far more energy than Vitiate could. As Sidious' successor, he would have certainly learned Plagueis' ability to cheat death and that would have made his power all the more lethal.
__________________ "Compounding these trickster aspects, the Joker ethos is verbally explicated as such by his psychiatrist, who describes his madness as "super-sanity." Where "sanity" previously suggested acquiescence with cultural codes, the addition of "super" implies that this common "sanity" has been replaced by a superior form, in which perception and processing are completely ungoverned and unconstrained"
Last edited by KillaKassara on Oct 24th, 2013 at 04:57 AM
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Oct 22nd, 2013 09:31 PM
