This is fundamentally flawed logic, since ortals have defeated gods all over fiction before.
Feng has never actualy done the feats in any of his endings, so thats moot.
And I'm getting tired of repeating this... Jin and Kazuya didn't shater that glass by the force of their punches.... For crists sake, it was the stompdown that leads into that that caused it, Akuma does this regularly and with far less effort.
No doubt. I wouldn't say it's farfetched Feng Wei can demolish/sunk/crumble (like anyone knows what happened) an island of unknown size, when it took him 5 second or less to do this:By the way, the "Fist of the Dragon" scroll, like in the Kung Fu Panda movie, just turned out to be a fake one having the message similar to "find the power within you" so Feng Wei recieved no power upgrade. This isn't confirmed to be canon although nonetheless is a display of his pure strength, unlike Akuma who needs ki to do all his overrated accomplishments.
*Waits for island is >>>>>>>> greater than Tekken volcanic rock in size*
The feat is NOT official, it never happened, and Feng has no supporting evidence to back him up, whereas Akuma has at least 3 official endings reguarding his feats, and they are those he actually DID do according to the story.
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"I have become Death, the destroyer of worlds..."
Last edited by Darkstorm Zero on Jan 1st, 2010 at 09:45 AM
Actually it wasn't the stomp, after they throw the second punch it caused the same kind of destruction if you listen to the sound effect and they didn't stomp the ground the second time. Also if it was the stomp they would've crushed through the roof. But I agree about God being more of a title. Still Devil Jin or Devil Kazuya would definitely beat Akuma. Feng has a decent punching feat in his ending, dont see any reason why it wouldn't be non-canon, and even it for some reason it isn't it's still a display of his strength level, kinda like Bryan destroying that tank. Akuma would obviously stomp Feng but he's NOT out of Kazuya's league. Who takes it can be argued.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Last edited by SamZED on Jan 1st, 2010 at 11:04 AM
The 2nd punch led to the title screen Sam.... Please don't try that again... The stompdown caused the tiles to break and the cracks spread from there, not from the punch itself.
Fengs ending is non-canon as it is dependant on him finding the Godfist scrolls, this was later confirmed not to happen anyways, since he never even fought Jinpachi, nor was he even remotely involved with any of the events involving Azazel, so the molten rock thing is also out... The fact is, he never did anything besides kicking Asuka's dad around.
Not to try what again? The second punch did lead to the title screen but the sound of the fight was still on that's why I said judging from the "sound effect" and judging by it it was clear that it lead to more destruction and they didn't stomp again the second time. Seriously, it doesnt even look like stom had anything to do with it, the stomp just barely damaged the ground.
What does his tekken 6 ending have to do with tekken 5 scrolls? You made a wrong connection here. In tekken 5 he tried to find the scrolls but failed thus the mounting thing was not canon because he used the dragon power (or whatever was that) and that was made clear in the ending. His tekken 6 is a whole different story, there wasn't even hinted that he used the power of the scroll, it was just a random clip of him training and had nothing to do with his failed tekken 5 quest, so this feat is no less canon than Bryan taking that tank apart.
Also saying that Akuma is out of Kaz or Jin's league would be wrong.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Your refferencing Feng's endings, well the moundain was due to the scrolls, and the Tekken 6 ending is non-canon, so it's irrelevant waht it shows.
As for your sound effect argument, your trying desperately to sever the connection bitween the step in and the punch itself, there is no way a missed punch can do that, there is nothing exerting the force into the glass EXEPT the stompdown.
Bryan rippin apart the tank however was confirmed official, thats the difference.
And I never said Akuma was above and beyond Kazuya and Jin, but the difference is EXEEDINGLY obvious... AKuma more often than not would flatten either one of them, even as devils, simply because he has all the attributes needed to do so.
I can't describe how laughably wrong this part is.
Check Feng's prologue (yes prologues are canon) which confirm he did find the scrolls, which give no power upgrade whatsoever. All they (or, it) were was a sentence telling to dominate every fighting style and make it his or her own. Feng's Tekken 6 ending does not depend on any non-canonically achieved power, just as Bryan's T6 ending displays are from no upgrade and only serves as a showing of what said character can do.
That is why by the way I don't debate forumers like toi, never bothering to check if what he posts originates from his ass or real evidence.
Also, there is no clear evidence if the blows or the stomp did what was shown. Don't see why it matters. It definitely seems like it was the punches, but, no that can't be it, right?
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Last edited by FWahMaN on Jan 1st, 2010 at 03:17 PM
Man, I just don't see how you put one thing to another. How does his tekken 5 ending prove that tekken 6 is not canon? Asuka's ending in tekken 5 isn't canon, but it doesn't prove that she never fought Lili during tekken 6. Feng's Tekken 5 ending wasn't canon. What was canon is - he found the scroll but it didn't give him any power. His life didn't stop then, he kept fighting training and entered the KOIFT 6. And a clip of him training in tekken 6 is canon, nothing says otherwise. If it showed him beating Azazel or using the power of the scroll you would've been right, but he didn't he was just training and destroyed that boulder under his own power.
Actually it is you who are desperately trying to downplay the feat because it's a good display of power for Kazuya and Jin and you don't want that so you're arguing the obvious here. Jin and Kazuya throw the punches, it cause the shockwave, then they throw another and there's another shockwave and that is clear from the video, go check it out again. Im not even arguing, simply stating the obvious. Turn on the sound when Kazuya and Jin throw the second punch and see for youself.
What atributes? You said you dont think he's beyong regular Jin or Kazuya but think he'd take them even as Devils? Looks like a controdiction to me. He does have a longrange attacks advantage over regular Jin and Kaz, but if it were a Devil Jin I dont see how he stands even a slightest chance. D Jin just puts up a forcefield around himself like he did when he oneshotted Azazel and tk ftw.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Akuma is TK-proof, haven't you heard? Akuma would also shatter that forcefield. We don't know how strong that forcefield is, but it doesn't matter. The fact a certain person is punching it means it's going down.
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Last edited by FWahMaN on Jan 1st, 2010 at 03:36 PM
This post is edited from what it was originally. Now taking an even more non-bias approach:
First, click on HD to see clearly, if the HD option is there. Not that it's needed.
Somewhere in the middle of 1:27, a shockwave is clearly emitted and then goes to screw up the windows of the building. The stomp undeniably was before said shockwave was released, although whether or not the shockwave was a result of the stomps or punches (or both) from what I can see is speculation since there's probably a fourth of a second in between the stomps and the punches. Nonetheless, the fact there is a huge gap in the video between the stomps and the punches (as a result of slow motion) seems the producers want us to believe the missed blows caused it. In other words, it could just be their way of saying it was the punches and not the stomps.
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Last edited by FWahMaN on Jan 1st, 2010 at 03:55 PM
It's clear to me the shockwave came from the punches, but it I admit it's a little hard to see from that video, that was the point of my second argument. In the video above the scene goes to a black screen and the result of a second punch isn't known, but the thing is - there's ANOTHER version of the video that was released before this one. The scene also goes to a black screen but the sound of the battle is still ON even though we don't get to see what happens. Here's that part of the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6RdMYUI9Fk
From the sound it's 100 % clear that the second punches caused the exact same effect even though they didn't stomp the ground, so it's safe to say it were the punches not the stomps, and imo it's clear from the video.
Case closed, gentlemen.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Last edited by SamZED on Jan 1st, 2010 at 04:51 PM
Yes you have a point there, but the question is now what glass did they break? The glass on the building was already broken due to either the stomp or missed punches or both, so was it the glass already broken that got shattered again? (and the fact people are acting it makes much of a difference is amazing since I can't even say the glass breaking due to missed punches is that much more impressive than it breaking because of stomps Jin and Kazuya made to approach one another ) and the fact this is (or may be later on) compared to arguably a full-powered attack by Akuma doing God knows what to an island of fan-speculated size is even more amazing, but I'll not go there this time.
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Last edited by FWahMaN on Jan 1st, 2010 at 04:55 PM
By the way, my post is finalized now. Gotta get going so I can't wait for your reply. Peace.
Oh by the way, I'm asking since I think you're saying the glass-shattering sound is given again after the second punch, so this would imply glass was shattered, AGAIN. So I'm wondering which glass broke this time. It seems to be all the glass was broken already.
By the way, I don't think it's safe using the second punch argument. IIRC those actually CONNECTED, so even if they produced the same effect they are different than the first in that they connected.
The other interesting thing to note is one cannot judge things from appearance alone. For example, Jin jumped in the air and punched the ground. That only managed to crack it. One cannot say well then, his stomp would have the same effect. False. Jin and Kazuya stomping/missing each other's faces screwed a building's exterior. Logical conclusion is that Jin's ground punch was not his best one.
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Last edited by FWahMaN on Jan 1st, 2010 at 05:06 PM
True, it doesn't make THAT much of a difference, still doing something like that simply by waving your hand is more impressive that doing it by applying some physical force (even if it's a simple stomp) Dunno, what it broke (does it really matter?) what matters judging by sound it clearly caused at least as much destruction as the previous one. Also even when they throw the first punch it's clear what the stomp caused (ground breaking and some pieces flying up) and what ONLY happened AFTER they actually throw the punches (a visible shockwave shattering and sending every tiny piece flying the hell away from the roof)...
Also we don't see if they connected, I mean it looked like the first punches are going to connect too but they dodged at the last second. But since the lack of a proof isn't a proof we should concider that they connected and even then that's still more impressive because no force was used directly on the building.
And yes I think the punch Jin threw after his bike was broken was FAR from his best one.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Last edited by SamZED on Jan 1st, 2010 at 05:18 PM
He never actually appeared in Tekken 6, just as canonically, Heihachi never appeared in 5. Your trying to chain an event that is not proven to exist. If he where capable of these things, he'd be completely unstoppable because nobody in the entire series has strength anywhere near that high, even Bryan, the one with the highest canon strength feat, would be utterly pulverised by bountain shattering, burning boulder splitting attacks.
Sam, your sounding bias very badly... I'm not downplaying it, I'm just not going to overzealously say that "Holy shite! their punches missed but look at all that damage!" when it is clear that even landed blows didn't even do that. You guys are too easily impressed. The fat remains, the punches themselves did not cause that damage.
There is a few things wrong with this. First, Kazuyas COMLETED Devil in T2 was defeated by Heihachi, this was before the split and one half went to Jin. To say that these Devils are leagues and leagues beyond their human forms is utter luncacy. Examples are everywhere.
For me, Akuma in strict hand to hand against Jin and Kaz id indeed very close, the Devils too. Al 3 fighters are well accomplished, experienced, and very poweful. Akuma does have the overall speed edge, as well as strength and actual precision (Again, fighting against Gen who is a master of pinpoint nerve strikes several times proves this) does give him a sizable edge, and this is before anything to doo with specials/super arts/ultras.
Once we start factoring in Ki control and specials and stuff like that, the gap does tend to increase phenominally, Jin & Kaz in their regular states are well beyond regular humans in that they have abnormal physical endurance and the Mishima Lightning enhancing their physical attacks, but Akuma is an energy breathing monster. Earth shaking with powerups, and stomps, purple flame inducing hits, thrown ki energy attacks, and specials that wipe out anything the Mishima's could do. Dragon Godfist vs Gou Shoryuken, the two comparable moves from the characters involved in the match, the Godfist is powerful, relatively safe, and is Kazuya's trademark. The Gou Shoryuken though, goes higher, does relatively good damage, hits multiple times, is in every way faster, and in some cases immolates with purple flames, AND is shitloads safer to use.
never displayed any kind of hatred towards DS. All I did was try to back up some of the characters I believe are underrated on the forum. Sorry if it looked like an insult.
That was nothing more than an impressive punching feat by tekken standarts and saying that'd make him unstapable is just wrong, heck even Asuka displayed an impressive punch in her (though non-canon) ending and she's a chick. The kind of punch id yet to see some SF top tiers display. And im not trying to chain anything, just stating the obvious. Feng participating in tekken 6 tournament is canon and a fact (not that it has anything to do with the ending). One can argue it but the solid fact is - the ending shows Feng Wei displaying his power. He does it under his own abilities, no amps, no upgrades, during a training and it in no way controdicts the story of the tournament, so it's legit in evety possible way and can be used in a vs forum.
Fair enough. I shouldn't make sucha big deal out of it, especially since it doesn't make the feat that less impressive, although it's obvious to me it were the thrown punches that caused the destruction and there are several evidence in the video that back it up. But whatever, there's no further purpose to argue that.
Ok first of all, that's an a>b>c logic and it shouldn't be used in a vs forum. Second, Heihachi never defeated the Devil. Just because it happened during the gameplay doesn't make it canon. And there are many proofs that Heihachi never met (let alone defeat) the Devil. It was regular Kazuya he tossed into the vulcano, not Devil and there were NO signs of transformation. Second it was clear that the event in honmaru was the very first time he encountered the devil persona and he had no idea who that was. Just a further proof he never fought the Devil. Also it took Devil Kazuya a single tk blast to take hachi down, and that wasn't a full powered Devil, saying that Heihachi could've defeated the Devil is laughable. That display of Devil's power also proves that Devils really ARE leagues and leagues above their human forms.
Distance attacks aside, im glad you're not arguing that Kazuya and Jin are a match for Akuma in exp and power but your belief that that makes them close in Devil forms is where you're mistaken for reasons I stated above. Speed is a liitle factor here seeing how Jin easilly took care of someone like Raven (whose speed is beyond almost anyone's ive seen in SF) and who could finish the fight with just one stab. Jin beat him without getting a scratch and didn't even look tired, if he can handle THAT kind of speed I dont see why Akuma's should be a problem. As for ki based attack, while they give Akuma advantage over regular Jin or Kaz they'd be pretty much useless against Devils. I don't see how they'd do any better against Jin's forcefield than any other attack. Also Akuma is not tk proof, i believe that several tk blasts (that knocked Heihachi out within half a second) would definitely take Akuma out despite his crazy durability. He just has nothing to counter that with.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Last edited by SamZED on Jan 2nd, 2010 at 09:29 AM
For now, I'm only posting this tidbit because it's nearly midnight and I'm tired...
Akuma has dealt with TK before, From someone far more ept with it too, in the for of Oro, who moves all kinds of stuff with his mind. And Bison who has all kinds of mental powers... Akuma wasted Bison, and was only really sparring with Oro. He also defeated Gill, who posesses a hugely vast array of wonky powers.
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Jan 1st, 2010 07:44 AM
The second punch did lead to the title screen but the sound of the fight was still on that's why I said judging from the "sound effect" and judging by it it was clear that it lead to more destruction and they didn't stomp again the second time. Seriously, it doesnt even look like stom had anything to do with it, the stomp just barely damaged the ground. 
Looks like a controdiction to me. He does have a longrange attacks advantage over regular Jin and Kaz, but if it were a Devil Jin I dont see how he stands even a slightest chance. D Jin just puts up a forcefield around himself like he did when he oneshotted Azazel and tk ftw.
) and the fact this is (or may be later on) compared to arguably a full-powered attack by Akuma doing God knows what to an island of fan-speculated size is even more amazing, but I'll not go there this time.
