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LovelyOne
Senior Member
 Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
Will, Bill and the Knife (Spoilers)
Ok. This is just a theory of mine. Based on what I see in the current film and what the director has actually said himself. My apologies if someone has already figured this out and posted about it.
Ok in this movie we are introduced to Bill Turner. We are also introduced to his KNIFE and he gives his knife to WILL his son.
I have a feeling that this knife was introduced because it is going to be very significant in the final chapter and the very fact that it was introduced by his own father is also going to be important.
I also feel that what we see with Will in this movie..will ECHO later on in the next but on a much larger scale. The scenes involving Will in the latest movie.. dragged on a tad and seem unnecessary to the story..but If you think about how it could echo something in the future..then it makes them much more significant.
SO based on the interactions Will has with his father in DMC. Three questions are raised about what he is going to do in the next.
1. Is Will going to save his father?
2. Is it going to be Bill that saves his son?
3. What important part is the knife going to play?
I personally don't think the first one is the most significant based on what we have seen with the latest movie...I think that it's going to be the second and third questions which are more important.
The director himself has said that in the next movie we are going to see how Will's love story is Mirroring Davy Jones' love story..Davy lost the love of his life, she was uncontrollable like the sea..This causes davy to cut his own heart out. In the second Movie there are more than enough hints that show this is happening to Will and Liz. 1) Liz is turning into someone very free willed and untamable. 2)Various subtle hints that Will has this overshadowing, sinister destiny similar to Davy's (Tia's Hut)
(please log in to view the image)
Mise en scene - Notice how Will is the only man sitting as Tia tells her story of Davy (tia seems to know what is to become of Will)..the scene heavily focuses on him
I think..the most telling moment in this movie is where Will has just seen Liz kissing Jack...later we cut to the swamp...we hear a THUD..THUD...THUD...THUD like a HEART beating...or even a clock ticking down to a climax...It cuts to reveal Will angrily pondering over what he has just seen Liz do with Jack...and what else do we see here? The KNIFE!! This is basically TEASING the audience with the question "What is Will going to do with that knife if things only get worse between the two?" the thuds echo in your mind during that scene:
Will and the knife
Will and the knife
Will and the knife
So thats a pretty strong hint right there..Will is VERY similar to Davy. Ebery time Will is in that hut..there is a horrible, gloomy and overshadowing feeling that something is going to go very wrong in the future.
But the outcome may not be so bleak... Will's father is always there for Will in this movie when he needs it the most..he saves his sons life 3 times...He does something that will hurt Will but in the end cause him LESS PAIN. The Directors made this quite clear as they showed it twice in the movie(which seemed unnecessary at the time)..and once more subconsciously.
These scenes are the whipping scene, the game of liars dice and later on where Will is hanging upsidown when the Kraken is attacking Will uses the knife that his FATHER GAVE HIM to cut himself free. So his father..in essence saved will again. It could also symbolise that will sees this knife as a way to get free from trouble, so later he might see it as a means to relieve his pain over the loss of Liz (cut his heart out)
Also just before Bill gives his son the knife he tells him "A pirate is the destiny I NEVER wanted for you" So he feels pretty strongly against his son going down a dark path in the future.
So the way I see it. Will is going to come pretty close to becoming the new captain of the flying Dutchman by cutting his heart out but his father is going to step in and take the brunt of the pain. I also feel that he will put a stop to Will/Liz because all it will do is end on a bad note for Will no matter what.
Also what interests me in the latest move..Will seems pretty pissed that his dad came and saved his life during the game of liars dice..he said "It doesn't matter if I have to stay here..what matters is the key!"
Later I think that's going to be echoed in an argument with his dad about him intervening as he's about to cut his heart out..its going to be "I don't care about staying on the Dutchman..what matters to me is LIZ!" I bet he will be thinking.."liz wants to be a pirate..I can be the captain of the flying Dutchman..the greatest pirate ever!!!" His father will probably put a stop to it. Its clear that Davy never got his sea goddess of a wife back by trying to become a sea god himself..He's going to make Will see that cutting his heart out is stupid. BUT there is going to have to be a captain of the flying Dutchman..and Its probably going to be Bill who sacrifices himself for his son and takes over.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 31st, 2006 at 11:03 AM
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Jul 31st, 2006 10:49 AM |
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Lizziegirl
Forever A Dreamer
 Gender: Female
Location: California, PA |
That's an AMAZING theory! That all really seems to make sense. Granted, I'm a die-hard Will/Elizabeth fan (though it seems one of the few on this board, lol) and I'm kinda hoping they end up together, but MAN that'd make an interesting movie! Thanks for sharing 
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It’s always good in the end, and if it’s not good, than it’s not the end. Fight to the end, and you’ll end the fight.
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Jul 31st, 2006 11:19 AM |
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lovethemtigers
Senior Member
 Gender: Female
Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy |
LovelyOne you never cease to amaze me. This is awesome insight. You know, I was kind of wondering that myself but never really pondered it much...but I thought it was an odd scene where he gives Will the knife...now that's interesting....very interesting.
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 All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
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Jul 31st, 2006 11:30 AM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
LOL thanks guys..I could be completely wrong here though..so feel free to rub it in my face if I am in the end 
Also if you think about it. I don't think Will is going to ever be able to make his father human again because without the captain of the Dutchman there is no crew (they will die maybe?)..so allowing his dad to be the next Captain of the Flying Dutchman is probably the best happy ending his father can get. He's going to be free as he can be if he is captain. So in a way..Will is still going to save his daddy... That is going to be Will's strength in the future i think. To let his father go for the greater good. In my opinion its going to be about Will overcoming temptation to do the wrong thing..he is ALWAYS the good guy..and getting the chance to be the bad guy is going to be pretty tempting. I can picture him getting so frustrated at being the good guy and constantly getting screwed over by people he likes/loves that he will be tempted to put an end to it all..but his over all strength will be overcoming it.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 31st, 2006 at 11:40 AM
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Jul 31st, 2006 11:34 AM |
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*-=Fat sacK=-*
S.S.S Shagadelic
 Gender: Male
Location: Everywhere yet Nowhere
think about |
WOW
thats a great theroy it makes heaps of sence. You sure you havn't got inside information
But that theroy makes everything fall into place.
Thanks for telling us
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Aurum potestas est Gold is power
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Jul 31st, 2006 12:03 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
LOL thanks^^ I did film studies..so I learn to pick up on things..You have to look at every scene and see how it relates to the themes of the movie..and how it relates to every other scene in the movie AND how it MIGHT relate to scenes later on in the next installment.....Its hard work
I may be quite wrong and I'm willing to accept it
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 31st, 2006 at 12:14 PM
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Jul 31st, 2006 12:06 PM |
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katelovespirate
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
thats all completely bogus i dont know what you were thinking.... JUST KIDDIN, LOL....
As usual that is flippin awesome. LOVE IT ALL.  You are so clever.
Many many good points, i especially feel strongly about all the knife significance, which i hadnt really thought about that much- and the significance of him playing with it in the last scene.... yeah.
and exactly- the scenes with his father in this one seemed to drag, which only means they were major set ups for the next film.
this is great stuff. i am going to have to ponder it all for a while...
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Jul 31st, 2006 12:38 PM |
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katelovespirate
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
i have a theory that will really was turning piraty at the end of the 2nd film when he suggests they go get jack. he's playing with the knife, being ominous, then suddenly he seems to make up his mind to say something.... because he has decided he needs the pearl to save his father. add this to the fact he thinks Liz wants to be with Jack, and he's like, well, we can both get what we want this way. i can save my dad and liz can run off with the pirate. its an incredibly selfish suggestion on his part- he isnt just being nice to liz.
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Jul 31st, 2006 12:45 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
Thing is..if his story is to reflect Davy Jones then Will wanting to let Liz have Jack back wouldn't make sense..I think Will is going to try and get rid of Jack in the next one as soon as he gets him back. Him coming back is a small price he has to pay for getting the pearl back...and he's going to try and get rid of Jack IMO because Will still wants Liz..but knows Jack is the problem... So yes..thats very pirate-like of him..its going to hurt Liz for his own personal gain..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 31st, 2006 at 01:10 PM
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Jul 31st, 2006 12:58 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
Thats probably going to turn Liz off of Will even more..Its ok fo Jack to trick her because he IS a pirate and she has screwed him over more that once...She admires Jack for it too because it makes her more pirate-like..which she wants
But Will? for some reason I dont think she's going to accept it from him. She's never tricked him for personal gain and he's going to trick her..thats GOING TO HURT..so she's probably going to distance herself from him even more.
Also Jack..if what that leaked script says is true..Him turning Liz over to Seo Feng..Is this HIS way of trying to remove the temptation of liz getting closer to him?? I can almost imagine a confrontation between the two where they both realise that they are trying to get rid of eachother when they really WANT eachother..the penny may drop there..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 31st, 2006 at 02:02 PM
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Jul 31st, 2006 01:55 PM |
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lovethemtigers
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy |
OOOhhh Lovelone I like that thought...so sexy and full of sexual tension...both trying to get rid of each other to resist the temptation....the tension building and building and then giving in - can't wait it's going to be a great scene and hopefully, well worth the wait....
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All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
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Jul 31st, 2006 02:23 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
I know^^ my god that would be a hot scene: "You dont care about me! you gave me away"...then the penny drops.."you gave me away BECAUSE you care about me..and you are afraid of it..... there's no need to be scared of me Jack"
and then theres Jack:
" ...you ARE a pirate Liz..and its nothing to be ashamed of..you love me..and its nothing to be ashamed of.."
..ok too far...but I hope thats what happens
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 31st, 2006 at 02:35 PM
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Jul 31st, 2006 02:27 PM |
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jessigem
<3 who? ec.
 Gender: Female
Location: silverware |
yeah. . . . . . . Jack would never say something like that.
and in the last paragraph, when you said Will was pissed off at his dad for interrupting. . . i think Will was mad because his father had just ruined Will's chance at being able to save him. Will didn't care whether he won or lost. he just needed the key because as soon as he got the key he was going to kill jones' heart so he wasn't his slave anymore. i don't think Will wants to become captain of the dutchman. he knows he'd be doomed to the same fate as jones if he did that. hopefully the only thing he stabs with his fathers knife will be jones' heart or someone evil, because if he kills himself. . . . . i swear i will be one of the most devastated people on the planet at that moment. same goes for if he decides to kill jack with the knife(but then i won't be one of the most devastated, i'll be like one of the billions of devastated people).
oh yeah, and they actually made a game of liar's dice. i saw it at the bookstore along with LIFE: PotC edition.
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Jul 31st, 2006 04:40 PM |
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katelovespirate
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
Jack won't die. End of discussion.
Jack and Liz are the hottest thing ever. (i need to expand my vocabulary. LOL) I LOVE you guys's theory on them getting together.
I find it an incredible turn-on that jack gives liz to sao. thats so hott. i dont know why. i just got flutters in my tummy. (once again i'd like to state i am not a sadist and i dont support that) but seriously, how hott would that be. you are this confused little rich-girl turned serious out of control pirate with a lot of sexual tension, and the guy you have outrageous sexual chemistry with hands you over to some asain dude, with a cheeky grin, almost a challenge of, lets see if you can manage to get out of this. SO HOTT.
and yeah, they are both obviously trying to escape the mad chemistry and intensity of their complicated relationship/friends w/benefits/mentor and student/ rock stars of the caribbean thingy. its so obvious. please. LOL. that makes me so happy.
unless disney uses it as the reason why liz will go back with Will. then it wont be hott. then it will be like soggy toast.
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Jul 31st, 2006 04:47 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
and yeh Jack would'nt say it like THAT but its clear that he is liking the fact she's fallen for him..so he would probably say it but in a more jackish way..
and it would still be significant.. his dad would be ruining his chances of getting liz back by stopping him cutting his heart out..
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Jul 31st, 2006 04:51 PM |
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jessigem
<3 who? ec.
Gender: Female
Location: silverware |
i just don't want Will to kill himself with the knife. this is like, the ONLY movie of Orlando's that he's SUPER good-looking in(besides LOTR which doesn't count to me because he's wearing a white/blonde wig and i can't figure out why he's so hot in that movie, maybe because he's an archery expert. i really don't know)
so if he kills himself off in the 3rd movie, he might not be in the 4th movie. sigh. that would suck big time. (i need to expand my vocab too).
oh yeah, i amazed how this thread has turned into ANOTHER thing about jack/liz. and it's about will, bill and the knife. it's just so amazing it's mind blowing.
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Last edited by jessigem on Jul 31st, 2006 at 05:01 PM
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Jul 31st, 2006 04:59 PM |
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LovelyOne
Senior Member
Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba |
he wont..his dad will save him IMO did you not read my theory?
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Jul 31st, 2006 05:02 PM |
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jessigem
<3 who? ec.
Gender: Female
Location: silverware |
yeah i did. but they can't just keep resurrecting people from the dead(barbossa) or making us believe they're dead and then saying they're actually alive(jack) and putting them in near death situations and then having someone rescue them at the last second(jack in POTC1).
it's so nervewracking  but i guess it doesn't matter because in the end, the movies turn out great, right?
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Jul 31st, 2006 05:07 PM |
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katelovespirate
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
oh jack. i think his way of saying it is not saying anything at all, just looking at her like that. its very unexpected and sort of "hard core" jack, because he isnt acting drunk/gay whatever else he does to keep people off guard.
I’ve been wanting to post this for a while. This is my “debunking the reasons why liz and jack shouldn’t get together” post.
1. the age difference.
a. No good. Liz was all set to marry norrington (at daddy and the rest of the world’s approval) and he has to be at least 20 years older than her. There is no way jack is older than norrington. Plus, scarlet and driselle don’t exactly look over 25 themselves.
2. different backgrounds
a. originally Liz went for will, a poor blacksmith with nothing to offer her except a hott bod. And daddy approved. Jack is like, the pirate king.
3. Jack isn’t the marrying type.
a. He is the one who brought up marriage in the first place. When you find the right one, you become the marrying type. And it wouldn’t be a traditional marriage anyways.
4. Neither of them know what they want
a. This is okay, because everyone else around them seems to know what they both want. (tia, norrington, beckett, and liz’s dad)
5. moral centre, personal hygiene, etc.
a. um, Liz’s moral centre seems a bit off balance, while Jack’s is obviously in perfect working order. No one, including Liz, has good hygiene on a boat in the middle of the ocean.
6. Will
a. Okay this is a problem. The only thing we cant debunk. Bother. She and Will have like each other for a long time (though you cant imagine they knew each other all that well- it was adolescent, crushy love based on interesting circumstances of how they met and such.) and they were engaged to be married. Will would pretty much do anything for Elizabeth. Would she do the same for him???
Last edited by katelovespirate on Jul 31st, 2006 at 05:13 PM
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Jul 31st, 2006 05:10 PM |
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katelovespirate
Senior Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: |
PS why cant they keep resurrecting people? Xmen did it. LOL> and yeah, basically everything in the movie relates to liz and jack, so its only natural every thread becomes that.
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Jul 31st, 2006 05:11 PM |
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