@Kbro - That's referring to the war against Dooku. She never fights Tyranus in person.
@Zenwolf - That predates Ky Narec, IIRC.
@DarthAnt66 - What does SWTOR say about it? And this came out three years after Chronicles, so it retcons that — not to mention that Chronicles is hilariously wrong on numerous fronts and inconsistent even with itself.
The Chronicles being wrong on various fronts is irrelevant when Leland Chee has affirmed it's canonical status in not one, but three instances. Also provide me a quote from any canonical policy saying a source coming out after serves as a retcon, since none exists. That's generally *assumed*, but given the caliber of literature is so different (official summary posted on starwars.com and the KotOR II website and affirmed by Chee versus fan-choice action-figure by ToyFare potentially written by fan), I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt. The Chronicles specifically states "Revan feeds on (but is not consumed by) the power of the dark side," which is literally as a direct contest of quotes as it gets. Thus, I'm inclined to refer to the source material on this one (given Chronicles is indeed the original source referring to Revan's actions against Malachor). It's contradicted by SWTOR by stating that Revan is indeed consumed by the dark-side, in which he is not consumed by the dark-side until he confronts Vitiate. He's also not a Sith Lord until he confronts Vitiate. He self-proclaims himself one on Malachor V, but as per Pablo, you have to be officially christened by a Sith Master in order to officially become a Sith Lord (with obvious exceptions, of course). Not to mention the description is blatantly ignorant of the Mandalorian Wars.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Apr 20th, 2017 at 03:45 AM
For the record, the two other Revan action figures released had descriptions that were direct copy-and-pastes from Wookieepedia, so it's entirely possible this one was as well (just from 2006).
That's beside all the other reasons.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Also, I'm not even sure a claim of retcon can be made, since regardless of when Chronicles was first written, it was still upheld on the official Star Wars website well after the release of the action figure. Chee also confirmed it's canoncity following the release of the figure, I believe. Thus, it effectively never went out of business, even despite numerous rehauls of the Star Wars website, until well after the action figure went away.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Last edited by Jaggarath on Apr 20th, 2017 at 04:14 AM
Nowhere did I say Chronicles is non-canon, lol. All I was getting at is that it's reliability is just as questionable as the action figure's, but for different reasons. The fact that it's canon and that its canonicity has been affirmed makes it no less susceptible to being retconned, much like any other canon source. The fact that the action figure descriptions can be taken from Wookieepedia means nothing in of itself; it just means that where they do, said Wookieepedia descriptions are canonized by the publishing of those action figures (an official source).
The nature in which Revan became a Sith Lord was in line with how it was portrayed prior to SWTOR coming along and retconning the whole lot. While SWTOR may change the fact that he didn't become a Sith Lord on Malachor V, it doesn't change the notion of him being corrupted there. It claims that Revan's fall to the dark side was completed by his encounter with Vitiate, which he suggests that he was corrupted in part already. We know Revan was succumbing to the lure of the dark side over the course of the Mandalorian Wars anyway; this is just further proof.
Your last post made no sense whatsoever. Regarding retcons, there doesn't need to be an official publication trying to reconcile the two sources; many accepted retcons are simply a new source's depiction of X overriding an older one's. If an official product says one thing, and another official product released later says another in relation to the same topic, then that's a retcon.
Though if you're going to argue that a newer source doesn't outright take precedence over another and try to place emphasis on the "source of origin" over later sources' references to it, then I can settle for Revan not being far more powerful than Nihilus, and Yoda repelling Dooku's Lightning "far from easily", among various other things.
EDIT: Actually, the action figure quote and the Chronicles quote are referring to completely separate events. So no retcon, but Revan was still corrupted, at least in the incident described by the action figure.
Last edited by SunRazer on Apr 20th, 2017 at 04:41 AM
It's actually pretty amazing you can type all of that yet somehow dodge every one of my points.
CANONCITY:
- The Chronicles of the Old Republic was featured on both the official Star Wars website and the Knights of the Old Republic II website.
- The article was also confirmed twice over to be a legitimate and good source.
versus
- Revan action figures have a history of citing Wookieepedia as the back-of-the-box description.
- The action figure is also from a fan-choice award, so it's unknown who the hell wrote it or if anyone ever checked its contents ever.
There's absolutely no statement that newer quotes retcon the old. Chee has said many times it's a "case-by-case basis."
Based on the facts listed above, the Chronicles, in the mind of anyone besides you, would be considered the superior source.
Your "retcon" policy is something you made up. No where has any Star Wars official stated that. So stop the bullshit.
CONTRADICTION:
There is a difference between wielding the dark-side and being consumed by the dark-side. The Chronicles stated the former in regards to Revan, in which no contradiction arose with SWTOR and was, in fact, supportive of later texts. The notion Revan was "consumed" by the dark-side, based on the affects of Malachor V on those that it did canonically "consume," suggests an unavoidable, unbreakable devotion. Thus, a contradiction indeed exists since it was canonically not until Revan confronted Vitiate did such an event happen. Therefore, Revan could not have been consumed by the dark-side on Malachor V. You are trying to argue being corrupted and being consumed is the same thing, which is specifically isn't. Chronicles goes out of it's way to specify the difference.
EDIT: And no, they're both referring to the same event.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Post Chee's quote. The last time we had a quote from him it was referring to the story group's method of deciding retcons, not us.
IRC, the quote from Chronicles is about him drawing on the power of Malachor from space without being corrupted. That was in the middle of the battle, not as they chased the Mandalorian raiders as the action figure quote claims.
And again, the Wookieepedia thing doesn't matter. All it means is that the action figure has canonized that part of Wookieepedia. As for the fan choice crap, assuming you're right, somebody would check it anyway, so yeah. You're grasping at straws.
You realize that C-Canon and all these rules we follow are just how the story group follows it, not LucasFilm's official policy, right?
Nope. It's when Revan arrives at Malachor V. The dark-side tries to corrupt him, but he resists. That's why he maintains his sanity.
It's relevant since it's up for us to decide which of the two quotes are canonical, based on the information provided to us. It's our job to decide similarly to how Chee would decide if the issue was presented to him. And the fact is you know that he would agree Revan resisted Malachor. The alternative has far too many complications and inconsistencies, whereas resisting makes sense and is consistent with the idea he's not consumed until Vitiate. You're the one who is grasping since you so desperately want this passed, but the fact of the matter is it will be only my dead body.
And no, who the **** is checking it? ToyFaire likely provided the description and Hasbro just slapped it on. Do you think Chee is going up and down all the action figures making sure it's canonical? Wtf. We have proof that the Chronicles is confirmed by Chee. We don't have any of that sort of the action figure quote, so it's confirmation of canoncity is certainly up for debate.
__________________ "There is only Revan. Only he can shape this galaxy as it is meant to be shaped."
Right, but if the story group hasn't made an official ruling, it's up to us, and not being the story group, we aren't necessarily privy to the same criteria. You are aware that one of the criteria was "whatever explanation's cooler", right?
I don't have a copy of Chronicles right now, but when is that? Doesn't sound like it's from him chasing the Mandalorians.
And no, I don't have qualms with that approach, as I said. It certainly means you can give up the MW Revan >>> Nihilus nonsense.
Someone's obviously checking to make sure that he's not writing something utterly retarded on there. Whether or not it's Chee doesn't matter, lol.
Apr 20th, 2017 02:01 AM
