Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
OMFG dont tell me they are using the reset button thing..OMG I really think they are! *am pissed and shocked*..so DMC was dare I say..."pointless" and AWE is the real story??
I cant see how it would work if they are becasue its only usually successful in TV shows and TV dramas..not trilogies and movies..thats just a bizarre thing to do!...I honestly dont think they are doing that..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Nov 17th, 2006 at 11:50 PM
I tried to find it, but since you can't search the wordplayer forums ... well, I am sure I read it as a statement by one of the authors and if I should stumble across it again, I'll post it here, I promise.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
thanks ladyofthesilent...I've been banned from word player till the 20th lol
Misty...its when thy kill off a character so that things can be reset back how they were before all the development happened in an episode I think
I cant see how this can work in a trilogy where movie 2 is a cliff hanger..but notice how all 3 characters in move 3 (draft script) are pretty much back to how they were in movie 1/start of movie 2 before anything in DMC happened?..Will hating Jack..Liz wanting Will...Jack being typical Jack??
It may just be used so that they can follow the same pattern of development again in AWE, start from scratch to keep things interesting for a 3rd..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Nov 18th, 2006 at 12:10 AM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I remember Terry saying if you hated DMC..you are likely to utterly loathe AWE..meaning its probably gonna be pretty similar in terms of story telling/development of all the characters in DMC..#
I think this may be a sort of reset button but not so that J/E can be erased but so they can start an interesting story again where all characters are at odds...if J/E were all over each other from the start of AWE then there would be no chance of them developing closer together by the end of the story. They are keeping it interesting.
but what worries me is writers often do this when they want to end something they think could potentially ruin the series in the long run..maybe they think Jack being with Elizabeth would have ruined the continuation/success of Jack as a character(typical Jack we all "love" )..they may have thought "lets give it a go, then reset it"
I wonder if they realize thats NOT the case J/E is now massively popular..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Nov 18th, 2006 at 12:27 AM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
actually...No I dont think this is a reset button being used..it kinda is..but I dont think its one that means J/E has been erased..its just knocked back a whole bunch
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
no I dont think so..it wouldnt work with a movie going audience..they never do this in movies....they do with James bond but there is no James bond story where its split into 2 movies..each bond movie is basically its own new story..the only time we get a flash back to another JB story is when Jaws comes back for a cameo..at least I think he does..
PotC is massively different from series like James Bond or Indiana Jones because, like in Star Wars or Harry Potter, there's a continuation in the movies, they're linked to each other and are actually telling only ONE story (not three different ones which are not interconnected).
What happened in DMC (especially between J and E) has to be important to the series as a whole; now I doubt they used this to make the W/E romance more interesting. J/E and especially Liz lusting after another man (because that's what she did) ruined the W/E relationship forever and TnT are not THAT stupid: They know what they've written and I believe they intended to show that W/E won't work out.
Now this doesn't mean we'll get a J/E ending - but I am almost sure the ending won't be W/E, either.
J/E opened up a lot of possibilities for AWE:
1. Jack was obviously willing to give up his freedom for another person - and he wanted to be a good man (again). Elizabeth's betrayal of his trust (and love) will influence his decisions in AWE (and from what I've read here also his actions in purgatory). This, of course, has to be resolved. Jack won't end up frustrated and desperate ... he has never been rewarded for being a good man - but I think that's exactly what will happen in AWE!
2. Elizabeth has to come to terms with the fact that her relationship with Will is falling apart and that they're not good for each other. Elizabeth doesn't want to be a proper wife and mother, she wants freedom and that is what the sinking wedding dress symbolizes (according to TnT). Furthermore, she has been reckless with other people's hearts since we met her for the first time (think of poor Norrington) - I think it's time she'll get a little heartache herself!
3. The conflict that arose from Elizabeth's actions on the Pearl has to be resolved. J and E have to talk about the kiss and the fact she chained him to the mast and I think they'll ultimately have to find out whether this was a beginning or an end. I do see both possibilities, actually ...
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
I agree that they can't just flat out say they aren't doing the hero's journey steps. No matter how creative a story, the main character ultimately follows a path laid out by the first storytellers. There are some things that are in every story, especially action ones that involve quests and completing a mission, etc.
No offense to the great writers of POTC and Shrek and whatever else they've done, but they don't seem to get certain things, you know?
Well, actually I believe that TnT know what they're doing ... after all, they wrote some pretty succesful movies AND they have to answer to Disney for what they write. And Disney (or Bruckheimer, for that matter) would never approve of a script which would appal a large part of the audience. Disney wants to earn a whole lot of money with AWE - so they have to make a really fantastic movie almost everyone will like. TnT knew that from the beginning and I am pretty sure that's what they wrote.
Now the "Hero's Journey" has been discussed on KttC and KMC - TnT probably read that and wanted to tell the fans that it is not possible to predict the plot of AWE by following the classical steps of the hero's journey. I wouldn't worry too much about that quote ...
And we have to keep in mind that Jack Sparrow is not a traditional hero. He's been dubbed an 'anti-hero' by the writers. That doesn't make him any less heroic, or his actions less admirable. It only means that he won't conform to the traditional hero's path. More than likely, he struggle deeply with the events that led up to his death and as a result, he will more than likely deviate away from the typical steps.
More than likely, I think what the writers were trying to suggest with their quote about the steps was that their story, while it does compare with many great works of literature, cannot necessarily be pigeon holed into a specific category. There is danger in trying to compare POTC to other works. For example, I fell into the trap recently of comparing Jack to Huck Finn. While they share certain similarities, the stories and the characters are entirely different, behave in different ways etc...In short, we can't make the assumption that POTC will go in a certain direction simply because it's a fantasy or heroic film.
And while we're on the subject of assumptions, let's clear up some assumptions about the writers. It's a dangerous habit to categorize the writers of POTC as stupid, or as not knowing what they're doing simply because their responses have seemed unpredictable. The fact that DMC had so much wonderful depth and ambiguity seems to indicate the very opposite of the belief. These writers are original, well-read and remarkably intelligent, and it would behoove us all to stop critcizing them every time we hear rumors that function contrary to the group theory.
They're going to write a story that will be incredible. There will be twists and turns. Jack will not act in the expected way, nor will he behave like the typical hero because that would be boring! Would anyone really want to see Jack behave like Will all the time? Always morally upright and doing the right thing? No. And because the 12 steps are patterns that have been established in literature for the longest time, if he were to follow the steps exactly, that would murder his character and relegate him to a boring, predictable pattern.
Originally posted by Lovelyone
............nor will he behave like the typical hero because that would be boring! Would anyone really want to see Jack behave like Will all the time? Always morally upright and doing the right thing?
In short, the writers are absolutely correct not to follow the twelve step pattern with AWE because part of what makes Jack so interesting is his unpredictability---his ambiguous moral landscape. For that matter, that's what makes all the characters so interesting. If Elizabeth's actions at the end of DMC been predictable, we wouldn't all be here discussing POTC in the forum. Why criticize the writers for something that at it's core, is correct? That's all I'm saying. I think we need to let go and trust that they're going to write they possibly can, to create a story that makes sense with the path that the movies have taken thus far. They're not going to jerk the rug out from underneath us. They've as much as confirmed most of the symbolism in DMC. All of that is pointing to a specific direction that they know, and it will be a satisfying conclusion---12 steps fulfilled or not.
They've said that they enjoyed writing the characters in such a way where they struggled to navigate the morally ambiguous pirate world. That means that the characters are going to struggle to find their path. They'll find it in the end, but the path may or may not be where we expect, or want it to lead. It has to make sense with the development.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
you know why I think they said they aren't using them?? its because they have cut them off at certain points by the end of DMC..each character appears to be at a different step. 2/3 is one big story..As I've said many times..I think they are just continuing from where DMC left them all off, Jack didnt even complete them before the movie ended... They aren't starting from scratch with AWE, they are just starting from where they left off possibly.. I think that may be what they mean..Or I may be wrong..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Nov 18th, 2006 at 07:58 PM
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