Revan strengths

He agrees with me btw Red (according to a private message I received from Ushgarak).

I think the misunderstanding on your part, Red, lies in the distinction you've made between solid data and my usage of probability based premises. There is no real distinction between the two as far as I was using them. The probability based premises could have just as easily been labelled as the solid data that determines that probability. However, given that the solid data might not necessarily have any direct connection to determining the probability of the conclusion, it could be seen as meaningless as a premise unless stated in the form where the manner in which it determines the probability of the conclusion is reflected in the premise. Understand where you went wrong this time?

So, as I was saying,

Spoiler:
YES!

As another example:

Pieces of data X, Y, and Z could be used to attain the probability of conclusion A being correct.

X, Y, and Z could all be factually stated in the premises, and could all reach a certain probability of A being correct. However, if X, as it is individually stated, has no real meaning to A, and the manner in which it impacts A can only be observed through the indirect connection, then the premise would be better labelled as a probability of something that has a clear and direct connection.

Note: The probability remains the same; only the wording changes between the different forms.

Originally posted by truejedi
i'm not going to waste my time debating your imagination with you period DS. You don't have one fact to substantiate your supposition, and all of the attitude you choose to throw in your posts isn't going to change that.

We all agree that Revan probably was powerful. I have him in the 3rd or 4th range of Sith all time myself, but you certainly can't prove it.

Once again, you scream speculation like it means anything. He was the first to plunder Korriban, he was the first to plunder Malachor V with "Troves of knowledge". I don't have to substantiate what he knows, just that it's a great deal from the two planets.

Originally posted by truejedi
Okay, one more time, and then we are finished.

You are right we are finish. This argument with you is stupid. You are jumping around contradicting yourself trying to prove a baseless opinionated point.

Originally posted by truejedi
How does it not? One is a force technique. The other is... A force technique. What the heck is your point? All drains are equal? That's BS and you know it.

Originally posted by truejedi
No. The ancient Sith are either held up on their feats. (and who they held in subjections is NOT considered a feat) or they are considered unknowns. You have no feats for Revan. You have no feats for malak. Who they held in subjection is not a feat. Especially when you don't know WHO THEY HELD IN SUBJECTION. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Originally posted by truejedi
My personal opinion of Revan is that he was a force Beast. Behind only Sidious and Bane, and possibly Caedus. But my personal opinion means jack. And so does yours. I'm merely pointing out that if someone chose to believe revan was the weakest sith ever, he would have just as strong an argumetn as you do.

Originally posted by truejedi
You are assuming they were powerful. What is the difference?

Originally posted by truejedi
I assume no such thing. What you said was "Sidious FORGOT to teach Maul force lightning."

Originally posted by truejedi
Prove to me that Sidious had the intention of teaching maul force lightning, and FORGOT. It was your claim, you back it up, i owe you no proof. I believe Sidious taught Maul everything he actually wanted him to know, and see no evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by truejedi
Once again, you trying to pretend all force-drain attacks are equal is stupid. Stop doing it. Nihilus's drain is the same as Malak's? Please.

Originally posted by truejedi
Because the second someone comes along and tries to speculate that KOTOR era people sucked, you go off on them, and start insulting them. I joined the argument because that level of hypocrisy is ridiculous. If you want to speculate that they were powerful (as myself does, in fact) go ahead, but don't get on someone else for insulting your favorite character.

The only opinion you are accepting is that Revan was powerful. I myself believe this, but if someone doesn't they should have a right to speculate on that as well. You treat every person who posts something other than your biased view of Revan like they don't know what they are talking about. Allow both viewpoints, or drop the "forcing your viewpoint" argument. Its sad. You are treating them like they don't know what they are talking about, when they have just as much evidence to support their view as you do yours.

What the Hell!! When did not I ever state difference of opinion was not welcome. You know you are contradicting yourself so much it is sounding like pure BS, I am done discuss this with you.

kotor3, respond to my post

Originally posted by Kotor3
Obviously you don’t know the difference between the two techniques. Please tell me how many Siths can you name that new the force drain technique? How many demonstrated use of the technique. When it was use how many cases do you have of a force user surviving the attack? Now let me ask the same questions about TK.

No, I have to disagree with you on this. It's not because person A knows that ability, that person B who knows the same ability can use this ability the same way with equal power.

N. also knows Force Drain, but that doesn't mean that Kreia's Force Drain is just as powerful. In fact, N. his Force Drain is more powerful, so it's not logical to assume that other people will be able to use this technique the exact same way as some other person.

Wrong it is you who don’t understand, there a list of feats for Revan, and I am not going to list them the hundredth time. You want to say how did Revan accomplish those feats, it does matter he did. You also want to say that Malak ruling over the Sith and the known fact that no one could defeat him is meaningless is you opinion. What about that don’t you understand?

You may give as many feats as you want, but they're all hollow. I don't know why you refuse to accept this, but most of them don't say much about his abilities in combat, because we haven't got a description about any of his fights.

Once again: Revan is a powerful individual, but we do not have any solid feats on him.

REX will want to punish some of you for rulebreaking...

It's 'REXXXX'.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Force lightning something Sidious forgot to teach Maul, force drain, to name some.

Originally posted by truejedi
I assume no such thing. What you said was "Sidious FORGOT to teach Maul force lightning."

Originally posted by Kotor3
Stop trying to making statements for me. I stated Maul did not known force lightning because we never saw him using it. You trying to imply that I need to prove that statement why, because you disagree if not then I moving on.

You know why we are done? We are done because you are a LIAR. I'm calling you out on it, because you are changing what you have to say in every single post. That is several cases worse than a hypocrite in my opinion

Revan doesn't have one substantial feat. The feats you keep posting, keep getting shot down, but you keep trying to claim they are relevant.

If the rest of your post made anything resembling sense, we could continue, but most of your "rebuttals" were non-sequitars.

But as long as you keep trying to pass off all drains as equal it tells me u know just about next to nothing about star wars. hell, even in your precious KOTOR, there are 3 different levels of force drain.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
No, I have to disagree with you on this. It's not because person A knows that ability, that person B who knows the same ability can use this ability the same way with equal power.

N. also knows Force Drain, but that doesn't mean that Kreia's Force Drain is just as powerful. In fact, N. his Force Drain is more powerful, so it's not logical to assume that other people will be able to use this technique the exact same way as some other person.

I have no reason to believe that Malak executing the technique would prove to be different since the technique only works in one way and also Malak used it I believe in conjunction with another force technique to drain the captive Jedi and replenish himself on the star forge. Showing he was quite adequate in using the technique.

Originally posted by Slash_KMC
You may give as many feats as you want, but they're all hollow. I don't know why you refuse to accept this, but most of them don't say much about his abilities in combat, because we haven't got a description about any of his fights.

Once again: Revan is a powerful individual, but we do not have any solid feats on him.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Once again, you scream speculation like it means anything. He was the first to plunder Korriban, he was the first to plunder Malachor V with "Troves of knowledge". I don't have to substantiate what he knows, just that it's a great deal from the two planets.

DSm what i'm asking you to substantiate is your claim that he was as strong as Yoda or mace. What evidence is there that he could do anything they could do, or vice versa? I could make the claim he was more powerful than NJO luke, and you would have an equally hard time disproving it, yet at the same time, i couldn't offer evidence to make it be true.

I don't mind discussing this with you, you won't claim you never said something i can go back and quote you on.

😆

Originally posted by truejedi
[B]DSm what i'm asking you to substantiate is your claim that he was as strong as Yoda or mace. What evidence is there that he could do anything they could do, or vice versa? I could make the claim he was more powerful than NJO luke, and you would have an equally hard time disproving it, yet at the same time, i couldn't offer evidence to make it be true.

i can't prove DS, that is my entire point. You are free to believe exactly what you want. I told you myself i see Sidious, Caedus, and Bane as the only 3 sith above him. I probably have Revan more at the combat level of say ROTS Anakin or something, but if you were just stating an opinon, then we have no problems.

EDIT: Though if i came in and said that i personally believed the KOTOR era was pathetically weak compared to the PT trilogy, and Revan was more on the level of... i dunno, Maul or Fisto, I wouldn't there is no way i could be proved wrong.

Originally posted by Kotor3
N is not a good example since he was more of a phenomenal than anything else.
However what you said is correct but here is the point that is being made, I only know of a very few people to used the technique leaving me to believe that it takes some knowledge of the force to learn and use the ability. Two when it has been demonstrated in use it has always had deadly consequences in which the force user that the technique was executed on never was able to defend against the technique. Use of the technique has never shown a defense and has proven to be more deadly than TK could ever be. That is my knowledge of the technique. If there is force users who have resisted then please point out the examples and I will stand corrected.

I have no reason to believe that Malak executing the technique would prove to be different since the technique only works in one way and also Malak used it I believe in conjunction with another force technique to drain the captive Jedi and replenish himself on the star forge. Showing he was quite adequate in using the technique.

N. is a valid example like anyone else. The point that TJ was arguing and that you would apparently not understand is what I just told you, that a technique is only as powerful as it's master. But I get your point, although if I really wanted to get picky (and include gameplay like some people here love to) then I could say that those insignificant Dark Jedi who attacked my Revan and Exile were also able to use Force Drain, with less lethal consequences.

I am glad you admit to Revan being powerful. Slash_KMC you keep being pulled in by others who try to make it seem that I am arguing that Revan feats can be used to compare him to others as if in a versus forum. That is not my argument. I thought I made that clear to you already. My argument rest with those like truejedi and others who say that there is no way to prove that Revan is powerful and that such a statement is pure speculation.

I've always said Revan was powerful, because of how Kreia and the other masters spoke of him (and I am sure TJ and the others won't call Revan average either). We just don't have the feats to substantiate this and you have said multiple times that Revan does have the feats to back this up, which he doesn't.

In the post I quoted from you, you said: "there a list of feats for Revan, and I am not going to list them the hundredth time. You want to say how did Revan accomplish those feats, it does matter he did."

It doesn't matter that he did, we need something to back these feats up. They are like I said, hollow. Hence why Revan is an unknown.

thanks slash, you summed my point of view up very nicely.

Originally posted by truejedi
i can't prove DS, that is my entire point. You are free to believe exactly what you want. I told you myself i see Sidious, Caedus, and Bane as the only 3 sith above him. I probably have Revan more at the combat level of say ROTS Anakin or something, but if you were just stating an opinon, then we have no problems.

EDIT: Though if i came in and said that i personally believed the KOTOR era was pathetically weak compared to the PT trilogy, and Revan was more on the level of... i dunno, Maul or Fisto, I wouldn't there is no way i could be proved wrong.

Yea, no. The KOTOR characters spent more time fighting than anyone during the PT era. There were 4-5 wars during the KOTOR era.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
How would Bane be above him? What he learned, he learned from Revan, Nadd's holocron and Darzu's holocron, whereas Revan had the fresh tombs of Korriban and the underground cities of Malachor. The force knowledge doesn't compare. The same goes with Caedus. He knows more esoteric techniques than anyone else but his dark side techniques end with what, a force choke?

knowing a technique isn't necessarily the same as being equally good at it. You cannot try to pass off that you know for certain that whatever was in the tombs of Korriban and Malachor was more than what was in the three Holocrons. If it is your opinion, that's fine, but don't try to pass it off as fact, say it is your opinion, like i have done with every opinionated statement on this thread.

Second, just because Revan had more knowledge (if he did, which i doubt) it doesn't make him less powerful than Bane. LOTF Luke has had access to very little force knowledge, Yoda had access to the Jedi archives for 900 years, Luke has still shown many more powerful uses of the force than Yoda did. Bane has shown more powerful uses of the Force than Revan. That's how.

Lastly, its hard to prove that if there WAS knowledge in those places. (my revan didn't find ANY force-knowledge in Korriban btw, I found only weapons and armor... Did you find anything knowledge related in your short stay on Korriban? I saw nothing to suggest that there was force-knowledge to be learned there)
But, if there was knowledge, why do we think that Revan learned it? He was on Korriban a very short period of time, time enough to turn the academy against each other, and then kill everyone, then he was gone. He was in a hurry to leave Malachar in order to go to the unknown regions, so we don't really know that he sat down and learned force knowledge there either.

That is my opinion DS, he is 4th. You can't reallly prove that it isn't true, and my apologies if this entire convo between us is supposed to be completely in the realm of probability instead, just say so in the next reply, and i will proceed as such.

If you take gameplay into account, then Revan, Bastilla and Carth combined have trouble beating a few petty sith troopers. And then later on they can barely take on a wild animal the size of a lion. And oh yeah I haven't played the game for a while but I don't think that Revan could jump. And in Lego Star Wars Jar Jar Binks could hyper jump, so Jar Jar could beat Revan by hyper jumping up a balcony of a floor of a building and then running inside, and Revan hasn't shown the ability to destroy objects that he can't "target", so he just sits there and waits. Meanwhile, Jar Jar all of the sudden comes out with a blaster pistol, and since Revan is caught flat footed he doesn't get to add his dexterity bonus. Jar Jar has been shown to have lots of dumb luck, so he scores a critical and injures Revan, and then keeps on hitting him.

Originally posted by truejedi
[B]knowing a technique isn't necessarily the same as being equally good at it. You cannot try to pass off that you know for certain that whatever was in the tombs of Korriban and Malachor was more than what was in the three Holocrons. If it is your opinion, that's fine, but don't try to pass it off as fact, say it is your opinion, like i have done with every opinionated statement on this thread.

Second, just because Revan had more knowledge (if he did, which i doubt) it doesn't make him less powerful than Bane. LOTF Luke has had access to very little force knowledge, Yoda had access to the Jedi archives for 900 years, Luke has still shown many more powerful uses of the force than Yoda did. Bane has shown more powerful uses of the Force than Revan. That's how.

Lastly, its hard to prove that if there WAS knowledge in those places. (my revan didn't find ANY force-knowledge in Korriban btw, I found only weapons and armor... Did you find anything knowledge related in your short stay on Korriban? I saw nothing to suggest that there was force-knowledge to be learned there)
But, if there was knowledge, why do we think that Revan learned it? He was on Korriban a very short period of time, time enough to turn the academy against each other, and then kill everyone, then he was gone. He was in a hurry to leave Malachar in order to go to the unknown regions, so we don't really know that he sat down and learned force knowledge there either.