Funny you try to act like nvr was always right and was just bullied into being banned in a ton of threads...
"laughing laughing rolling on floor laughing Out of the horse's own mouth.... Nvr, Nvr, I 'trash talk' as you put, because you are an imbecile and you're the only one who doesn't realize it. Not one of your points hold up under close scrutinization, and you have been caught red-handed in a lie several times. Darth goober stomped you, Juntai stomped you, bigbran stomped you, and I stomped you. Just stop please, it's funny watching you pull arguements out of your ass and I admit it's been entertaining. BUT...., it's just not working out between you and me. smokin' So, farewell dear Nvr, may your fanboyism and pigheadedness find a better dance partner than I. Because it's one thing to debate with peers and equals. It's quite another to run circles around an imbecile. Have fun, and please, try to acquire some humility. angel laughing"
whoah what kind of biased marvel fanboy said this o wait it was trick.
I agree good account. However, my point still remains.... It took a war that cracked time and space, it took him dying, the ALE which also cracked time and space for him to do anything in FC correct? Those weren't things he planned nor had any control over. Those things happened and thus of course we all know what happened. Him falling caused all these things to happen but it wasn't his plan nor under his own power. To me it was more about his importance or role in the universe and thus him dying caused all this shit to happen. The fact is though a lot of what did happen couldn't have happened under his power alone. He couldn't have done anything like what occured had those events not played out the way they did. He didn't wave his hand and start collasping the multiverse they TP and Nvr were trying to say. That isn't the case at all and it wasn't him doing most everything on his own is the point I was making. Events had to occur that were out of his control and not his power. That to me is about importance not a display of power.
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Depending on what's being argued here, I don't know if I agree with Phil's synopsis or not.
Regardless of whether Darkseid's true form hadn't been seen until Final Crisis (it hadn't, I agree with), that has no bearing on his power level displayed in Final Crisis with respect to his other showings.
The only thing which controls the true form of the New Gods is their Boom Tubes, which as stated on panel and alluded to in GM's Secret Files, adjusts the size of the New Gods both when they enter the mainstream dimension and when others travel to 4th World.
However, increase in size =/= increase in power. There's zero correlation there. For example, Orion entering the mainstream universe is roughly Superman's physical equal. And, as we've seen...in 4th World - thus, in his true and full form - he is still roughly Superman's physical equal. Size makes no difference. What did make the difference is that Darkseid had the ALE and was being amped by at least three billion human worshipers plus whoever he was controlling remotely on Oa plus the various dark gods of Apokolips.
And we've seen Darkseid die before, and it didn't take Radion, the personification of Death, and two plot devices to accomplish it. Again, I think the difference in FC was his mastery of the ALE, granting him the power to reshape the multiverse in his image and override The Presence's gift to sentients (free will.)
I think as Orion's physical form increases so does his strength. In his own series, he grew to a massive size then put a beating on Apokolips. I don't think he could have done that in his own strength.
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The ALE had nothing to do with it. This time, it was his true form being manifested in our universe. Every other time, it's been in the 4th world.
Excuse me? Superman and Orion as equal? Are you forgetting that every time the boomtube has been involved to make them equal? Otherwise, you have beings on the scale where planets are marbles.
Kurupt: just shut up, troll. Your points have been eradicated before.
The ALE was not how the multiverse was crushed, merely how Darkseid was controlling wills, souls and minds. The multiversal upheaval was caused by the true form of Darkseid crashing into the DCU, and then grabbing onto it and dragging it down with him in his death throes.
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As Trick said; the ALE/all other external variables, had nothing to do with the actual doomsday singularity. It was Darkseid's mere presence in the mainstream multiverse which caused that.
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Last edited by Galan007 on Jun 20th, 2009 at 12:46 AM
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Again, I think I agree with you, if what you mean is that it was Darkseid's true form which was the cause of the multiversal singularity, under his own power, etc etc. That is true. However, it took so much to kill him and he was so powerful because he had the ALE to strip free will from 3+ billion beings and gained power from their worship. Which is the point I wanted to express.
I don't know if you understood my point. In Orion's true form, in 4th world, Supes and Orion were about equal. Yes, Supes' size was increased via the boom tube in order to interact with everyone. But he was still Superman-level physically. He didn't get any power increase along with the size increase. Which was the point I wanted to make. Size doesn't relate to power. Orion was physically equal to Supes in our dimension when he used the Boom Tube to shrink his true form, and physically equal to Supes when in his true form, too.
There's no evidence to suggest that simply because one shrinks their size they also shrink their power. I mean, Darkseid didn't have have a physical form and was dragging the multiverse into his singularity. There can't be a connection between physical size and physical power.
I hope you agree. Or at least realize that I'm doing my best not to be a troll.
I agree.
But I thought OneDumb's arguments on the subject were very well presented and could also be interpreted that way, too.
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I know. Apparently my other post wasn't clear on that matter. But I wasn't attributing the singularity to the ALE. I was attributing DS's power and his...resiliency to death to the ALE.
So are you saying you were ignorant at the time and nvr was actually way more informed than you? Nah. He was getting pwned all over the place and the fact that you place yourself below him really makes you seem like a weak debater imo. It doesn't help that you usually just throw out "you're stupid if you don't agree with me" instead of debating like that recent x-force thread where you called me a troll for expressing opinions contrary to your own when I was by no means the only one who thought x-force could win.
I said he could beat Darkseid not that he could solo Apokolips. You're thinking of Master Court. Also you did not argue outside of the following:
A. Claiming the other posters were crazy
B. Saying that Darkseid's bad showings are PIS
C. Unsupported statements about Henshaw being stronger then an entire team of ridiculously powerful heralds which you didn't support with feats at all.
I didn't realize that "he doesn't agree with me" is full justification for calling me a troll.
As opposed to you who admit you were wrong about just about everything you believed in at the time. Maybe we could learn from your mistakes better if you debated instead of just saying that everybody who disagrees with you is biased/sock/troll/stupid.
No he was pwned because he was wrong about almost everything and would lie all the time. You seemed to agree but it seems you become more mired in DC bias each passing month.
Okay first off I actually try to put work into arguing, using scans when I can, trying to back things up with evidence as opposed to you who seem to only put effort into debating when it's in a tourney and still fail pretty badly. And I never call people stupid until their logic has actually been shown false.
Second I have been arguing against biased posters longer than Quanchi was even on this board. I am in no way associated with him but we both like to try to crank the DC bias in some posters down a bit with powerful arguments, clear thinking, and fact based analysis.
I am in no way a marvel fanboy I give about the same number of wins to both marvel and DC. On the other hand I don't remember the last time you gave marvel the win in a thread but didn't say it was a spite/troll thread. And you barely give Darkseid a loss in anything whereas I have said Thanos would lose in a variety of threads.
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