i was under the impression that shang chi retraining logan in some flash back wasnt part of the main 616 U but x-men 1st class story line?
and Elektra was helping logan regain control when he was in his feral i am a sh#@ tossing monkey phase and even then Logan out fought her in the training sparring and even held his own with stick prior to fighting elektra. elektra has needed a distraction to get near logan in eots and even then logan wasnt himself he was being mind controlled.
wolverine also regularly fights uber Ma'ers and wins tanks their blows as easily as he does 100 tonners. a few ppl have actually taken logan down but compared to over 30 some yrs his win to loss ratio to them is still above the loss record.
It's PIS when it happens, but not PIS when he stands up to someone super-strong, even though they both happen about as often? Sorry, nope. It's too consistent to be PIS, he has never been immune to street levelers, ever.
Wolverines power is not invulnerability, it's just healing, which is different in that it doesn't grant immunities against foes, it grants faster recovery time. It is set up in a way so that people strong and weak can hurt him and vice-versa (IMO one of the brilliant things about the character). His adamantium reduces massive blows, but that doesn't change you could hurt him a lot with a precise strike that, say, stops his heart or ruptures something.
And punches from street levelers still crush organs.
The Iron Fist makes Creed's claws look like a joke, but it is still not all that hard to do damage to him. The damage heals, but he still feels them, can still take some time to recover from them, and they can still take their toll and leave him worn out. Because Logan is still non-invulnerable flesh.
Spread out over a wide area. If he hits, he's also unlikely to get more than a glance, and it'll almost certainly be a place with plenty of adamantium. Unlike a jab to an organ. Danny goes heart, kidney, etc., the places that'll disrupt Logan's body the most and cause the most effect even while healing. Hulk goes ribcage, whole side, etc.. A lot of pain, sure, but mostly to muscle and adamantium.
Let's not forget, single hits from the Hulk have KOed him too.
The problem for Wolverine, is that Danny presents a unique challenge that no other person can bring. Super human speed, agility and reflexes, elite top of the food chain martial arts and the ability to amp and throw a class 100+ punches. Repeatedly. At super speed. Kicks too. If a punch from a class 100 brick liquifies Logans insides imagine what hundreds of them would do.
You say, Danny will get gutted. I doubt it. Danny even in his non amped state can dodge automatic gunfire at near point blank range. And as I said, and panel evidence backs me up on this, Danny is one of the most elusive heroes on marvel earth. I can't see him getting tagged by Logan.
And finally, it comes down to CIS. Logan brawls 90% of the time and also tries to tank most stuff instead of using his elite skill set. That, and the aforementioned facts, would help lead Iron Fist to an easy 8/10 kmc victories.
logan also dodges bobs and weaves automatic gunfire at point blank range..
wolverine also has enhanced speed reaction time wolverine also brought it to betsy and nearly killed her and she has many of the same attributes as IF with her TK amping, TP abilities... and yet she was unable to put logan down. Danny up close will sliced just as easily as he was able to do to psylocke...
Logan Cis chances with is the opponent he is fighting and the knowledge of them.. he will not fight IF like he does a brawler meta, he will fight him like he has other MA'ers whose powers and abilities he is aware of and logan will pull out his own secret MA techniques to surprise them in battle..
if you think i am wrong read more wolverine and see how he fought adapted to his fighting style with various other Ma'er he has come across example manifest destiny since it is a fairly recent story..
Not with the same agility, speed and acrobatic ability that I.F. has. And you guy's keep bringing up Psylocke. I've yet to see a scan of her amping her speed and strength. Where?
The last so called speed feat was really no speed feat at all. It was her using tk to parrie Rogues punches. Logan will not touch Danny before Danny touches him.
Her TK backed punches and deflecting is her TK amping and the scan that ppl showed you of her blocking rogues attack was in extreme x men read the story rogue had quicksilver reflexes when she foght psylocke if you read the comics not just the scan posted you will see it and know rogues full powerset in that storyline..
its PIS because wolverine always show resistance to blunt force trauma due to his adamantium and healing factor while taking hits from class 100 characters, why dont you see daredevil or cap or even your iron fist take shots from class 100 characters and being fine? if thats a PIS for logan why doesnt it happen to anyone else? not even the job aura master captain america himself? because its within wolverine powers and abilities to take those hits thats how he started his career by taking it to wendigo and hulk and being hit by them thats how most of his fight go and street levelers doesnt ko him often at all just watch spider-man hits him countless times and it did nothing or his fight with daredevil which does him nothing he cant be knocked out by a street leveler
a punch from a street leveler can hurt more then a punch from someone who can shatter the earth with his punches? sorry but that is retarded claim if you think that a hit from daredevil canmake more damage then hulk youarea moron evenif a punch fromhulk spreads more and takes more mass its still much stronger and i mean much much much stronger then a hit from a street leveler, i will ask you this what will hurt you more while wearing a bullet proof vast? being hit with a baseball bat in the chest or being hit by a f^ckin track? take your time on answering me this
Meh. Danny has busted up Luke Cage without amping. What else you got? Show me amping on par with Danny's chi amping. That's what I'm waiting for. Que jepordy music.
You're having a FIS attack right now. You can't claim that as a strength, durability and speed feat. It was tk plain and simple. Read the dialouge instead of looking at the pretty pictures.
no i am not. you realize that the majority of KMC sited psylocke being IF superior in almost every way?
i just dont feel like having this argument all over again with some one who is shutting himself off from past evidence and asking to see them again.. i am not playing this game with you.
You do see that, they've taken hits from such characters. Daredevil's fought with the Hulk before.
And Wolverine has adamantium, so hits in some places *won't* do much organ damage because the adamantium is absorbing the impact. It doesn't change that the human Martial Artists are plenty to hurt the *fleshy* parts.
Logan is not equally tough in all areas. Class 100s tend to land spread out or glancing hits at his toughest areas because they're just trying to get a hit. Martial artists do not do that, they aim for the places they can hurt and then hurt them, which they are not going to have much trouble in doing because Wolverine's guts are only protected by tough muscle not adamantium.
This isn't a hard concept.
This is also a concept backed up by tons of showings against these types.
Saying "But he can take hits from class 100s" doesn't change that, because that point has been addressed.
Yes, because the punch from the street leveler will hit his kidneys, while the punch from the one who can shatter earth with punches will hit adamantium which nullifies impact. You know, the adamantium? A material with a canon ability to take hits just like that, which doesn't cover all of it?
Do you deny that Wolverine has soft kidneys that are unprotected by adamantium? Or a heart made of muscle that can be struck between the ribs, against without hitting adamantium?
so wait a second if both daredevil and hulk will punch wolverine in the kidny you are saying that daredevil will hurt him more? Lol at your stupidity listen if daredevil will punch him the punch will be more precise but still it wont equal let alone be stronger then a punch from hulk because even with the fact that hulks punch spread up on a wider area its still a f^cking class 100 ground baster punch and the force of the impact will tear not only thekidny but everything inside wolverine which he is able to deal with due to his healing factor which heals him right away do you understand this?
wolverine is stated to be able to take all those hits from class 100 characters due to his healing factor and adamantium skeleton which is reasnible enough to see why he can take those hits and why if daredevil hits him in the face should break his hand and that wolverine can heal out of anything those guys can throw at him
you didnt answer my question what will make more damage being hit by a baseball bat in the kidny or being hit by a track in the kidny AREA
Oh and I'll grant you the scan you provided was a psuedo iron fist type of amp. But you and shrank are claiming her amp is superior to current iron fist's. Therefore you must show me her doing something that outclasses anything Danny did decades ago, let alone at his current level.
I'll give you a benchmark. Show me her doing stuff with her skill and PHYSICAL amping ability like;
-Ko'ing or at least staggering up to class 85 bricks.
-Dodging automatic gunfire at point blank range WITHOUT amping.
-Speedblizting people without amping
-deflecting multiple objects traveling faster then the speed of sound without amping.
Soloing, stalemating or at least holding her own against powerhouse teams without amping. i.e. The wrecking crew, or the X-men. Again, without amping.
This is all stuff that Danny Rand aka Iron Fist did DECADES ago well before his current power up. If you can show me Psylocke doing greater things than that, sometimes with just skill alone, then I'll say she's on the level that Danny was on 30 years ago. Until then, keep that c lister out of this battle.
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Mar 20th, 2010 09:29 AM
