Parallel Timelines which comprise ALL REALITY ... the Universe they (the Linear Men) oversee is actually Part of a Multiverse, (Hypertime) an Infinite Realm of Parallel Worlds"
I never compared the scope and depth of DC's Reality with Marvel's.
I also never said that Marvel Megaversal threats can affect DC, in fact only LT has been seen handling Megaverses.
Just Read more Comics and it's quite easy to undestand.
Marvel has an Omniverse = ALL the possible Marvel Realities.
DC has Hypertime = ALL the possible DC Realities.
Actually AM destroyed Universes that were a Fraction of ONE Universe.
continues in the next post....
__________________
Last edited by Mr Master on Feb 13th, 2007 at 04:03 AM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Darthgoober on the Anti-Monitor
PART ONE
Ok, I've been doing some research into the whole COIE ordeal, and I've come to the conclusion that there's NO WAY, AM could win this fight. You see, as it turns out AM DIDN'T have the power of a near multi-verse. What he had was the power of a SINGLE large universe. Need proof? OK take a look...
See, when one of the positive matter universes were destroyed, the anti matter universe expanded. AM didn't get all the power of the destroyed universe, his own universes power just increased. And that's what he got, the power of the Anti Matter Universe. He even says it himself, check it out...
So he has the power of 53 million worlds, with more that 2 million of them containing life. Now I'm pretty sure that Marvel has never released an exact number on the population of the multi-verse, but given that there's an infinite number of universes within it, I feel safe in saying that there are more worlds(inhabited, and uninhabited) within Marvel's multi-verse, than there is within the anti matter universe. And what does that mean? Well that means that ME has MORE power to draw from, and is therefore more powerful.
(Now to all of those that are arguing for AM absorbing Multi Eternity, I would just like to point out that he NEVER demonstrated the ability to absorb a standard universe, only an anti matter universe. Matter and anti matter cancel each other out, so if he HAD tried to absorb one of the standard universes, it would have probably destroyed him. So he WON'T be absorbing any part of ME.)
Now as for the big show down at the dawn of time, I want you to take a look at something...
Well look what AM says in the first and second panels. He used his energy to breach the Wall of Creation, and NEEDED the life energy of DC's heroes to complete the next step. So apparently, the power he absorbed, wasn't even enough to complete his plan. So even if AM got the chance to go back in time to try to destroy ME, he wouldn't have the power to do it when he got there.
Now for those of you who are bound to point out that it took the Spectre to stop AM, well I have come up with 2 possible answers as to why that was necessary.
1. At the time, the Spectre simply wasn't as powerful at the time as he is now.
2. (And this is the one I believe) It was the single BIGGEST PIS showing in comic book history. Need proof of that? Well look...
Now think about that. The Spectre is backed by God, but for some reason he needs the power of some sorcerers to turn the tide? The way I figure it, DC needed someone that was more powerful than all the heroes put together for the big climactic showdown.But Kismet (DC's Eternity) hadn't been introduced yet. So who did DC have that fit that description? Spectre.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
PART TWO
Second of all, everyone who's a big DC fan, should get ready to HATE me(if you don't already), because I've discovered something that's going to PISS you off. However it will also explain how the Anti Matter Universe, was able to expand and become more powerful, while retaining it's original size(which I already covered in my last post). Just remember, I didn't come up with this stuff, I'm only pointing it out.
Now we'll start with the beginnings of the DC Multiverse(I've included the first two pages of it's origin for anybody who doesn't know it, but the important stuff doesn't start until the third scan)...
Now the reason I say that the third scan is more important, is because it shows the universes overlapping to a degree, without actually interacting. Why you ask? Because the universes that made up the DC multi-verse, weren't laid out side by side, they were kind of stacked within the same space, and were separated by vibrational wavelengths that kept them from actually interacting with each other.
This is first mentioned on the first page of the first book...
See at the bottom it says that the universes were vibrating and replicating. Now I would also like to bring your attention to the part(in the same narration box), that says "what should have been one became many", because that's about to be important.
So what does all this talk about the universe fracturing and the resulting universes being separated by vibrations have to do with anything? Well I'll get to that after I show you these scans, which point out something important about the multi-verses origin...
This is from the first book. Look at what it says in the upper right hand panel. "The universe once divided into many parts...Each one different, independent, yet somehow WEAKER than the whole". What does this mean exactly? Well to put it bluntly, it means that even though DC at the time was a multiverse, it was a weak multiverse that only contained as much power as a single universe. And before anyone tries to call BS on the fact, here's the Monitor saying the same thing in the forth book...
"The universe was split apart at the dawn of time...each part WEAKER than the whole it was meant to be". He also says that the universes are separated by by vibrations and time.
When all of this is taken into account, here are my theories on the matter...
About AM's power increasing with the destruction of the positive matter universes... Well his universe obviously didn't grow outward and actually become larger(because of the dimensions given for it and because of the impossibility of an infinite number of universes being placed side by side). It would be more accurate to say that it grew in DENSITY(it's the best word I could think of to describe it). It became more real, and more like the ORIGINAL universe in overall power.
This also means(and THIS is what's really going to piss some people off), that even at the height of his power, AM wasn't even as powerful as a SINGLE intact universe(because there were still 5 universes left out to complete the whole). So not only could he not take Multi Eternity, he probably couldn't take the universal aspect of Eternity either. His power falls just shy(5 mini universes to be exact).
Before everyone starts attacking me as a "DC hater", let me just say that I've spent the past three days going over all this stuff, but there IS a chance I missed something. So if anyone has any evidence which goes against all this, feel free to bring it to the table, and I'll address it. Also, I have no idea, on how powerful DC's universe is NOW. All this stuff relates only to the power of DC during COIE. I'm not saying that Marvel's universe is STILL more powerful.
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Ur way off buddy. This splitting of the DCu was retconned. this is not how the dcu split. TRY AGAIN. ALso later the spectre who merged with the presence said that all of existance was realities over lapping each other infinitely. Not side by side. this was also a later retcon. I already went over this same theory some months ago. Crono wasn't punished for splitting the universe. he was punished for releasing entropy via retcon.
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What exactly is ur point? frst off, we don't know how many realities crona destroyed. But u trying to say he only has the power of one unverse is waaay off any way. that's lke sayng eternity can just go and kill kismets universe with ease. NOT. Chrono killed universes with ease. ONe has to be much more powerful than the power of a universe to kill a universe. also you forget that metron and the gamesmaster are prolly the smartest and most knowlegable beings in comcs. You really think they would have gathered all those multiversal items to barely beat a beng wth only universal power? WTF.
Last edited by nvrbeenwthagirl on Feb 13th, 2007 at 05:33 AM
I see that I don't need to prove my "theories" because you proved them for me.
How?
You say it yourself "DC's Multi-verse becomes ONE Universe" thank you for proving my point.
AM did not have the power of one whole Universe but he had the power of the whole DC Universe except 5.
So DC had one Universe, fractured (Multiverse) or whole DC U, it still is equal to the Marvel Omniverse as you admitted, so the feat of AM is equal to the feat of destroying almost the whole MArvel Omniverse, except say 5 Megaverses.
When you say that AM is below Eternity, or one Marvel Universe, you also say that One Marvel Universe is equal to the whole DC Universe in this case.
If you can show me one DC Comic where it is stated that DC is an Omniverse or Megaverse I will overthink the might of the Anti-Monitor.
So Marvel works on another scale then DC but they are still the same when it comes to power.
As said, DC's Multi-verse becomes ONE Universe is 100 points worth
Marvels Megaverse is also 100 points worth
Can you live with this?
If you want to add feats or compare them find something more logical then the word Universe, because both Companies think different about their cosmology.
Take Math, 85/100 + 3/5 = 17/20 + 12/20
I hope you may understand this better.
If DC and Marvel work on an Crossover they can't simply say that DC is just one "fractured" Universe and Marvel is an Omniverse. This would irritate people, so they have to find the same number, the "lowest" possible, so they go on with the word Universe (the Marvel Universe and the DC Universe). Krona threated both, so he is more powerful then the Anti-Monitor, we agree on this btw if you haven't noticed.
So Krona threated both Companies whole Universes as the greater universes per se or because if he would have destroyed the Marvel Universe and the DC part-of-the-universe (or Earth - 1 reality) he wouldn't stop and finish the other Elseworlds and Universes of both companies. After all he stated that he absorbs the power of each universe he destroys.
Basicly you said the same as me. DC's Multi-verse becomes ONE Universe (common knowledge btw) while Marvels Universe is an Omniverse both are equal (as shown in the DC vs Marvel Crossover). So it wasn't possible for the Anti-Monitor to destroy an complete DC Megaverse or Omniverse, because you can't simply destroy something that doesn't exist, however, he was on his way to anhillate the whole DC Universe. Anti-Monitor was an DC-Universal threat, this has nothing to do with Marvel. To threat the whole DC Universe is the same as threatening the whole Marvel Megaverse.
DC showed us later that the New "Universe" (from the original 5) that was formed, is still a "Multiverse" (or 1 fractured DC Universe, or Hypertime, and there isn't more then one) not only with IC but with Elseworlds and Worlds Funnest . Still each reality is reffered to as an Universe (though it is an fraction of the "greater" DCU, as shown in the JLA/Avengers Crossover for example).
In the end we see Metron and Grandmaster in an empy space between the companies (or between the DC and Marvel Universe) and both vanish or retreat to their home-Universes, leaving the newly created Universe (DC-Marvel Universe) behind. So Krona is the new TOAA/Presence of a newborn Universe, independent to both companies or Universes. Maybe DC can mess with Krona in the future but it can't recton the Universe created through an Crossover without Marvels helps, like Marvel can't recton the Brothers without DC allowing it.
I hope you stay friendly this time, I prefer an "friendly" debate.
You all may have guessed that I'm quite new to the Internet-Forums, I'm not used to hostility or insults while talking with people, like in the real life. This is an new experience and it's hard to get used to. It reminds me sometimes of car accidents, sometimes when there is a crash one person comes out of the car shouting and insulting the other one, it doesn't matter whose fault the accident was, the person thinks to be right and starts insulting the other one. If the other person comes out and is weaker or smaller then the "aggressive" one, the hostility won't end, if however, the second person comes out and is bigger and stronger the hostile person will be quiet at once, think, and become friendly..... Here on the internet everyone is save and can show his "true" face, he doesn't has to fear consequences, which shows how sad humanity has become. I wish sometimes that most people on the boards would treat each other like "real" people, like people who sit in front of them, I'm sure the insults would almost cease to exist. BTW guy22 is till now one of those few persons I respect most on this board, in my short time here he was always friendly to everyone. We should all follow his example. I'm aware of the fact that I'm rambling, but I wanted to explain this ecause I have still hope for humanity.
Maybe I should leave the internetboards, it may be an amusing experience but it is also an sad one and maybe not worth it.
I like both though DC became more appealing to me two years ago.
Anyway, I don't take insults and hostility, on forums, too seriously. I have just the need to explain myself. Like a real Forum n00b .
Entwicklung der Menschheit
Einst haben die Kerls auf den Baeumen gehockt,
behaart und mit boeser Visage.
Dann hat man sie aus dem Urwald gelockt
und die Welt asphaltiert und aufgestockt,
bis zur 30. Etage.
Da saßen sie nun, den Floehen entflohn,
in zentralgeheizten Raeumen.
Da sitzen sie nun am Telefon.
Und es herrscht noch genau derselbe Ton
wie seinerzeit auf den Baeumen.
Sie hoeren weit. Sie sehen fern.
Sie sind mit dem Weltall in Fuehlung.
Sie putzen die Zaehne. Sie atmen modern.
Die Erde ist ein gebildeter Stern
mit sehr viel Wasserspuelung.
Sie schiessen die Briefschaften durch ein Rohr.
Sie jagen und zuechten Mikroben.
Sie versehn die Natur mit allem Komfort.
Sie fliegen steil in den Himmel empor
und bleiben zwei Wochen oben.
Was ihre Verdauung uebrig laesst,
das verarbeiten sie zu Watte.
Sie spalten Atome. Sie heilen Inzest.
Und sie stellen durch Stiluntersuchungen fest,
daß Caesar Plattfuesse hatte.
So haben sie mit dem Kopf und dem Mund
den Fortschritt der Menschheit geschaffen.
Doch davon mal abgesehen und
bei Lichte betrachtet, sind sie im Grund
noch immer die alten Affen.
KMC Community Forums
Feb 13th, 2007 03:50 AM
. Still each reality is reffered to as an Universe (though it is an fraction of the "greater" DCU, as shown in the JLA/Avengers Crossover for example).
