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thor and herc are identical equals imo, but i'd give herc a slight h2h edge, as was born out. thor>bill in h2h imo, as odin sort of set thor up for that loss. had thor been going for the kill in that fight, i'd say he'd win it. that said, each fight would obviously be very close, but i'd give herc a good 7/10 vs bill in straight h2h, but i'd give him 6/10 vs thor.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
i'd never argue that, only that the mace does increase the striking power and like i said, it prevents a lot of hammer blows, perhaps more importantly. regardless, bill wins if its weapons but anyone who thinks any of these fights would be a stomp doesn't know the characters involved very well.
Why are Hercules and Thor identical physical equals iyo? Because of many past stalemates? What about some moments where Thor physically outperforms Hercules? Do you consider them outliers and not really worthy of consideration? If so, then why would Hercules have a slight edge in hand to hand because of one fight (Which was canonically their second)?
Maybe, but if Thor is greater then Bill, it's because of a raw stat edge when push comes to shove, not some greater skill edge. Bill was the greatest warrior of his people and was intended to be Thor's equal in every aspect, even skill.
If Thor was going for the kill? Then the same could be said about Hercules as well, that's not really something to be held against Bill.
I think Thor and Hercules and Bill are about as equal as you can get, both in terms of stats and whatever perceived skill they decide to use.
Hercules got the edge over Thor for a reason no less contrived then Bill's win over Thor.
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Last edited by Rage.Of.Olympus on Dec 24th, 2013 at 06:11 PM
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
thor very rarely physically outperforms herc physically--ie--it;s extremely rare thor can perform a feat herc couldn't duplicate or perform. i can only think of one instance, and that was a lonnnngggg time ago. regardless, it's impossible to ignore the feat differences, but it's likewise impossible to ignore the simple appearance numbers and more importantly highlighted/solo appearances. their fights would indicate they are equal, their arm wrestle would indicate the same. in straight h2h though, i'd say herc has a slight skill edge, hence the 6/10 to herc imo.
you said bill was intended to be thor's equal, but he really wasn't intended to be a thor equal, it just sort of happened that he was. bill himself stated odin placed them in an environment that benefited bill. it seems odin WANTED bill to win that fight, and that's good enough for me. not sure how that is analogous to the herc/thor fight at all, tbh. what do you mean contrived?
i agree they are all relatively equal though, physically, but there is more, obviously, than just pure strength involved here.
If Hercules wasn't as equally motivated to survive - or willing to kill either of them - and/or just stood there and let them, sure.
It's obvious that both Thor and Bill can operate on a level higher than Hercules can, but it's also obvious that Hercules wouldn't be easily dispatched by either of them barring some wild or circumstantial tactics. I've read plenty of Thor comics to know that.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
wind and rain? not in this lifetime.... lightning might do it, depends if his mace would let him block it or not. godblast? ooc much....? bill WOULD fight him in a slugfest style, 9/10 fights. energy blasts could be blocked, storms aren't winning anything for him. best bet is lightning, but i'd wonder how many controlled lightning strikes bill has used. gb? never happen in this type of fight, c'mon.....
Obviously Hercules' lack of mobility and versatility are disadvantages against some of the foes Bill and Thor have faced (and Bill and Thor as well), but his track record and feats in general are too good to justify him being easily dispatched by either of them.
I can think of like two different instances where Thor has come out looking more impressive then Hercules in a physical encounter. Three if you count their battle with the First Man but I give Hercules some slack there because he wasn't at 100% due to moving Manhattan the day before but the sheer difference in performance was as if Thor was twice as strong. That's not counting the times Thor's gone above and beyond his limitations and showed strength greater then what Hercules could seemingly accomplish. Anyways, my point is that as rare as the case may be, it's happened and yet here you are arguing that Hercules would beat Thor/Bill because he once got the edge once in a fight.
He was in every way, in both courage and power. He was also the greatest warrior of his people before the augmentations. Yes, the environment was necessary so that Bill could WIN.
I mean contrived in that Hercules got the edge for absolutely no reason other then the writer believing he should (Because Thor had so many other powers) despite all history and canon saying otherwise.
You know what the irony is? In their past fights, THOR has actually used skillful maneuvers more often then Hercules has. It being their second meeting also doesn't make any sense as Hercules has never showed any edge again. I guess Thor must have done some training or something.
I think Bill and Hercules would be a stalemate in hand to hand. Anything else is about as likely as Thor overpowering Hercules in a hand to hand fight.
I love Thor but Herc strength fts piss on his fts and it is one of the best. Held Earth on his shoulders...pulled an entire state, held the universe up with nothing but brute strength. Don't see what the problem is...Herc is physically a high Herald.
Why is that surprising? Either Bill or Thor can win by summoning a powerful enough storm alone. His weather powers have proved effective even against Silver Age Mangog....
Sad as it is, Thor's rain is more powerful then Hercules. Lightning would do it. Even in that Blood Oath fight you're using as your main basis, lightning pretty much ended it.
When has Hercules' mace ever shown the ability to block the kind of energy onslaught that Bill can unleash? As a matter of fact, I'm trying to think of a time when it's been used to block any notable energy period.
The maneuverability and the sheer raw striking power wins it for Bill. The fight gets more and more lopsided the more capabilities you add such as lightning etc. Thor is content to simply swing his hammer the entire time out of honor, he doesn't even use flight, but Bill is not the same.
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Dec 24th, 2013 05:41 PM
