I hardly ever meet a high and mighty Christian... I can't think of one I've ever met.
Of course they exist. No one would deny that, but I don't think they are common enough to be considered the norm for Christians. Quite the opposite I would say.
Why? I've heard people complain about being prayed for before as well, and I've never understood it.
I don't see the comparison. The example you gave is a rude little jab you take at someone. I don't see how praying for someone is similar. They aren't doing it with the intent to be hostile.
It is a rude little jab. Basically it's a passive-aggressive way for someone to try and end the conversation with the higher ground. Like ending a debate by saying "Well, one day you'll understand", it is as patronizing as you get.
I don't think that's the intent of telling someone you are going to pray for them. Not in general, at least. And besides, I'm not talking about ending a conversation with "I'll pray for you". I mean some people simply don't like having people praying for them at all. Just the knowledge that people are praying for them upsets them. I think that's what Deja-vu is talking about, though I could be mistaken.
Well, if someone is praying for me and never says so, i'll never know to begin with. Obviously, if it ever becomes an issue, they have to have said "i'm praying for you" at some point. Why would you say it to someone who doesn't believe, if your intention wasn't you tell them you're right and they're wrong. It would be like if me going to every christian I meet and saying "sorry but your mother is just in the ground".
Christians who are full of themselves are good at getting attention, just as {any group} of people who are full of themselves are good at it. I feel like in any group, this percentage of people roughly corresponds to the number of assholes in society...I doubt it's higher in any one group than another. I'll remain of that mind until I see actual evidence to support otherwise, not just anecdotal observations.
I'm being prayed for, incidentally. I always thank them. I'm sure it's cathartic for the pray-er, however useless it may be in affecting outcomes. It's either to make me Christian again or for me to get a full-time job doing something other than crap jobs. If they want to feel like God had a hand in it when I do get a job (which is a near statistical certainty given enough time and effort, both of which I've contributed), fine by me.
I'm really, really surprised that someone who generally has such a "love makes the world go 'round" such as yourself would that action in such a manner.
It seems pretty obvious to me that when someone who is a family member or close friend tells you that they're praying for you, it's a way of saying that they love you enough to pray for your salvation, regardless of what you believe.
The point is that it really doesn't matter what you think, if someone truly believes in God and some fiery damnation, and you're important to them, they're going to want to do whatever they can to save you, regardless of how you feel about it, and if praying is what will do so, that's what they're gonna do.
I really don't see it as some kind of gloat.
I mean, if a friend of yours told you that he planned to kill himself, would you seriously just be like, "alright well if that's how you really feel good luck with that", or would you do everything within your power to prevent that person from doing it?
Obviously, if you're the type of person who approves of euthanasia or whatever that's a bad example, but you get my point.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Last edited by Tzeentch on Apr 19th, 2011 at 05:21 AM
Right right, annoying Christians who are trying to save you or whatever are actually doing the "right" thing in their opinion. It's impossible for me to feel angry. Doesn't make it less annoying, of course, but it doesn't incite anger.
Kandy's initial comment was about the context of "I'll pray for you" more than the earnest intent, because it can indeed be snarky. Someone saying, "well, I'll pray for you" when I explain my atheism can be condescending. My great-aunt who prayed every day for months that I'd land a job in my field was nothing but endearing.
1. There's a difference between praying for someone and telling them you're praying for them. I'm saying, when you tell someone it is carrying the connotation "you're wrong". So just keep it to yourself.
2. This is not family members or close friends... most people who use that line on me barely know me.
That kind of sounds like projecting, to me. I mean, I've been told many times by people that they're praying for me, despite my consistent insistence that I'm not religious, but I've never taken it as some kind of patronizing statement.
Not saying it can't be, but... if we're diving into the realm of specifics and exceptions...
Pretty much what I said above.
Overall point I guess is that it really depends on context. Any statement can be patronizing or self-righteous.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
Well the only people who I really have heard it from is internet-evangelists, so, I probably do have a skewed sample. None of my family/friends are very religious so i only ever hear it as a disguised insult. I think people who hear it in that context, would be very skeptical of someone saying that.
No argument from me. I can especially see how throwing the comment out there in the midst of an argument can be patronizing. Like you said, it's akin to the "You'll understand when you're older" cop-out older people make when arguing with younger ones.
__________________
"The Daemon lied with every breath. It could not help itself but to deceive and dismay, to riddle and ruin. The more we conversed, the closer I drew to one singularly ineluctable fact: I would gain no wisdom here."
I agree context is important. It CAN be used in that way. But that doesn't mean you should get upset by the simple act of being prayed for. I means you should get upset when it is used in a condescending way. The simple act of being prayed for is not condescending or insulting.
The only real (I say that with extra emphasize because many aren't) Christian I know is the most down to earth person I've ever met. She's a fellow University colleague and she's pretty much the reason I'm able to defend Christianity and religion the way I often do. She's taught me a lot about faith.
And science. She's taught me a lot about that too. I know just how much you guys love to make faith and science black and white
Well I don't like being told that "I hope God does anything and everythng to you until you come back." It's like saying I hope all hell breaks loose in your life until you see the light again.
That's how I take it. Now if they want to pray good things about me then that's different.
It's my choice to believe as I like. I did believe as they did, but no longer do and everytime something goes wrong, they say, "It's because....." and "just come back to the church and everything will be fine."
I'm the sort of person that believes that there are power in words and energies, so no, I don't like people infringing and condemning me. I don't push myself on them or anyone else. "You don't even believe in god." I said, sure I do ( just not the same kind of thing) But I stopped arguing and just said, yes, yes, yes...blah blah...
okay are we done yet?
__________________ Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this bull before.
Last edited by Deja~vu on Apr 19th, 2011 at 12:15 PM
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Apr 18th, 2011 01:55 PM
Any statement can be patronizing or self-righteous.
