Yes he does, they might be equal when it comes to terms of thinking and strategizing the flow of CQC, but Batman at the same time is counting all variables and intangibles of environment, etc, shown on a consistant basis. Every breath Batman takes is strategized to near-perfection.
Really, how does Spidey do if Batman EMP's his brain?
He's got that in his arsenal, even without prep.
Does he .. . dodge it?
And in this thread, Batman has 2 full days to prepare for this fight.
Batman's taken on Superman with less.
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Hulk has been beaten by streetlevelers many times. Fact. That proves ma skills >>> Hulk right? Plus what does Wolverine have to do here? Wolverine wont get a hole in his head if Spider-man punches him, Cap on the other hand will.
Believe or not I dont care, but you couldnt give a single reason to support your point, all you said was "Cap beat Spider-man before" yay. Spider-man beat Firelord before, by your logic that makes him herald level.
Lets do math. Ill put this simple.
Spider-man vs Captain America.
rules: (no PIS, no CIS, non-holding back Spider-man who doesn't give a crap that he's fighting a living legend blah blah the hero of blah blah)
strength: Spider-man
speed: Spider-man
agility: Spider-man
reflexes: Spider-man
durability: Spider-man
skills: Captain America. (Yippie!)
Winner: Spider-man 10/10 ok 9/10 if Spider-man suddenly dies from a heart attack)
Dont know much about the guy but they said he can break "DC adamantium", wonder how many years of ma training it would take for Cap to do that.
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Last edited by SamZED on Jul 20th, 2009 at 09:37 PM
Cap has totally dominated spidey in h2h more than once, even upgraded armored versions. You can preach on about his strenght and speed all you like but this is what has happened on panel. Spidey is a kid and get schooled by daddy Cap 10/10. Same with uncle Bats if he has prep.
Wolverine is a very bad example to uses as a cases for batman beating spiderman. Wolverine is physically superhuman in ever area. He never been suggested as anything but that in any on pannel comic story line. He also posses a healing factor, inhuman levels of durability aside from his adamtium skeleton.
Capt though better example then Wolverine is still not a good example for batman cases. Capt is the next step in human evolution, it impossible for any human to reach his physical level through training.
bet you bats was pissed that he was shown up he probably started planning on how to take out pete since he is overpowered and bats gets jealous of such ppl.
aside from that i dont see bats beating spidey with his standard gear. aside from PIS/CIS spidey shouldnt lose to bats unless we use spidey's kryptonite which is MA fighters..
giving bats 2 days prep he can probably pull out some gadgets without going overboard and calling in the batplane to take out spidey.
but if bats doesnt know anything about spidey i dont think he could properly prep for him.
Same with uncle Ben if they ever fought lol ok I admit it, you win. If Spider-man was holding back, doubting his every move while fighting a man he admires since his childhood he would lose to Cap. But that hardly gives Cap any credit.
If Spidey fights without holding back Cap gets dropped on his ass in the first two seconds of the fight if he's lucky, if he's not he gets a hole in his head. Same with Batman.
Fact #1 Spider-man can punch his head off.
Fact #2 Parker has every advantage over him to do that, except for the skill.
Fact #3 If you think that single Cap's advantage is gonna stop Spider-man from punching him in the face you simply need to read more Spider-man books or at least check his respect thread because you knowledge of what he can do is clearly limited by his bad showings. http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/...5skills1mt5.jpg http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/...5skills2qe6.jpg http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/...5skills4ot7.jpg
Me thinks that if Pete can beat the crap outta hundred warriors with guns and swords without getting cut or shot ONCE he sure as hell is skilled enough to punch Steve or Bruce in the face and that's all it take if he's not pulling his punch.
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Look it does not matter if he pulls his punch or not because he has been shown repeatedly UNABLE TO CONNECT with Cap`s face. Master h2h combatants read spidey like a book anticipating his moves no matter how strong or fast he is, knowing his moves before he does himself. They block or dodge his attacks and smacks him up good once they get close and personal not giving him opportunity to counter. Like someone stated, trained martial artists seem to be Parkers kryptonite, he has little to no defense against them.
Beating up large numbers of armed warriors without getting hurt? Please any top tier MA in comics must have done this at some point.
117? Nope, they haven't. And just HOW does it not matter? If he's pulling his punches it means he's HOLDING BACK, fights carefully making sure his attacks aren't too strong because he doesn't want to seriously injure his opponent. You're saying that doesn't matter? That gives Cap a big, no a HUGE advantage that he wouldn't have had in a fight against bloodlusted Spider-man. Its easier to block his attacks, its easier to anticipate them. So just stop bringing their previous fights as examples, they only prove that Cap can hold his own against Spider-man who's fighting at like 20% of his actual abilities. And all that blocking and anticipation works great.. in theory. When it comes to fighting it is the speed reflexes and strength advantage that matters the most. Seriously, this whole debate is RIDICULOS. This is basically me saying that Spider-man wins because he has EVERY possible physical advantage over Cap, and you saying that despite all his advantages Spider-man doesn't have THE EXPERIENCE to connect ONCE. Doesn't that sound ridiculos to you?
Hell Parker WITHOUT his Spider powers is an experienced fighter.
In this scan he lost his powers. http://i072.radikal.ru/0901/33/fdc510de1f1f.jpg
And you're saying this guy doesn't have what it takes to connect? http://s47.radikal.ru/i115/0901/1d/f8157694782d.jpg
And once he does it's either this (if Cap is lucky): http://s46.radikal.ru/i112/0901/9c/25c4d1edb317.jpg
Or this if he he's not lucky and if Spider-man's bloodlusted: http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/69...kinblack024.png
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Last edited by SamZED on Jul 21st, 2009 at 09:12 AM
Try reading what I post. He has been unable to CONNECT. It doesn`t matter if he pulls his punches or not if all he hits is air or an unbreakable shield. Pulling your punches does not make your strikes slower or less accurate for anyone who has even a little experience.
Wrong. Skilled fighters hit many times harder, last much longer and are much harder to hit than untrained ones.
Cap`s skill > Spidey`s physical advantages so, yeah.
Spidey`s experience is not worth much, he has stated himself he relies on instinct. Cap tried to tell him the truth, inctinct gets you killed.
Yes it does, It doesn't matter HOW experienced you are, if while fighting you're AFFRAID you might seriosuly hurt your opponent and pulling your punches to avoid it that makes your attacks many times less effective and slow.
Yeah, in real life superior fighting skills is a good advantage if you're fighting a stronger and faster opponent. But not so when it comes to people with superpowers where gaps between speed and strength can be HUGE. In our case IT IS the speed and strength advantage that matter more than training. Cap's skills give him an advantage but not big enough to make a difference. Here's a rough example. If I had say Quicksilver's speed and reflexes and Bane's strength and I had to fight Batman H2H. Give me a day to practice with my powers and I'd rip Batman's head off before he could do anything no matter how skilled he is. So Cap training is great but means jack if he's fighting someone who can kill him with a punch and has every possible advantage and has 10 years of fighting experience to make sure he connects at least once.
Cap doesn't have spider powers, he cant tell, so no, instinct wont get Pete killed, in fact if it wasnt for instinct Parker would've been dead many years ago. You're claiming that Spider-man wont be able to hit Cap ONCE, while im proving that he can. The fact that Im forced to prove SOMETHING is funny because he has EVERY advantage over Cap. It is YOU who's supposed to try and prove that Cap is gonna be able to last 3 seconds without getting his head punched off by a stronger, faster, more agile opponent who has better reflexes and spider sense to rely on. So if you wanna keep this debate - go a head, but this time show me proofs that Cap has speed advantage big enough to avoid getting hit ONCE cause im calling bs on this. And dont bring up their fights again because they prove jack, just random proofs that he's too fast and skilled for Spider-man to connect ONCE.
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Azula: My mommy didn't love me so I'm going to burn down your village.
Last edited by SamZED on Jul 21st, 2009 at 10:32 AM
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Lol, I've been reading your posts and have been wanting to say something about them for a while now but I've been too busy. You haven't really shown anything but one sided scans. "Cap and Logan have put him on his ass repeatedly", show's you don't read any Spiderman or know what you are even saying. Two can play the one sided game.
Did you read when Logan got tossed out the window? Or when he was webbed up? Or secret wars?
You want to bring in only low showings? I'll bring in my high showings, he beat Thor, someone who has been fighting for a long time.
Also MA skills do not directly equal fighting ability, that thought alone is absurd. MA is NOT the only way to fight, and I'm saying that as a trained fighter. Fighting "skills" only bridge the gap somewhat, but if the physical skills are too steep they don't matter. The world's best fighter doesn't beat the world's largest elephant. That's common sense. Not to mention you're really over-hyping MA skills, there are black belts that get dropped LOADS of times by people on the streets because the MA people haven't been in a fight before and have only been training in a dojo, experience matters more, and fighting is about surviving. I hope you do realize that comic crossovers are going to try to make the characters look closer match, and that means making the stronger character much weaker (not using his abilities, Precog, or WEBBING (something he has) in a fight. I've been having this debate for about half a decade now, I know what I'm on about.
Wrong, a fighter with a little training can easily pull his punches without sacrificing speed and accutracy. Light to none contact sparring a very common in in several sports. It is very easy to learn even on your own and spidey has lots of practice in it.
Wrong again. High level MA characters with human attributes does quite well against superhumans in comics. Especially aganinst untrained ones.
Quickilver is irrelevant to this topic.
Cap does not let him get that punch. Also 10 years of fighting like spidey actually limits him to a certain level since he relies on instinct and never develop solid fighting basics. In other words he reinforces bad habits and wasteful moves as well as never learning to mask his intentions brodcasted by his body language. Which is why good fighters HAS beaten him, ARE beating him and WILL continue to beat him unless he improves himself.
True, but if he learned to use it better and even ignote it at times when fighting he would do better. All good fighters know how to harness their instincts instead of being controlled by them.
Cap has put Spidey on his ass consistently. Clearly dominating him as if he were a little child just by the use of his skills. Live with it. Spiderman`s stats does not magically change this FACT. Your logic is seriously flawed.
Fair enough, however Spidey can still be knocked out by someone with human range strength and who knows how to punch. His attacks can still be blocked/evaded, at least in comics.
Black belts are not worth anything, you have six yers old parading around with them now.
Anyway MA characters in the comics tend to do vell against superpowered ones, even outside crossovers.
Last edited by Mshinu on Jul 21st, 2009 at 11:24 AM
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Jul 20th, 2009 09:02 PM
Plus what does Wolverine have to do here? Wolverine wont get a hole in his head if Spider-man punches him, Cap on the other hand will.
Yes it does, It doesn't matter HOW experienced you are, if while fighting you're AFFRAID you might seriosuly hurt your opponent and pulling your punches to avoid it that makes your attacks many times less effective and slow. 
