ya, I agree 2. Will is ok. I feel bad 4 him cuz he had to watch his fiance` kiss another man!
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"Get that out of my face." "It's not in your face, it's in my hand." "Get what's in your hand out of my face." <3 set by yours truly
hehe! im sry i just have to put this cuz i love homestar!
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"Get that out of my face." "It's not in your face, it's in my hand." "Get what's in your hand out of my face." <3 set by yours truly
alright. i finally finished reading all this! let's see.
regarding Will, I personally think Orlando does a fantastic job at protraying him. Of course, he's not the BEST actor I've ever seen but I think he does a great job. The character of Will is supposed to be uptight. People who say he hasn't changed are crazily mistaken. When we first meet Will, what's he like? He's quiet, respectful, noble, uptight, and shy. He won't call Liz "Elizabeth". He always thinks about other people and tries to stay in his place. Through movie 1 he's faced with problems, and although he still respects other people he's willing to do things he wouldn't of every thought of- and he begins to call Liz "Elizabeth". He was about to shoot himself to save her. Then by the end Liz calls him a pirate. Then in movie 2- he's dressed that way because he's getting married! You want him to dress like a pirate with eyeliner at his wedding!? thats nuts! lol. Alright. ANYWAYS. After that, he goes off to find Jack compass. When Jack wouldnt give it to him he puts his sword to his neck- he's not thinking about Jack- he's thinking about himself and Liz. So he's getting more piraty. You see him leading the crew on how to beat the beastie- so he's not shy anymore. By the end of movie 2 he talks kind of disrespectfully to Liz where as in the first one he wouldnt even say her name. I think he has really changed a lot.
but of course, i am a Jack/Liz fan too. lol. But I do like Orlando's character. Without him, there wouldnt be half a story.
But if Liz ends up with Will- My foot is going to have a nice little conversation with the writers of pirates of the caribbean's THROATS.
that was all brilliantly put. nice work. hahahaha. i liked the part about what will should wear to his wedding (even though i still think his outfit was ugly). i agree with you on all of that.
Gender: Female Location: at the second star to the right
He's well on his way to becoming a pirate, according to Jack, and is Jack ever completely wrong? He's usually dead-on, especially about people's personalities. Will might be a little slower at coming over to the "dark side" than Liz, but he crosses a few lines and yet is a decent guy all around. I am really rooting for Jack and Liz because I think they are very well suited for each other, but Will CANNOT and does not deserve, to be left all alone with only some witch telling him to cut out his heart.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
No he's probably never going to embrace the pirate life..there were lost of clues in movie 2 that suggest its not what he will ever fully embrace..not like Liz has..His father is probably the main reason why Will is never going to become a proper pirate..
Will is actually more suited to the role of "Honorable" man who does stupid and bad things in the name of "good"..like Beckett and Norrington..He's more like them..hence the fact he was working for them in the beginning and said nothing to Jack. Also in the next movie apparently he strikes a deal with the EITC to get Jack kidnapped by Sao Feng..or something like that..then Jack persuades him to take Liz instead
It's the characters like Will who ALWAYS become the pretty much disliked character by the end of the trilogy..the third Wheel...the one who is always honorable and honest...TEND to do something incredibly stupid and risky before it ends...they are sick of being toe good guy all the time and getting walked all over...
will has a habit of doing stupid things when he thinks its the right thing to do..Jack even picked up on this in move 1..he screws things up for Jack ALL the time..I have a strong feeling that he is going to betray everyone in the next movie.
I think that Will is going to become VERY close to the edge by ripping his heart out but his FATHER will stop him..he saved Will 3 times in the latest one for a reason..because he's going to do the same thing LATER but on a larger scale.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 14th, 2006 at 10:04 AM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
SHE sent him to sure death because she REALISED that she LOVES him after he came back for her..that meant the WORLD to her.....So she realises that she actually has STRONG FEELINGS for him and she realises that he has them for her too BUT on a higher scale than he usually does for his women..he didn't LEAVE her like he left his other women DID HE? SHE MEANS MORE TO HIM than just a woman he wants to screw...
She is AFRAID of accepting Jack..she is in MASSIVE denial over it all..so what does she go and do? SHE GETS RID OF THE TEMPTATION OF JACK..he has become a major threat She forces herself to be with Will by chaining Jack up even if its not what she REALLY wants...look at how HARD she is finding it to LEAVE Jack there. HECK she even goes in for another kiss but fights to restrain herself...
That moment where she leans in to kiss him again is CRUCIAL its the point where the audience is SUPPOSED to realise that THIS betrayal is COMPLETELY different to what happened last time on the beach..last time she betrayed him with NO REMORSE...THIS time she probably thought she could do it again but OHH NOOO she has STRONG feelings for him this time..its not so easy for her...and you can see that its not. Remember its only the middle of the story..she has plenty of time to accet the feelings in the next movie..
I'm really surprised SO many people cant see whats really going on in that scene..she's having one MOTHER of a hard time leaving him..She didn't do it in a cold hearted way at all..YES it was selfish..but JACK WANTED HER TO DO IT.,,he was LOVING the fact she was doing it..could you not see his face?He was SMILING at her..he was silent, comletley awestruck. He was SERIOUSlY turned on by the whole situation..I'm pretty certain that this whole experience with Liz chaining him up made Liz seem a WHOLE lot hotter to him than he previously thought..it means he HAS all of ger now...not just physically but mentally too..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 14th, 2006 at 11:00 AM
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
I agree with LovelyOne...and I know Will has changed alot, but as LovelyOne says - Will will never totally accept the Pirate LIfe....But Will tries to still do things the honorable way....Liz and Will have changed and IMO grown in different directions...sorry guys, but I just don't feel the connection between Liz and Will...there is no chemistry...Sure Liz loves Will - he was the only guy in her life worth loving until the day she was rescued by a Pirate - a notorious Pirate...who has turned her life upside down, who she has an attraction for....some of you guys just don't get the clues...go read the thread ALL CLUES POINT TO JACK AND ELIZABETH...and maybe you will understand....there are so many clues, so many symbolisms.....if you truly look into the depth of the story and read between the lines you will see it....Will's heart will not be broken...I think after seeing the kiss he is a little disillusioned with Liz anyways...and once he finds she scarifies a man's life for others....he will see that she has totally changed...plus why would he want to marry someone who secretly yearns to be with someone else...
Also, yes, Jack is happy by himself....but that's because Jack is a Happy Person...he has accepted who he is...he doesn't need someone to make him complete....IMO....(I know the hat theory), but that doens't mean he can't love and can't live happily ever after with someone...and why can't they live the Pirate Life together...Liz has already proven she can handle it....And whoever said Liz is too fragile...excuse me but are we talking about the same Liz who sword fights, takes on the Kracken, chains a man to a Mast to his certain death.....Okay, whatever......But the again, maybe I'm wrong, maybe all those signs and clues put in POTC 2 was just to take up time.....they don't really mean anything and if that's the case, why did they even make POTC 2 because honestly the whole story of POTC 2 is about Jack Sparrow's debt and his "erotic and perhaps dangerous" attraction to the Adventurous Elizabeth Swann (this is how is was explained on the Johnny Depp website)....So in other words, if all the scenes in POTC 2 with Jack and Liz were just to take up time, then the movie could have been over in 30 minutes....what a waste of time Disney put into this movie if this PITATE Trilogy is not all about Jack Sparrow and his attraction to Elizabeth Swann....and what that does to him
Oh by the way, I am a big fan of romance novels....and this kind of reminds me of one....many, many (in fact 95%) of romance novels start off with a rouge, who sleeps around with tons of women, and then falls in love, and in the end stays devoted to one woman (the heroine of the book). It happens all the time...To me, Jack just became much more appealing in movie 2 when he showed that he can be affected by a WOMAN - now that's what I call sexy.....
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
sooooo yesterday i was grocery shopping, and i stopped in the book eisle, and they had this supe cheezy version of dead man's chest written for like, 8 year olds. So i paused to read the end, wondering how they would explain the kiss, hahaha.... and it was actually quite poignant...
the way they summed it up for the kiddies went something like,
"the crew decided to try to make it to land. As everyone was loading the boat, Elizabeth stayed behind with Jack. She convinced him to stay aboard the ship, and chained him to the mast, so that the rest of the cew could escape. "Pirate," Jack said, with admiration. "
Thats rather sweet, eh? Liz is the only one who has any real persuasive power over Jack, IMO. its fun.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
and it shows us that he IS happy about what she just did!! and NOT angry at her
LOL you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO right about the whole importance of the Jack/Liz moments...of COURSE they meant something MOST OF THE FILM was about them..the ENDING of the movie revolved around them..so the NEXT one is going to as well!..some people just WISH thy didn't mean anything because they are either angry fan girls of Orlando Bloom or JEALOUS fan girls of Johnny Depp
I still disagree about the whole "Jack being happy" thing..Jack is only a happy person when he has his possesions there to TELL him that he is a happy person...when they are missing he becomes a nervous wreck..on the island..he was at his weakest moment,,he had NOTHING no hat, no shoes, no rum. He became a scared little child...
..he needs a living person there to make him feel TRULY happy and complete IMO..and Liz actually SHOWS HIM that he can be happy without his material possesions...If you said to jack "leave the pearl" in movie 1..he would have become a NERVOUS wreck...this time...HE HAS LIZ and guess what....he decides to leave it to rot...He once loved his material possesions so much because he had NO ONE close to him to love and take care of...in movie 2 he DID have that person and he starts to not CARE about his material possesions he starts to care ABOUT THAT PERSON.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 14th, 2006 at 03:17 PM
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
I personally think Jack would be quite heartbroken if he lost Liz to Will...he REALLY needs her to feel truly happy..NO person on this earth can say material possessions make them happier than having true love and friendship..people NEED love and companionship..What makes jack any different?..Without love and care from another person you are nothing. You are a SHELL of a person "Money cant buy you happiness" in other words.. material possessions and prostitutes..aren't going to make Jack happy in the long run..You can already see that hey are not enough for him in movie 1 & 2..
Do you REALLY think that Jack can truly happy if he ends up with absolutely NO one to care for and no one to care for him in return?..he needs true love..Movie 2 made this quite clear actually..
Will isn't going to end up on his own if he loses Liz..he will have his FATHER..Jack would end up with NO ONE if he loses Liz..and that is the cruelest thing that can happen to a person...
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 14th, 2006 at 03:44 PM
Yes I support the theory that Disney wasted a whole bunch of time if this trilogy isnt about Jack and Liz and what will happen between them. We KNOW what will/should/could happen between Will and Liz, they only needed about a half a film to settle that question (and honestly, people were more interesting in the undead pirates)... but with Liz and Jack, it would take a whole trilogy to explore their complex, mysterious, relationship.
I DO think Jack is complete by himself. I think thats important for someone entering any relationship- that they not be looking to complete themselves, but that they are complete by themselves and therefor can give to another person out of that. Elizabeth also strikes me as a non-needy character... while Will, i dont really know who he is without Elizabeth. That bothers me. Perhaps some people see Will's need for Liz as romantic or sweet, but i find it annoying. Give me a guy who knows who he is, and can be that person... ya know?
I love it that Jack IS becoming more and more heroic, as he gets closer and closer to Liz... but the thing we all love about Jack is that he IS a pirate, so i hope he wont lose that completely.
Jack seems happy-go-lucky to me... really go with the flow, a social chameleon, the hero of his own story type thing. People just keep screwing up his well-made and carefully researched plans. hahaha.
And as Jack said, it isnt the possession of the ship that makes him happy- its what the ship represents: freedom.
When the ship is doomed at the end of 2, Jack sees that even though he loves the ship, it no longer represents freedom, or it no longer can provide him with freedom. Can Liz? I dont know...
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
agreed
I still disagree... we can see on many occasions that without his possessions he is in fact a shell of a person..he is NOT happy when he is absent of the inanimate objects in his life that he can cuddle up to..Its clear that he NEEDS something more than material possessions to feel eternally happy. Before Liz came into his life..all he cared about was his material possessions because he had no person to love and care for. If you took those away from him he is almost in tears like a little kid who loses his mother..He seems to think that the pearl, the hat, the rum is all he needs in life to feel happy...when its clearly NOT the case..his compass goes crazy even AFTER he has all of this..he's still not complete, his heart is not complete. don't you find it amazing that as soon as Liz comes into his life..he actually starts to let go of his possessions...and embraces HER? He's finally found what his heart truly wants in Liz...and he actually is no LONGER confused at the end once he realises he has her...
I think that Jack is and always will be a pirate..but he's not exactly a TRUE pirate as is anyway becausehe is a good man, he puts people before himself..thats why he is the character we all love..He is doing the same thing with Liz..he is caring for her..being the hero for her YET he is still a pirate..which is what SHE has actually fallen for..
Good point..but its not just freedom that the ship represents...ANY ship can represent that..it actually represents something that he used to think was most important..his Pirate/brave image...but now he doesn't really need to keep using objects to show that to people t because...1) Liz already KNOWS that he is a brave man even WITHOUT his material possessions and 2) he actually DOES show that he is REALLY brave to the people around him in movie 2..especially Liz. Jack is a person who has lived his life as someone who thinks he's happy but is actually pretty incomplete without a real companion by his side...
I'll say it again: No one can truly be happy with material possessions and material possessions alone with no one to actually love or be loved by..I think movie 2 was actually making that point with Jack..Jack is beginning to realise it IMO.
the old saying "money cant by happiness" is famous for a reason...
Last edited by LovelyOne on Aug 14th, 2006 at 04:11 PM
eh, i dont think jack is that dependent on his possessions. he loses the pearl and seems okay for 10 years. he is concerned about his compass (because its flipping magic) and his pistol in 1 (cause he needs it to shoot barbossa)... but other than that, I still see Jack as go with the flow, that he will pick up whatever is around him and if he loses it, no big deal.
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Aug 13th, 2006 10:06 PM
HENRY!!!!
All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
