Gender: Male Location: The Fortress of Solitude in Venus
Blah blah blah Quan.
You have a doubtful feat of free will and want it to make it into a legit feat of infinite will, while ignoring the FACT that his will has failed in the great war and the Hell's civil war.
You ignore those fact because as always you think you have a solid case, when in fact you don't.
The evidence presented to you of an herald defying the will of 5d imp is relatively more impressive than a Multiversal entity defying the creator.
Mind that 5D imps were not affected by the COEI and yet the Creator and Hell were affected by the COEI.
But this will get always lost on your reading comprehension skills of an 8 year old kid.
It's been described as infinite will. I say he has infinite will because the comic clearly states it. I feel having the will to ignore the Maker's function for you illustrates it feat wise. You keep raising ridiculous question after ridiculous question which has nothing to do with free will itself.
Lucifer's power is next to nothing to the Maker's. The Maker is all powerful so he can kill him if he wants but Lucifer's will didn't break unlike Superman's. That's the difference. Superman's will has been broken while someone far weaker than him powerwise Batman resisted longer DUE TO SUPERIOR WILLPOWER. Powers have nothing to do with it and even by your own logic Batman far outclasses Superman.
You can insult all you want. You know I am right. Others have given me props despite their hatred of me because I am 100 percent right. You're wrong and don't even understand what willpower is. You believe since the word power is right behind will that this comes down to formidability.
Gender: Male Location: The Fortress of Solitude in Venus
Lol Quan, I gave my vote to Lucifer from start and I conceded Lucifer wining based on hierarchy.
But his feats of will are doubtful at best and his will has failed in the great war and Hell's civil war, there is no way around that.
What it bothers me is you trying to parade this vs multiversal entity fight of will as a "Superman sucks" kind of thread and if anything is just brings light as to how his will is one of the greatest in creation.
If I were a blind fan of Superman like you are with Thanos I will have bring the Example of Superman ruling hell in one of his comics and claimed.
"Since Superman sit in hell's throne it means Superman has infinite will, like Lucifer" same type of argument you tried to shove on another closed thread.
It does not change the FACT that his feats of will are dubious at best. So your case was not solid since the start, We are just smart and We don't let fanboyism to cloud our judgement.
No, they aren't doubtful at all. You simply don't understand what willpower is. His willpower did not fail in the great war. Not at all. You really don't grasp what you read.
I am saying Lucifer wins. You agree. Then you want to cry because you yourself admitted Superman loses. You said it. I agreed and then you went on to argue with me further because you're mad at yourself.
Bring any feat of willpower you want. That pales in comparison to Lucifer's best. Hell isn't close to the Maker. So who cares. We've seen Superman's will falter.
The ruler of hell didn't create all of reality. The ruler of hell isn't all powerful. You really need aid. You say the silliest things.
By your own logic you believe power has everything to do with willpower you're lost. But the best part is by your own warped logic you think Batman destroys Superman since he is nowhere near Superman in terms of power. I disagree with your logic but according to your own you believe this. Awesome.
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Last edited by quanchi112 on Jun 8th, 2012 at 12:35 AM
You asked for an example and then complain when I do so. That's an example of his willpower being broken. I can definitely post more but it's an example of his will breaking. This is relevant to the thread.
Gender: Male Location: The Fortress of Solitude in Venus
Believe me My reading is much better than yours Quan.
You though "expunging bacteria" was an attack, so, please lets not get into that, because it will be really painful to you, loose vs someone whose English is not his native tongue, but understand much better what Imperex meant. So please, lets not get into that.
I did not wen't into "crying" I just pointed out how funny is that You have to bring a multiversal level entity STATED to have infinite will, in order for you to have a sure win, which is hillarious
Not really, We also know Lucifer's has falter as well
Imps destroy Multiverses and have no change after the COEI what is your point? Hell, even the Presence imagination was challenged by the Anti-monitor, what does that tells you?
LOL, No I don't think Batman's destroys Superman's will. I think Batman's will is to be respected specially since he goes with out any powers and challenges metas. I think his will is awesome, but I also think Superman's will is "awesome" as He challenges Multiversal entities. But in no way "destroys it"
"Awesome"? Dude you are 33!
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Last edited by Rao Kal El on Jun 8th, 2012 at 01:03 AM
They all count. I never said they didn't. I am saying Superman's willpower can be overwhelmed. Superman/Batman/Hal Jordan are peers. Superman isn't on his own level. It usually varies from writer to writer. I accept all showings so in some instances his will is great and in others it falters.
I am honest about my hatred of Superman but I won't just say anyone beats him. I like Gladiator and give Superman the win over him.
Then how do you account for times when he's shown a resistance to more powerful forces?
It comes down to averages Quan; he has more good showings than bad, so we use the average. The average is that his will, more often than not, is as great as any in creation. ANY, in creation.
His will isn't as good as Lucifer's. Superman is a peer to Batman. Superman has peers in his universe while Lucifer does not. You criticize me for discounting certain showings. I accept them all. His willpower is great it's just not unbreakable.
Take for instance a sports team. You don't just look at their wins and forget their losses since they weren't the average. I am not saying Superman loses to a scrub and has shitty willpower I am saying there are those better than he is imo. Those who have not broken.
I am accepting his high showings as well. Not once did I say his willpower was bad. In some stories he's superior to Batman but not all the time. That's my point. His will can be broken like Batman's can be broken. They aren't unbeatable. I am saying yes Superman is capable of resisting to the point other peers have fallen but there are other instances where his peers have bailed him out as well.
My point was his willpower can be broken. Take a sports team. We don't ignore when teams have beaten them and pretend they are unbeatable by just looking at their championship runs. That's my point. All showings count. When we factor them all in Lucifer looks more impressive. Superman has more showings but Lucifer's feats are of higher caliber and his willpower has never broken.
Take two boxers. Let's say one boxer is undefeated at say 29-0 while another is 35-3. There are other factors present other than their records like competition, etc. I am asking you to ignore the other variables for a moment to make a point. My point is the guy with an undefeated record is more impressive based on theory alone than the guy who has 3 losses but has won 35 fights. Both are powerhouses but one guy doesn't have a single blemish while the other guys average is winning but he has lost so he isn't unbeatable. The other guy seems unbeatable at this point in his career.
That was another example of me taking the words literally but is besides the point here. You need to stay on point here. You don't grasp what willpower even means.
Their powers aren't in this thread so even by your own logic you should say Superman wins. You claim his willpower is more impressive because he has less power and in this thread no one has any power. I don't have to do anything. You have been inconsistent. You claimed Lucifer wins but your logic supports the notion you believe Superman wins here.
Give an instance where his willpower has faltered. Lucifer isn't unbeatable nor have I claimed that.
The point is an imp can destroy Superman due to his powers. Forgetting who he is is based off of willpower. You are mistaking the two. He retained his will in your scans but that has nothing to do with his power just like Batman's feat against the Trans has nothing to do with overall power.
You abandon your logic. I knew you would. The trap has been laid out. You champion that logic in the case of Superman vs. Lucifer yet abandon it with Batman and Superman because you're not consistent. I am.
Willpopwer has nothing to do with overall power. How many times do I have to say it ? If someone with the Spectre's power wants to kill Superman he can't resist it due to his willpower. He can resist his personality being altered due to great will power. Once you grasp what willpower is then come back to this thread.
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Jun 8th, 2012 12:02 AM
