I don't know, there has been so many Anti-Phoenix's it's kind of hard to tell. Claremont was pulled from the book before he got a chance to finish whatever he was doing.
Nah, I don't like any of Claremonts recent work. I think having a counterpart to the Phoenix makes sense though, it creates balance. If he turns out to be Jamie Braddock made Flesh then I'll have to like him.
Well If Jamie's to return then the First Fallen will have to return at some point in the future, but chances are that will only happen once this Phoenix thing becomes less convoluted and Jean gets all her fragments back and gets a cosmic mini of her own. Or the other extreme, Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force are wiped from Marvel Continuity forever.
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Last edited by ExodusCloak on Jun 11th, 2007 at 11:14 PM
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I was just doing a random search and came upon this thread, I think it would have been interesting to see Jamie become the avatar of the First Fallen, and in this form I doubt he would be able to beat Phoenix since he represents stagnation and is opposed to what the Phoenix does. Since the universe has come and gone and come and gone etc, the first fallen is constantly loosing his battle with the Phoenix, Jamie did not warp the White Hot Room he just pulled Rachel and Psylocke out of it, if in fact that was the white hot room, I thought it was too, but after rereading the issue it's only Rachels guess that's where they are. I also find it strange that he made Psylocke immune to reality warping and telepathy, yet she was obviously affected by the reality warp that created the world she and rachel were transported to. She thought she was princess of England along with everybody else, she had false memories about spending time in some old ruins until Rachel showed her that the ruins were something else (before the warp). For such a powerful reality warper who can manipulate quantum strings so proficiently, he has surely fallen short since Psylocke was warped like everybody else, she was able to be possessed by Nocturne and Rachel was able to link telepathically with her in the First Fallens realm to see what the being truly was. Now there is this crap in Exiles where she can become invisible by messing with her bodies molecules (she should not be able to become invisible in this manner because Jamie is so powerful right?)instead of just shunting light around herself. Her psi link with Brian was also still intact, but I guess that doesn't matter either.
Look from what I know about Phoenix and Jamie Phoenix chances of winning are lesser then my ever saying that a single Celestial would solo Galactus anywhere anytime.
He warped her room like it was childplay, he created a universe from basically nothingness, his by panel feat on level with (possibly beyond) MJJ and If you think that Phoenix would stand any chance against MJJ then I am fearing for your mental health.
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The fact that you would see a teleportation effect as a reality warp already brings your mental health into question. What exactly did he warp her room into, if he warped it what did it become after this warp? Are you saying he warped the WHR and changed it into the reality that Rachel and Pyslocke found themselves in cause that didn't happen. I saw him pull strings using Rachels holemapthic crystal as a link to teleport the girls into an already warped reality that was beyond his power since his sister whom he "protected" from reality warps was profoundly affected. What universe did he create? Looked to me like he was just mucking with a universe that already existed since Excalibur was popping from reality to reality. When somehing that MJJ did other than the Fury sticks without him having to be alive then maybe I'll consider him, not to mention how utterly irrelevant he is in this matter.
Jamie created a universe from nothing? so then he is more powerful then MJJ in your opinion who needs something to warp reality right?
Jamie can't even keep Rachel from telepathically linking to Psylocke in his masters realm, she was made to be immune to telepathy even communication but there was no strain or resistance on the part of Rachel and if you say it was because Psylocke let her, that's crap her quantum structure was supposed to be wrapped so tightly that nothing in the form of telepathy or reality warping could get through, but it did.
And for the record Rachel and Psylocked appeared to warping wherever they were, being able to one minute see nothing and in the next seeing different versions of themselves, I say they did more warping of the room then he did, but where you see a warp I see teleportation because that's all be accomplished from pulling those strings. Is it because he is a reality warper? is that where the idea of him warping the area they were in comes into play? What did he warp it into, when I hear reality warp I think of some kind of change to the environment, and furthermore if they were in the WHR they existed outside of reality in a blank slate, the heart of creation if he did warp this place I don't see that as him being powerful it was a white room with nothing in it how hard could it be to warp if it's the WHR then it's the center of creation where things are made, give me a white room and some paint and I'm Jamie Braddock.
Last edited by LordKaos on Jul 2nd, 2007 at 09:17 PM
The Watcher did say it, I think it was when she died on the moon. Of course he failed to notice that it wasn't even really Jean who died at the time, so I wouldn't take his word for anything regarding Phoenix.
was this befor or after she was retconed?
becaus if it was befor.
its definetly hard for the watcher to know it was not realy her if the writers did not even know yet.
Before. I know... even the Watcher can't be expected to know when the writer is going to mess with the story. But he does end up looking stupid when he misses these things all the same. He is powerless against the retcon.
And yet some would have you believe he created that entire universe.
Based on what?
The fact that he shot down some stars? Certainly not from on panel statement or depiction.
Within a reality warpers reality warp, the laws of space and time need not apply. Whilst within a warp, the space could appear limitless, however from outside the warp, the area the warp covers could be as small as a telephone box.
Look at the M'kraan crystal for example. As big as a bus looking at it from its outside where the laws of time/space apply, but from inside its confines are limitless.
So him shooting down stars does NOT equate to him having created that universe, especially when its clearly shown that his power only ever created an avatar and the city on that alternate Earth. It is they that disappeared when Jamie got distracted and stopped applying his power within that other reality.
If youre told that Jamie created another universe, ask for evidence where thats stated and ignore a theory based merely on the fact that he shot stars down out of the sky within his reality warp.
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Jun 11th, 2007 11:05 PM
