Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Well, Stan Lee's (TOAA's TOAA) visage was portrayed on panel bowing to Beyonder,
and Shooter (TOAA in SWI-II)
was part of Beyonder's discovery (the drop of water being the infinite Marvelverse)
... but these guys are yellow, so that ups the ante.
On a serious note, ...
these aliens don't belong in a vs match unless they're up against the same kind of 4th wall aura.
Like Byrne's She-Hulk who'll wipe her ass with em.
Or Dr Doom (kidnapped Stan Lee) Black Panther (manipulating comic panels) and several others.
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Last edited by Mr Master on May 25th, 2019 at 01:29 AM
Trano & Zaarn act as the direct agents of DC's RW staff -- the implication is that *only* the metatextual personification of the Supreme Being(as Morrison was in those issues) is beyond them.
They have some sort of power over(or at the very least total comprehension of) the Overvoid/Source... Which is beyond the story all together.
They seem to be fully omniscient, and know exactly how the stories are going to unfold... Likely because the Supreme Being allows them to read the script itself.
They can literally unmake a character and their entire story at will(narrative and all.)
I don't see this as a universal quantifier of power. Because, like Mr Master pointed out, there are so many instances of character breaking the forth wall. She-Hulk even killed her own writer, didn't she?
Not to mention that the Writer (character) was later retconned and killed. So it's just another fiction character that just happens to look and act like the writer.
This is something I see Beyonder doing with the snap of his fingers.
How's that different from, for instance, the Ultimate Nullifier unmaking things? Visually it's done differently, but the result is practically the same.
That was a completely different writer's perspective of the Supreme Being avatar from Animal Man. It was basically Ostrander bashing Morrison.
But in the Animal Man issues themselves(which is what the OP specified), the Morrison avatar WAS the very definition of a metatextual Supreme Being in comic book form. Surely I don't need to post scans, right?
Yeah, I suppose omniscient isn't the best word.
They are, however, privy to the fundamental elements of the story itself, and do seem to know how the story will play out: (please log in to view the image)
That's all I was getting at.
As mentioned, these were intended to be the direct agents of DC's real world staff. As such, only Morrison himself was implied to have any power over them: (please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)
Trano & Zaarn are fully metatextual, fourth wall-shattering beings -- that is literally their fundamental nature as characters. As such, they're only getting beaten if the Morrison avatar writes it into their story -- no one else is really 'above' them, imo. Now y'all can bring up She-Hulk and Doom slapping around writer avatars in a few Marvel books if you want... But it's not the same thing at all(I know it; you know it.)
Anywho, for all his massive power, Beyonder is still just a 'normal' comic book character, in that he still operates within the the fourth wall confines of a basic story. Trano & Zaarn are obviously not 'restricted' in such a way -- they run around in the Overvoid itself(a place entirely beyond the concept of 'story'.)
They really shouldn't be used in vs. threads for this very reason. Metatextual beings like this are ridiculous to try and argue against.
The fact that they're essentially acting as the hands of DC's real world staff is what sets their capacity for erasure apart from something like the UN, imo.
Metafiction is still just fiction. Going back to Animal Man #26, there's no actual interaction between the real writer and the character, the interaction is between two fictional characters (one of which is a self insert for the writer).
Breaking the forth wall, has never been a meaningful display of power. You can argue that Morrison did it with a more consistent approach to power, but no matter how many layers of metafiction are implemented the characters are never going to leap off the page. I'm not denying what these characters have been shown capable of, but I'm denying the legitimacy of extrapolating what they've been shown to do to something beyond the abilities of all 'normal' fictional characters, especially when said characters have displayed power and abilities on a grander scale.
For all intents and purposes, that character was Morrison. He made his intent crystal clear here:
(please log in to view the image)
(please log in to view the image)
Morrison's brand of metafiction is undoubtedly much different than most other comic book writers'.
That's just it. Trano & Zaarn aren't superior simply because they can break the fourth wall. They are superior by virtue of being the direct 'agents/hands' of DC's metatextual Supreme Being(ie. the real world staff.) As mentioned above, the actual comic book writer is the only being with power/authority over them, as they transcend the conventional concept of 'story' all together... That much is further evident by the fact that they can just chill in the Overvoid/Source without issue(a place where even an asininely powerful cosmic being like Mandrakk was instantly destroyed upon initial contact.)
...And regardless of how hyper-powerful Beyonder was, his power/authority doesn't supersede that of the real world staff. Ergo, how can he possibly defeat Trano & Zaarn?
That is the problem inherent in using meta beings like this in versus threads.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
^^ more like the entire Marvel creation aside from himself.
As for the aliens being different than She-Hulk:
It's the exact same thing imo,
drawings acting within comic book pages, no matter the idiocy implied,
only She-Hulk's feat was greater. The greatest feat of all time truly.
Any 4th wall breaker that can slap, intimidate, dominate RW staff avatars can match or beat these two.
Byrne's She-Hulk stomps though.
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Last edited by Mr Master on May 26th, 2019 at 04:13 AM
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