Selene beat her. While smashing Rogue, Colosuss, Nightcrawler and fighting a Cerebro-using Xavier.
If you mean when Rachel came back to kill the Lords Cardinal, Selene was explicitly weakened. Impressively, weakened Selene still tanked a combo physical/psychic assault while asleep from Rachel.
Spiral had to reflect the attack magically, which only worked because Rachel didnt notice her put the spell up.
Regardless, Spiral wont win the comparison game. Look at Rogue for example. Rogue KO'd her via drain, although Spiral's psyche was dominant, and on another occassion bounced her around like a pinball. Selene in the same situation tanked Rogue's attack, ignored the drain, and choked Rogue while draining her instead.
Spiral is great when she can get her spells off(often with teammates helping or in ambush scenarios), but I see her as a lower tier version of Selene tbh.
Last edited by StyleTime on Dec 10th, 2018 at 03:15 AM
That's because Rachel knocked the wind out of her. She was completely outclassed. In fact, Selene was so drained from that fight that she had to feast immediately after it.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
I don't think I'm explaining myself adequately here. Even if we ignore Selene's need to feed, which could totally explain her weakened state, she was still literally sleeping in bed when an out-to-kill Phoenix Rachel unloaded on her. If I hit you with a sledgehammer while you sleep, then beat you in a fight, I didn't "outclass" you.
If anything, it's impressive a defenseless Selene can eat the attack and still fight at all.
Last edited by StyleTime on Dec 11th, 2018 at 12:08 AM
Prove she was weakened! NO ISSUE leading up to the fight says so. She needed to catch her breath after she was attacked in her sleep by Rachel. That's it.
Rachel was toying with her before going in for the kill. When she got bored with Selene, she was about to crush her to death and Selene couldn't do sh|t about it. If she wanted to kill her in her sleep, she would have done so.
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..even the outer hells are indifferent matters for they bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.
I said in the last post, we could go with your interpretation. It changes nothing. Weak from lack of food. Weak from Rachel trying to kill her in her sleep. It's irrelevant. Any way you slice it, she started off the fight handicapped. It gives us this information visually and verbally. Saying she got outclassed is ignores what's happening on panel. Again, if I take a hammer to your skull while you sleep, THEN challenge you to a duel, I didn't outclass you.
You're adding things to the scene. Rachel explicitly resolved to kill them twice, and Selene in particular, leading up to the encounter. Once in the very moment before she attacks. No where does she say "I want to toy with them first. "
She tried and failed.
Last edited by StyleTime on Dec 11th, 2018 at 09:11 PM
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i love spiral. if we focus purely on her highest feats and ignore the times she was beat down by longshot or beaten by shatterstar, she would have a chance. her powers were and remain in some cases difficult to fully pin down and they change often. my respect thread has all dead links i'm afraid but she has wiped the floor with the xmen and obviously was capable of depowering all of the avengers. however, she is not consistent and she has also been weakened more than once. at her best she could certainly compete and maybe win. in general and factoring in all showings, i'd take selene. it's a funky match up with 2 characters who are really tough to categorize with certainty.
Lesson 1 : Hungry and weak vampires take power naps rather than hunt for food to bring them back to full power.
Lesson 2 : The same energy claw attack that was about to kill a fully conscious and actively resisting Selene wouldn't have killed a sleeping and helpless Selene.
To say "tomato, tomato". As in, it's irrelevant which it was. She started the fight weakened, as pointed out by everything in the scene.
Of course, you ignored the context of my sentence just like you ignored the context of the fight.
Yes, that's exactly right. You get weaker the more you're beat up. That is how fighting works.
Then again, you don't get why being sledgehammered in your sleep would compromise you for a subsequent fight, even when the dialogue explicitly states so. I shouldn't be asking so much of you I guess. I apologize.
You left out the part where Selene is passed out asleep as Rachel points out how Selene is "so vulnerable" before trying to kill her.
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Nov 27th, 2018 12:52 PM
