we're supposed to disregard spidey getting stalemated by three of these four guys, yet this ridiculous crap is supposed to be connon? hahahaha! I'm only saying this,,,,,,I'll concede if you will.
Anyway's yes scarlet got a victory of the v-man,,,,,but it was out of extreeeeeeeeeem amounts of luck.....When venom knew what he was dealing with the second time around, and was aware of the new weapons that scarlet was using, he scared and nearly beat the bejesus outa ben in venom: along came a spider.
But as a side note, In Venom:the run story arc. Wolvie held his own against a seriously beafed up venom, which wasn't reliant on it's host.
Also supposedly at some point (I'm not sure in what comic this happened,,,,but I took it from a series of cards that follows wolverines entire comic book life up until the early 90's but long before his adamantium was removed all the other events in the set are in continuity as ar as I can tell, yet I can't find this book) wolverine fought venom in a south american jungle......wolverine held his own until someone attacked Jubilee who happened to be around and kidnapped her, venom used the moment to capitalize and impale wolvie.
Also, Daredevil fought with venom and using his own enhanced senses, was able to avoid basically everything venom was throwing at him while hitting him in pressure spots. It did little more than piss venom off, but DD seemed conifident enough that he could dance around venom all night if he had to.
If bat's can spar with wonderwoman without having to resort to even using his devises or belt, spiderman should be about as scary as an english cow. Also in Bat's belt,,,I forgot are friggin bombs,,,,,what happens when bats starts lobbing a bunch of (basically) grenades at spidey that explode on impact? he doesn't even have to hit spidey, he can just hit the ground next to spidey and let the explosions take care of the rest. DON'T underestimate the batman!
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
Spider-Man dissasembled....... organic webs, bug talk....... possibly some kind of telepathy insects and other bugs........ apparently (according to that story) 1/3 of the human population has the "insect gene" ....... he may or may not be able to read these people's minds
Gender: Male Location: Huntington Beach, California
Wolverine held his own against the symbiote....not Venom. And no one can say how beefed up it was because it was only the symbiote. Wolverine had to slice and dice like a mad man just to keep it off him, but it's not like the symbiote was punching and kicking Wolvie.
In that same story arc Wolverine was nuked down to his skeleton and completely healed in the next panel.
Venom would eat Wolverine for breakfast anyday of the week.
i think it's safe to assume that the symbiote was more powerful than it's been in a long time. throughout that series that symbiote stood up to multitudes of punishment and explosions and such that would have rendered eddie down and out....or at least very injured. Anyway's i think the sybiote was slightly more dangerous due to the fact that it wasn't reliant on it's host,,,,,eddie can get stabbed, but fighting just the symbiote....well you might as well be fighting air.
And i don't care if wolvie survived a nuke......is it ridiculous (beyond just bad) writing? Hell yes! and i realize that,,,,,but seccret wars is full of all sorts of goofy nonsensical B.S. but that don't stop every spiderman fan from bringin it up in an SM thread does it?
besides wolvie was sporting his super pants, didn't you see those things? THEY survived a fight with venom, a Nuke, and a plasma explosion, without shredding one tear.....if this was wolvie/w superpants,,,,,it wouldn't even be a contest.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Gender: Male Location: Huntington Beach, California
The symbiote is weaker when it is not bonded with it's host....that's why the symbiote bonds with it's host in the first place.
Venom has taken a multitude of punishment equal to the amount of punishment the symbiote alone took. The symbiote doesn't have fighting skills, it doesn't have Venom's quickness, nor did it have a means of creating something hard like a fist.
What happened in Secret Wars between Spiderman and the X-men was completely legit. No one on the team they assembled could touch him in such close quarters. Cyclops didn't shoot, Storm couldn't use her powers. It was basically Wolverine, Cyclops, and Nightcrawler lunging and missing. Had Spiderman took a punch square in the jaw from Colossus and remain unfazed....then I would consider it crap.
Wolverine held his own against Venom in a mini with Nightmare and again in Venom - Tooth and Claw. They are displayed as being pretty equal in their fights.
Ok we have the secret war example on the one side and then hundreds of examples of Spider-man getting hit by street level heros on the other side. I'm thinking the later holds more weight.
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Gender: Male Location: Huntington Beach, California
It doesn't hold more weight at all. Spiderman NEVER gets hit by run of the mill crooks like you're making him sound. He regularly beats the crap out of them and never ever gets touched.
The Punisher, the Kingpin, and Craven have all been regulars in Spiderman comics throughout history. These characters have proven themselves to be above the normal "street" hoodlums that you're using as your example.
I'll take the thousands of times Spiderman has dodged bullets, arrows, lasers, and general lethal threats with his physical ability over the handful of times Spiderman has been hit by a street level character anyday.
(Now somebody will bash me for saying such a blasphemous thing, and will ask me if I actually have read a Batman comic in my life, and will end with saying something like : Batman is THE man, he is the Bat, he is the Darkness and so on...)
__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
i believe in no man called Bat,
just listen to the beating on his face,
There's no chance he could win it now,
He'll be crippled when the sun goes down,
I believe in no man called Baaa-aaaaat,
ooooooooohhh
Since the spiders have 15xreflexes of a normal human and their adversaries are just peak-humans in this aspect, the latter ones would move like in slowmo for the two.
No combatskills and experience HOWEVER superior could compensate this(simple physiological fact), not to mention that only one 10tons-class-hit would be enough to knock out everyone exept Wolvie. And my favourite clawswinger could become heavily webed. Since that material is quite elastic and so he couldnīt move properly with any noticeable strength, he would not be able to use his claws effectively to cut himself free. After a while he would simply suffocate(something his healingfactor canīt compensate).
BUT, since the spiders are fighting against 4 of the most popular characters in comic-history, they would ofcourse NOT win in a comic. Logical thinking about the actual effects of superpowers isnīt exactly popular among authors or fanboys, whereas overrating and adjusting powers, where supposedly needed, is!
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Gender: Male Location: Huntington Beach, California
Who here can actually define "peak" human?
All the "peak" humans have taken beatings from far stronger opponents than a class-10. I have a Spiderman/Captain America comic where Batroc and some alien monster from the "dark dimension" team up against Spidey and Cap. The monster hits Spidey and Spidey says he's never been hit so hard before in his life. Then Captain America solos the monster while Spidey takes on Batroc.
I've also seen all of these characters go against opponents who are faster than what people believe to be "peak" human, yet they don't move in "slow motion" by comparison.
Until anyone can define a limitation of a peak human....I think we should stop using the term.
I perfectly agree with your observation Linkalicious, which only underlines the second part of what I wrote!
Agreed on the "peek"-term, too!
Question! Where is the point in giving characters powers, which are mathematically measured (15x this, 20x that, 40tons here, 100tons there etc.), when in the end they are adjusted up and down as needed, sometimes to a degree thatīs nearly travesty?
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THE CORPS IS MOTHER
THE CORPS IS FATHER
I perfectly agree with your observation Linkalicious, which only underlines the second part of what I wrote!
Agreed on the "peak"-term, too!
Question! Where is the point in giving characters powers, which are mathematically measured (15x this, 20x that, 40tons here, 100tons there etc.), when in the end they are adjusted up and down as needed, sometimes to a degree thatīs nearly travesty?
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agreed about the peak thing LINK. LOL but it might put the boards into chaos....without levels for comparison (i.e. dbz) people will actually have to logically think out reasons why their characters would win. lol.
Anyways I think that the symbiote thing is debatable. I mean technically shouldn't have the severed tongue portion just died off on it's own? Anyway's in that series that symbiote didn't really need a host per say.....it needed hosts only as a source of food. Hell. Venom's symbiote is viewed as insane by allthe other symbiotes due to the fact that it wants to bond at such a level that it perceives this "emotion" as a need. (although I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, I'm just making the point that the symbiote really isn't weaker without it's host....but it does need hosts for food.) venom isn't faster than a speeding bullet the symbiote was. YOu can hurt brock by gutting him....you can't do the same to a symbiote. Like I said you might as well be fighting air. I'd rather be hit by something hard like a fist than wrapped up in a literal current of symbiote. Just by comparison the sybiote was easily AS dangerous if not more. it was even clever like brock on he battle feild.
That aside this is getting way off topic. Wolverine held hs own against a beefed up symbiote at least. THAT aside, We're not trying to imply that spiderman would be gettin hit by a bunch of street thugs though it has happened too (i.e. the enforcers) we just think that there are faaaaaaarrrrr too many characters at street level fighting speeds that have hit spidey in the face and then some. This is not just a handful amount either it's happened hundreds upon hundreds of times. Spidey got his big red ass handed to him by vulture in close quarters combat.....is this laughable? yes, I would agree with that (>smirks< ) but when people start treating his spidersence like some form of telepathy it just gets ridiculous. Spidey's been surprised before, despite his spidersense and the fact that he dodges bullets,,,,which is nearly irrelevent since the rest of the crew dodges said bullets as well.
Even in this 4 on 2 the spidey's are just against the odds to heavily here. they may not be outclassed per say but overwhelming numbers is going to do the job on em.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
"overwhelming numbers"?????..... you have heard of the sinister six......
Spider-man has taken out larger numbers of powered foes than this before..... and this time there are two of them....... these two beat the hell out of Carnage with no "prep time" (and without webs...... i think) ...... i doubt the four heroes on the "peak" team could take him down between them without additional weapons
they had venom's help.......carnage wasn't......himself.
and finally, batman took down carnage by himself already. so what's your point?
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
KMC Community Forums
Apr 13th, 2005 12:52 AM
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
