Didn't Zoom get punched out by Kal-L in the same issue Prime killed him to death? And there's the part where he lost to WW in the lead-ins... and the billion punches he landed on Power Girl having... no effect.
Zoom's hh level fights apparently put him on a level as to where he obliterates Prime? Gotta go fast right?
I wonder if people are actually basing Zoom comparisons between him and Flash and Prime and Flash, or if they're just like "Ooh, his fastness is faster than quick!" to say he wins. Meh.
Zoom was punched by Kal, but Kal's punch barely even made him pause. As for his fight with WW: that was the same comic where he was punching her across entire continents with Superman-level punches-- so her inextricably lassoing/capturing him(apparently she can throw her rope ftl) is softened quite a bit by that.
He wasn't seen again and Superman moved right on directly after that when they were basically running through every villain. Unless we say he was taken down by Power Girl off panel... I'm OK with that.
And he couldn't even finish a blind Wonder Woman. And he was almost knocked out in 3 total attacks during that fight.
Zoom barely even pauses after Kal strikes him, and goes on to troll Wildcat and Power Girl before evidently zooming[] away. Don't know why in the world you'd think he was beaten by *someone* off panel..?
Zoom wasn't trying to 'finish' her. He was trying to make her betterrrr.
Because every villain there was getting demolished. They were stopping every villain they met up with. You think he was beating up heroes and they decided to just do nothing about it? The only way Zoom didn't get beaten is if he ran away. Which knowing how much of a coward he is, that might be what he did.
Barely even phased him? Yeah, it took someone blinking in and out at lightspeed a full page to come back. I wouldn't say he simply shrugged that off. And I was counting that punch as how many it took to almost KO him. Otherwise, he was almost knocked out in a punch and a slam.
But yeah, she hit him when he was unprepared... as opposed to every shot Zoom landing on WW being when she was unprepared. And not trying to kill her doesn't mean he couldn't have knocked her out... which he didn't with the hardest shots he's ever displayed on panel. But I don't get how him trying to make her better has any effect here seeing as that's his entire MO. Unless you're trying to say he holds back all the time in every comic.
And writing off the lasso as pis doesn't do anything for the durability he displayed there, or the lack of stopping power... which ironically enough, you managed to find a scene where he displays absolutely no stopping power at all to back up your case.
Superboy doesn't have a lasso. It's irrelevant. What is relevant is Zoom's failure to cause significant damage with shots, and his glass jaw. And considering he's limited in how he's going to win, that kind of puts a damper in him beating a pretty durable and somewhat quick dude in Prime.
He likely did run away. He certainly wasn't KO'd by anyone... And shrugging off a punch from Kal is very impressive, regardless of your low-balling.
You say "a full page" as though it was some huge amount of time. We are talking about a few seconds, at the most.
He typically does hold back against most foes. Although we know what he can do when he begins cutting loose: Superman-level+ punches, please.
Lol, I like how you're trying to turn Superman+Batman+WW+Hal ALL being unable to stop Zoom, into some sort of low feat for Zoom. Nice.
Dianna not sustaining injury from Zoom's melee is simply a testament to her durability, not Zoom's 'lack of stopping power'. He was still hitting her with Superman-level+ punches any way you cut it.
Also, barring massive amounts of PIS, I'm curious how you think Prime would be anything but a statue to Zoom? He has never shown speed close to Zoom's level... Not even remotely. What he has shown is that he's terrified of speedsters, AND that he is essentially useless against speedsters.
Yes, low balling. As opposed to the blatant highballing that's going on here. Has Zoom ever actually put down a durable being... like ever? Has Zoom ever shown durability anywhere close to being able to "shrug off" a punch by Superman ever again, or before? And considering how easily Zoom beats Prime and hits Superman hard, you'd think he'd be something of a threat to so many heroes in comics... but I digress.
It's a lot of time for someone who in your words is going to make Prime a statue.
So, your argument went from him holding back against Diana to him fully unleashing against Diana? Because that's apparently what he was doing against Diana. So... he failed to stop her when he was going all out is what you're saying?
I'm not questioning Zoom's speed. It's a good feat.
But it's a pathetic feat for his stopping power. Unless you think him failing to cause any damage to Batman, and Superman with quite a bit of punches is going to flow into him stopping Prime. Maybe you'll next tell me how him hitting Power Girl a billion or so times is how he's going to beat Prime.
And what you fail to realize is that Prime is way more durable than Wonder Woman. And you're using Zoom's highest showing of stopping power... where he fails to KO a blind Wonder Woman.
When Superman hits Wonder Woman, he breaks bones, and that's when she's expecting it. When Zoom hits Wonder Woman countless, countless times, with what amounts to cheapshots with every hit she's still relatively good to go.
If we're going to pretend he hits harder than Superman based on his best power showing and a statement when Wonder Woman is getting hit when she's blind, then apparently we should discount like almost every single one of his previous feats. All low showings. But let's take the best parts of those low showings and combine them into his Superman plus level abilities!
There we go, an actual basis for Prime losing as opposed to cherry picking random feats of Zoom when he's looking terrible and mashing them together.
But anyway, Prime was capable of reacting to the 3 Flashes once. And bleeding isn't beating anyway. As we saw him taken an extended beating by pretty much every Flash in existence and not even seem rocked once.
But, considering how low Zoom's durability is, and how he pretty much gets hit in almost every fight, he goes down hard.
Unless we use highest showings only for Zoom and combine them (IE, a billion Superman level punches). But if that's the case Prime survives universal destruction and punches into Zoom's timeline.
Basically, what this boils down to is has Zoom ever actually stopped a Superman level being (strength, durability) in comics? And if he has, can that be upscaled into a vastly more powerful Superman (although he's a big whiner)?
Apparently I'm led to believe he has... easily. So I'm curious Galan, when has this happened?
When has Zoom faced a singular opponent as strong/durable as Dianna outside that one showing? Usually he faces teams of heroes, and must divide his 'attention' between them. The one time he faced a single opponent of that caliber, he utilized Superman-level punches because, well, he could actually do so without killing the character he was trying to make betterrrr.
Huh? When did I ever say that Zoom "unleashed" against WW? I said that he "began cutting loose", but still wasn't trying to kill her. That's why he stopped beating her on Themyscira, and started beating one of the other random Amazonians... He was trying to make her betterrrr, not kill her.
He was toying with them, dood. His trollish dialogue in the scene is blatantly indicative of such. Do I need to blow up the scans in question to get the point across?
Lol, in an inner monologue to herself, Dianna said that Zoom's punches hurt MORE than punches from Superman. Given that she's been hit by BOTH parties, and had no reason to speak in hyperbole to herself, I trust her word more than yours. You not liking the fact that Zoom can hit that hard is irrelevant. The fact is: he can.
Also, when did Zoom hit WW "countless, countless" times? I saw him deliver 4 strikes.
"Pretend". Lol, because it wasn't established, right?
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Srsly, though... You're getting pretty riled up over this. Dunno why.
Are we acting like Prime's consistent beatings at the hands of Connor haven't happened? Are we acting like Prime has a sterling record against speedsters(of whom cannot even rival Zoom's speed themselves)? Are we acting like Teen Titans didn't happen? You see, it's pointless for you to low-ball when I can low-ball right back.
Also, you didn't address how Prime is touching a guy that makes Flashes look slow. I'm still waiting for that.
So, Zoom has never taken down a being even Diana level is what you're saying? And he has never hit anywhere close to as hard as Superman outside a singular showing where he failed to take out Wonder Woman.
But yeah, go ahead and post the scan that says this was the only time he stopped holding back for fear of killing someone, and that's the only reason he only has one showing of hitting that hard.
Then you're saying Zoom always holds back. Well, that's quite an ace in the hole isn't it? Too bad CIS is on in the forum though. Stop holding back would probably stop him from acquiring so many losses though.
But I still find it funny how you made a point of him holding back against WW but then turn around and say "Well, this is the one time he didn't hold back... as much."
So basically, the fight where he fails to KO Wonder Woman is the most he's went out in comics? So... he failed to KO Wonder Woman is what you're saying in his best power showing?
But your logic is that he always tries to make the heroes better. Like what he seemed to be doing there. And you know what... He's still hitting them. You're telling me he uses an immense amount of speed to hit his opponents, but he's not actually trying to hurt them... with a whole lot of punches? So what, he was pulling everyone of his super speed punches?
If Superman was hitting something that much, I have doubts he'd cause no damage at all.
And her inner monologue is retarded. Superman destroys her when he hits her. Breaks bones, blacks her out, etc. Zoom hits her and causes no injuries at all. Doesn't really come close to knocking her out. It's basically akin to anyone saying they're more powerful than Superman.
And it also doesn't help that this is like the only time it's ever cause this much damage. And it doesn't help that every hit amounts to a cheapshot due to her being blind. We are using one statement that doesn't make sense to conclude he always can hit harder than Superman. This would be like using Superboy retconning reality to say every single punch he throws is that powerful... although the sad thing is Prime has done that more than Zoom has... you know.
Not to mention, Superman would have obliterated a blind Diana if he was hitting her like that.
That fight had him breaker her wrist, dislocating her arm, punching through her hand, and just about everything in between.
There's also her taking a sunamped Superman punch that sends her from the sun that temp KO's her. But no, Zoom hits harder. She's been hit by Superman after all. This hurts more. Wait... wasn't Sacrifice like right before that fight? lol.
You can't count obviously then. He hits her 7 times assuming every hit is a single hit, and he bashes her head once. And considering his single looking hit was 200 hits against an Amazonian that failed to kill her, it's a little weird to conclude he was throwing single hits against Diana. And also his entire history... But I forgot, we're supposed to ignore every other showing of Zoom because of that one fight... yes, each of Zoom's hits are harder than Superman. And 200 Superman plus level strikes failed to kill an Amazonian. Logic.
"Established" in one showing... out of what like 200 appearances? Yeah, let's take that one showing as the gospel.
Honestly, I can't think of a calmer semi long post I've ever written calmer than the last post. But if it seems butthurt to you, then you must be right. I'm furious.
The funny thing is, you yourself are admitting you're lowballing. I however, am using some of Zoom's best feats that you are more than happy of using. And Connor was fighting with Prime in the same series Prime 2 shotted Superman. Connor was doing amazing against BL Kal-L. Unlike Zoom apparently, Connor has the feats. The speedsters basically has them hitting him as hard as they can and doing no lasting damage. When Bart actually drew blood against Prime he landed a huge cheapshot against Prime when he was full speedforced. When Bart came back in LO3W he said he was faster than ever and the Speedforce itself was amped. And he did pretty much no damage at all against Prime, Prime had also got hit by iirc red sun, and a place with no sunlight. I don't remember what happened in Tales besides Prime calling out Superman's manhood. And the TT one is a blatant low feat. Like the only one where he legitimately gets put down. Too bad it's not relevant to pillow fists Zoom though. And none of these feats are Jay rocking the dick out of Zoom.
Zoom gets hit... a lot in comics. According to your concession, Zoom has never even put down a Superman level being. Zoom has a questionable jaw.
All of which add up to him not looking so hot against Prime.
And I've repeatedly questioned how Zoom can jump from never KO'ing a Superman level being to jumping up in ability to easily beat Prime, so let's not play a questions game.
Prime will get hit, a lot. I'm not denying that. However, combining Zoom's complete and utter ability to get hit with Prime's strength and speed? It doesn't look so hot for Zoom.
But, in way of actually proving it?
Well, let's look at what you yourself have posted:
You posted Kal-L hitting Zoom. You posted a blind Wonder Woman hitting Zoom. You posted a blind Wonder Woman lasso'ing Zoom. You posted Goddamned Hal snatching his leg while he was in the middle of blitzing Diana. And then you posted Diana lasso'ing him AGAIN (even though he got out). And you expect to sit here and tell me he's going to make Prime look like a statue? All of these you used as good showings too.
So his reactions are a bit more than anyone you posted tagging Zoom. Prime has a good chance to tag Zoom. If Prime isn't winging punches, he's got a chance to one shot Zoom.
Why does Zoom win easily. Why does Zoom win at all is the better question, but what do you do...
The Flashes don't appear again after they were hit here, when even Robin was able to keep up with the battle: http://i43.tinypic.com/34euukz.jpg
Which implies they were KO'ed for a whole issue.
That whole issue kind of disproves the notion of Zoom beating Prime for that matter. Blasting through Superman. KO'ing Wonder Woman, taking a beating by everyone, etc. All while almost being at full power, and then getting hit by "a full red sun".
All in all, Prime's pretty durable for someone like Zoom to just simply knock out.
^ While I don't disagree with anything you've said, Superboy Prime doesn't like s-s-s-s-s-speedsters. If Bart Allen can send him packing three times over...
Yeah, that's one point I haven't disagreed is an actual good point for Zoom.
Prime turns into a girl at that point. Though it's less to do with physical, and more to do with his emo-ness. He has the capabilities, but his mind isn't quite there.
Which is why I think Zoom gives him problems. A lot of problems. I just don't think he can actually put Prime down, or cause any significant damage. A self bfr at best IMO.
KMC Community Forums
Nov 18th, 2013 11:31 AM
] away. Don't know why in the world you'd think he was beaten by *someone* off panel..?
