It seems in my absence you have tried your hardest to lower Phoenix as much as possible in the cosmic hierarchy, due to the threat it presents to your Beyonder fantasies. Not gonna happen my friend.
For the White Crown Phoenix to be able to fatally wound the 616 universe with but a thought ( by amputating its future) of course she is beyond Eternity.
For Jean to go on and manipulate at an atomic level the entire 616 universe in the palm of her hand as if it were nothing, well that just confirms the point.
Eternity is not the 616 universe. Eternity is the embodiment of the 616 universe. That is a BIG difference.
He came into being AFTER the universe was born, embodying the chronal axis:
Phoenix didnt deal with an MBody or an aspect, she manipulated the ACTUAL universe in the palm of her hand like putty. She casually rendered the 616 to the brink of death as a part of her Phoenix duties. Quentin Quire even said to her that he wouldnt bother fixing the universe she'd nearly killed suggesting that any single universe is nothing to a Phoenix avatar. The duties of the Phoenix Force itself however are beyond any single reality as shown. It has avatars operating in all realities.
Phoenix is conclusively greater than Eternity and certainly beyond Galactus.
Still trying to sell this garbage?
Phoenix has contained the power of the M'kraan crystal, which itself is multiversal in power and scope.
The crystals power may have only leaked out into 616 on that occassion, but had Phoenix not stopped it it would have gone on to have destroyed the multiverse like it did the previous one. So while her actions first and foremost saved the 616 universe, ultimately she saved the marvel multiverse. All of that achieved by one avatar, i think you know what that says about the Phoenix Force itself.
The universe is dependent on Phoenix not the other way around. Have you not read my post or any recent x-men story arcs pertaining to Phoenix?
Phoenix in New X-men 154 fatally wounded the 616 universe by casually amputating its future. Did Jean die? Was the Phoenix Force troubled? No. Because the duties of the Phoenix Force are beyond any single universe. When Jeans actions left 616 on its death bed Quentin Quire said he wouldnt bother to fix it and and beckoned Jean into the white hot room. Jean out of compassion (because 616 was her native reality after all) decided to fix it, with the guidance of the Consciousness.
To be able to hold the universe in the palm of your hand and casually decide its fate is evidence to anyone with common sense that Jean and of course the Force are way beyond Galactus' league.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Ok,
We know that by Phoenix cutting off the Future, the Infection, which was Sublime, was destroyed, but the EVENTS that took place, have NOT been changed.
And NOW, Phoenix is asking what's next? Or more specifically, "Now What"?
It tells Jean, "This is Now" (yellow energy in her hands)
Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future"? (please log in to view the image)
It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it" (the Future)
It continues to say, "Patient will die unless internal heart damage repaired"
The "Patient" is the FUTURE still at this point apparently.
Which is why Phoenix says, "But it didn't have to END like that, my Friends didn't deserve that." (some even died), the ONLY thing that has ENDED is the Future since Phoenix Amputated it.
It then says, "No, Turn around, No End yet, there, Turn, Here before always, HOSPITAL White Hot (It's a hospital for Universes) (please log in to view the image)
This is ACTUALLY the process taking place of a FUTURE being Repaired, because it HAS NO Future since Phoenix Amputated it.
Jean loses concentration and she is reminded to "Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE" (please log in to view the image)
"Heart got stuck", (Because she Wasn't concentrating) Turn (some kinda White Hot Room code word for, "keep on fixing")
Now after that, we end up with this.
It tells Jean, "Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training, NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..." (please log in to view the image)
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms?"....... of WHAT Atoms?
The ONLY action I've seen, is A Future being Repaired.
It's actually talking about the FUTURE that was just Repaired.
This leads to this, and as you can read, has nothing to do with the former.
It tells Jean, "It lost it's parents when Unity broke out across the Megasystems" (please log in to view the image)
Phoenix is CLUELESS as to WHAT this is, or WHAT to do with it.
Jean says, "Did I have to FIX something that was dying? What is it?"
It tells her, "A badly wounded Orphan Universe...Phoenix work"
What the hell does that mean?....Jean Grey is just as LOST as I am.
"That Henry's heart's broken, that Scott succumbs to loneliness", ect..ect..
It's just telling Jean the outcome of "Here Comes Tomorrow,"
the Future that is Now,
this is WHY it's a "badly wounded Orphan Universe" due to "Phoenix Work"
What is "Phoenix Work"?
Amputating the Future and then Repairing it.
I thought it was an injured Universe she repaired atom by atom, but EVIDENTLY NOT.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Read scans Above.
Bios?
Get them out of here.
An Aspect meaning ONE Universe, from the Multi-verse (Multi-Eternity)
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Multiversal? Again, NOT On Panel WHEN Phoenix Repaired it.
"An explosion that scatters stellar mass out across a NEW Virgin Universe"
Exactly A UNIVERSE...but NOT a Multiverse. (please log in to view the image)
On Panel it's a Universal threat...
Here Phoenix ends the threat of Sublime to reality by cutting away the future it infested.
Jean is told by the Phoenix Consciousness that she was successful in her mission. Jean then wonders what fate holds for friends. She wonders if this apocalyptic future she just got rid of is what they are destined to face. The Consciousness tells her that that future was partly the result of her getting too emotionally involved in that reality (presumably as opposed to just carrying out her Phoenix duties) and that her actions almost resulted in its death. She says her friends dont deserve that. While Jean is on the verge of giving up, the Consciousness tells her theres hope still and directs her to the White Hot Room, "the hospital", where it tells her she can heal the wound to reality by growing it a more desirable future to replace the one she had just cut away.
In the city within the M'kraan crystal Phoenix is told by the Consciousness that the telekinetic control of all of those atoms isnt as easy as it sounds in training. The 616 universe over the panels then materializes in Jeans hands. While we werent told the specific action Jean performed here we do know it involved the manipulation of the 616 reality at an atomic level and we know to what end she performed the action....the growing of a better future for 616 as outlined earlier.
Jean performs this action under the guidance of the Consciousness and seems disoriented. While she seems to have an idea about what shes doing she doesnt know why she's doing it, despite having been told seconds before. Readers of the arc know this is due to her premature hatching from the Phoenix egg. Another thing to bear in mind is that as documented in the title when things get too much for her to cope with when she gets too caught up in her power the Phoenix Consciousness talks to her ( as we're seeing in this scene) and sometimes takes over completely.
The Consciousness taking over when Jean started performing high level things is something that happened consistently in the title. With her having only the slightest awareness of her actions or the reasons behind them afterwards.
That provides an explanation for Jean appearing to performing an action whilst at the same time appearing to not know exactly how she’s doing it or why.
Jean then peers into 616 and is confused by what she sees and asks what it means. The Consciousness then relates to her the things which lead to the Here Comes Tomorrow future and then Quentin Quire steps in to tell her that to avoid that future, to replace the one she cut away she has to symbolically water it (the universe) with her hearts blood, i.e to cut all ties with the reality she got too involved with and will Cyclops to live his life and forget about her.
While we don’t know what process Jean performed specifically we were told earlier to what end it was being performed (the replacing of the future she’d cut away) and what it involved (the control of the universes atoms), therefore we have a feat for Phoenix.
It is speculation to assume that preventing the events of “Here Comes Tomorrow” could have been achieved by anyone merely by time traveling and mind control. For a start merely altering events causes a divergent timeline, it doesn’t wipe out future events in a timeline. Therefore the problem of Sublime would still be present and would still be a threat to reality. Hence the reason why Phoenix completely extracted Sublime from reality before getting rid of the future it had infested.
Either way even if you were right and the growing of a new future could have been achieved as simply as you described, that doesn’t change the fact that Jean brought the 616 universe to its death bed by casually cutting away its future. It also doesn’t change the fact that Jean demonstrated control of an entire reality at an atomic level in the palm of her hand. The feats are still there.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
From X-MEN #154
A Bacteria called Sublime, took over Hank's (Beast) mind, and a portion of Phoenix's power
Here Sublime thinks he will control creation with Phoenix's power and his own. (please log in to view the image)
But actually Phoenix was disinfecting the Bacteria while Sublime was killing other X-Men
Here Phoenix says, "Some KIND of Bacteria Colony gone rogue...I had to Amputate the whole Future" (please log in to view the image)
Jean is told, "Phoenix DISINFECTION Successful"
Jean then asks, "Now What"?
Ok,
We know that by Phoenix cutting off the Future, the Infection, which was Sublime, was destroyed, but the EVENTS that took place, have NOT been changed.
And NOW, Phoenix is asking what's next? Or more specifically, "Now What"?
It tells Jean, "This is Now" (yellow energy in her hands)
Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future"? (please log in to view the image)
It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it" (the Future)
It continues to say, "Patient will die unless internal heart damage repaired"
The "Patient" is the FUTURE still at this point apparently.
Which is why Phoenix says, "But it didn't have to END like that, my Friends didn't deserve that." (some even died), the ONLY thing that has ENDED is the Future since Phoenix Amputated it.
It then says, "No, Turn around, No End yet, there, Turn, Here before always, HOSPITAL White Hot (It's a hospital for Universes) (please log in to view the image)
This is ACTUALLY the process taking place of a FUTURE being Repaired, because it HAS NO Future since Phoenix Amputated it.
Jean loses concentration and she is reminded to "Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE" (please log in to view the image)
"Heart got stuck", (Because she Wasn't concentrating) Turn (some kinda White Hot Room code word for, "keep on fixing")
Now after that, we end up with this.
It tells Jean, "Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training, NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..." (please log in to view the image)
"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms?"....... of WHAT Atoms?
The ONLY action I've seen, is A Future being Repaired.
It's actually talking about the FUTURE that was just Repaired.
This leads to this, and as you can read, has nothing to do with the former.
It tells Jean, "It lost it's parents when Unity broke out across the Megasystems" (please log in to view the image)
Phoenix is CLUELESS as to WHAT this is, or WHAT to do with it.
Jean says, "Did I have to FIX something that was dying? What is it?"
It tells her, "A badly wounded Orphan Universe...Phoenix work"
What the hell does that mean?....Jean Grey is just as LOST as I am.
"That Henry's heart's broken, that Scott succumbs to loneliness", ect..ect..
It's just telling Jean the outcome of "Here Comes Tomorrow,"
the Future that is Now,
this is WHY it's a "badly wounded Orphan Universe" due to "Phoenix Work"
THAT'S WHAT that meant ALL this time?
I thought it was an injured Universe she repaired atom by atom, but EVIDENTLY NOT.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
So now I understand why this joker says, "if you want IT to GROW a New FUTURE to replace the one you cut away" (please log in to view the image)
He also says, "And they said I was to tell you to HURRY"
Implying she can't do this AT WILL, but with in a TIME LIMIT.
He also says, "If it was me, I'd let it DIE" (please log in to view the image)
I was fooled into believing he was talking about the Orphan Universe", but in fact he's talking about the Future Phoenix wants to replace it with.
So Phoenix decides to give it a different Future, so that Henry's heart won't be broken, and Scott does not succumb to loneliness", ect..ect.. (please log in to view the image)
"Live Scott"
Now how did she do that?...How did Phoenix ALTER the Future?
Why? Because you say so? Bios are an official source and are completely valid as supportive evidence if what they say is in accordance with on panel events. If a bio entry can be shown to be conclusively wrong beyond a doubt (i.e Namor lifting only 85 tons) then you can dismiss that specific point in the entry. You cannot use such instances to dismiss all bios as a relevent source. Sorry bro.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Pure speculation. Eternity says THE aspect of all there is. He is presenting himself as a representation of the universe. A point that is much stated throughout comics, as is the point that Eternity came into existence AFTER the universe was created. He is an abstract being an embodiment, while he is tied to what he embodies he isnt actually that what he embodies. Phoenix manipulated the actual universe.
Your "supporting" scan doesnt conclusively show a multi Eternity. The line " We cannot be overly occupied by any one aspect of our reality"really is not good enough. The line is referring to the Goddess who just happens to be the subject Adam and Eternity and Infinity are talking about.
The only contradiction stems from your poor interpretation of the few scans you've seen from the comic. Try actually reading the relevant issues so you know what youre talking about.
As stated and depicted Jean demonstrated control on an atomic level over 616 in the palm of her hand. That conclusively places her and obviously the Phoenix Force way beyond the likes of Eternity and Galactus.
The M'Kraan crystal was retconned during Legion Quest into a multiversal nexus of realities and the multiversal devestation the unleashing of its power would cause was well documented within said saga.
That does not define the full capacity of the M'kraan crystal. Thats merely Jean saying she saved the universe from the M'kraan crystal which is true. Had she not contained the crystals power in 616 however as later documented the power would have swept across the multiversal collapsing it all. So while she first and foremost saved the universe she ultimately saved the multiverse. Your point is as ever irrelevant.
Sometime i think you are intelligent and then at times you say things which really casts major doubt in mind.
Here is the definition of an aspect:
aspect
n 1: a distinct feature or element in a problem; "he studied
every facet of the question" [syn: facet]
2: a characteristic to be considered
3: the visual percept of a region; "the most desirable feature
of the park are the beautiful views" [syn: view, prospect,
scene, vista, panorama]
So yes the goddess is an aspect of Adam. She is a facet of his being, his good side. However does that then mean that the Goddess cant be an aspect of Eternity who himself is the embodiment of all there is along the chronal axis?
You do not speak for everyone. You are conclusively wrong on a variety of points as i have highlighted and for the remainder you are speculating. Not good enough.
Answered previously. You are but one individual with a major inability to interpret scans without bias, supposition and speculation. Your problem. Unfortunately your constant spewing of this garbage makes it everyone elses as well.
Take a time out and have a think about what youre doin son.
So youre denying that Eternity is the embodiment of all there is along the chronal axis then?
Thats all this comes down to my friend.
The Goddess is a part of Adam Warlock and Adam Warlock is a part of Eternity. As the embodiment of all there is along the timeline the Goddess is a part of Eternity.
Your argument is poor. Youre clutching at straws. Away with you---->
__________________
Last edited by GalacticStorm on Sep 16th, 2006 at 06:58 PM
KMC Community Forums
Sep 13th, 2006 03:40 PM
